Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 911 replacement? - Page1

Nov 8, 2004 7:20:29 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002

911 replacement?

Fellows,
I need to run something by you and see what your feedback (reaction) is on this idea.

It's been awhile that I have been contemplating to post the following but truly have not had enough time to sit down and write it up.

I also understand that there have been many discussions and threads regarding the looks and the performance of 911 (various models 996, 997...) but one thing that I have been playing around with in my mind is that may be Porsche is developing a new 911 replacement a la 356 to 901 in 1963.
By the advent of the new chief of design and being criticized by almost everyone regarding 911 performance and looks, I would think Porsche officials are cooking up something in the background.

Everyone says that Porsche is too concerned about damaging their market by the possibility of introducing a new car to eventually replace the 911 but isn't it what they did when replacing 356 with 901 (911)? And didn't it turn into the biggest success?

Now, what do you all think of this idea? Does anyone think that Porsche is developing a new comer (not 4 door stuff) to eventually replace the 911 which essentially gives them the freedom to gradually get away from the 6 cylinder engines and move up?

Next
Threads

Nov 8, 2004 8:06:22 PM

Joost: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Dordrecht , Netherlands; Posts: 8054, Gallery; Registered on: May 3, 2004; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: 911 replacement?

Well, I fear that they can't keep evolving the 911 forever and ever. I love the lines of it, but it will get lower and wider every generation

, untill it is as flat as a dime. So, finally, they wil have to come up with another model, and probably that will have 8 or 10 cilindres form the start yeah. Maybe that model will be introduced after the 50th birthday of the 911? Would make some sense. that would mean two ore three more generations of 911. Well, let's hope that the 911 will be with us for a long time to come!
-Joost-

Next
Threads

Nov 8, 2004 9:09:42 PM

racerx: Rennteam VIP; Loc: 1985 porsche dealership , Bouvet Island; Posts: 8751, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 27, 2004; Reply to: Joost

Re: 911 replacement?

All indications point to a new model to be produced along with the 911. I could see what joost says happening to the 911. But porsche wants to be a bigger company with a wider slice of the buying public to keep revenues steady if one part of the market is soft. So i think you will see 911's as long as they are profitable, while also seeing a broader offering. They have to be happy with cayenne adventure and i think they want more.

Tom

Next
Threads

Nov 8, 2004 9:21:14 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: 911 replacement?

Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
By the advent of the new chief of design and being criticized by almost everyone regarding 911 performance and looks, I would think Porsche officials are cooking up something in the background.

Ron, did I miss something? Who criticizes performance and looks? We? Here on the forum? On other forums?
Fact is: people love how the 997 looks, almost everybody I spoke to find it to be the most beautiful 911 ever.
Performance? Pretty impressive if you ask me, at the same level with the Ferrari 360 Modena and slightly better than the new SLK 55 AMG. Not to speak about the fabulous handling performance, resulting in a under 8 minutes track time on the Nordschleife.

And why should Porsche get away from the flat 6 engine? The GT2 produces almost 500 HP from this "old" engine and it meets all worldwide emissions laws. This engine is good for much more power, especially when the direct fuel injection comes...

You're making a logical mistake. The 911 is a model designation for a bunch of different models. If you want more power and better performance, get the 997 Turbo. If you want better handling, go for the 997 GT3. If you want a more aggressive look, go for the 997 GT2 or get one of the Aerokits.

Can you really give me a good reason why Porsche should abandon the 911 model line? I don't see any.
Ron, do me a favor. Testdrive a 997 Carrera S for a few hours.

Next
Threads

Nov 8, 2004 9:32:27 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: 911 replacement?

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
By the advent of the new chief of design and being criticized by almost everyone regarding 911 performance and looks, I would think Porsche officials are cooking up something in the background.

Ron, did I miss something? Who criticizes performance and looks? We? Here on the forum? On other forums?
Fact is: people love how the 997 looks, almost everybody I spoke to find it to be the most beautiful 911 ever.
Performance? Pretty impressive if you ask me, at the same level with the Ferrari 360 Modena and slightly better than the new SLK 55 AMG. Not to speak about the fabulous handling performance, resulting in a under 8 minutes track time on the Nordschleife.

And why should Porsche get away from the flat 6 engine? The GT2 produces almost 500 HP from this "old" engine and it meets all worldwide emissions laws. This engine is good for much more power, especially when the direct fuel injection comes...

You're making a logical mistake. The 911 is a model designation for a bunch of different models. If you want more power and better performance, get the 997 Turbo. If you want better handling, go for the 997 GT3. If you want a more aggressive look, go for the 997 GT2 or get one of the Aerokits.

Can you really give me a good reason why Porsche should abandon the 911 model line? I don't see any.
Ron, do me a favor. Testdrive a 997 Carrera S for a few hours.

RC,
Didn't mean that the 911 (997) is a bad car at all; but I was looking at the History of the company and noticed that Porsche gradually moved from 356 to 901(911); don't you think eventually they'll have to make another step up?

As you said GT3, Turbo or GT2 are fantastic cars without a doubt, but will ever Porsche move to a different setup in the future?

RC, the only reason I have not taken a 997S for a test drive is that I may end up buying one

but I need to

.

Next
Threads

Nov 8, 2004 10:04:40 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: 911 replacement?

Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
RC, the only reason I have not taken a 997S for a test drive is that I may end up buying one but I need to .

Wise decision, Ron. Your wife will surely appreciate it.
My wife went nuts when I told her about the 997.

At some point, I'm sure that Porsche will definetely move on and replace the 911. But I think they do it with caution, like maybe establishing an additional sportscar model next to the 911 to see how it sells.
Personally, I think Porsche should keep the 911 name but at the same time move on to a more radical design and engine setup. On the other hand, the flat six engine in the rear is actually what makes the 911 that special. And I don't see a flat 8

or V8 engine in the rear of a 911.

Next
Threads

Nov 8, 2004 10:09:12 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: 911 replacement?

Quote:
RC said:

Wise decision, Ron. Your wife will surely appreciate it.

You got that right

But I have already started to tell her that I may have to spend a lot of money for the maintenance on my current car and it would be wise if I get something with warranty on it

. Of course she looks at me like I'm on mental medication

.

Next
Threads

Nov 8, 2004 10:24:21 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: 911 replacement?

Ron, you already are on mental medication. There is no better mental medication than a 911.

Next
Threads

Nov 8, 2004 10:52:00 PM

a4ep: Newbie; Loc: Charlotte, NC; Posts: 30, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: 911 replacement?

Wasn't the 928 supposed to be the 911 replacement? I think they will have to come out with another sports car and if the 911 starts to take a dive in sales then and only then should it be permently replaced with the newer car. Maybe in 20 years or so

A4EP

Next
Threads

Nov 8, 2004 10:58:49 PM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 911 replacement?

First of all, the 911 fills many different roles for a variety of owners and does so spectacularly. That it does this is amazing. The problem is that it HAS to fill these roles. A GT3 owner is very different than a standard 911 cab owner. Personally I think a rear engine in a rwd car is much better than a front engine because you want the weight on the driven wheels (and so have greater grip on corner exit). Ofcourse mid engine is better still because you get weight on the rear, but you have a better polar moment of inertia. My point is that the rear engine isn't a weird design that happened to work, it's the secret to the 911's success, because it allows for better sporting characteristics while maximizing interior room and practicality. This, paired with wonderful engineering, have made the 911 the legend that it is.

The problem I see in the future is that the GT3 models are too far any from the standard models in terms of purpose. GT3s don't need to be practical, they need to be light and handle well. The other issue is that we are in a hp war so someday a normally aspirated flat six may not cut it and a larger motor shouldn't be hung off the rear. Porsche may continue to build the 911 until the end of time and make 911s work for both the average buyer and the track day crowd. There is nothing wrong with this. It just seems that if they could replace the car with two separate models, that each one could move further toward the buyer's needs. A more practical model could make the rear seats more useable while the more racy model could go mid engine and lose the rear seats. This will never happen though because Porsche wants to cut costs by having the same model appeal to everyone. Again, GT3s may top my list for best cars on the planet for as long as they make them, even if the basic design is suboptimal, the execution is always better than the competition and so makes up for it.

Next
Threads

Nov 9, 2004 12:24:10 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: a4ep

Re: 911 replacement?

Quote:
a4ep said:
Wasn't the 928 supposed to be the 911 replacement? I think they will have to come out with another sports car and if the 911 starts to take a dive in sales then and only then should it be permently replaced with the newer car. Maybe in 20 years or so

A4EP

Right and it failed miserably. Porsche can only survive if they offer something different, something special compared to Mercedes, BMW and even Ferrari. If they start to build SL/6series type cars, I'm not sure they're gonna survive that. The Cayenne was a different story, it is really a very special SUV, especially regarding handling but also performance (Turbo). I just hope that the 4-door sports sedan will be special too. Competition is tough (M5, CLS55, etc.).

Next
Threads

Nov 9, 2004 2:59:15 AM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 911 replacement?

RC is right, its TOUGH to make a PORSCHE, much easier to make a sports car;)

Next
Threads

Nov 9, 2004 3:13:39 AM

racerx: Rennteam VIP; Loc: 1985 porsche dealership , Bouvet Island; Posts: 8751, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 27, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: 911 replacement?

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
a4ep said:
Wasn't the 928 supposed to be the 911 replacement? I think they will have to come out with another sports car and if the 911 starts to take a dive in sales then and only then should it be permently replaced with the newer car. Maybe in 20 years or so

A4EP

Right and it failed miserably. Porsche can only survive if they offer something different, something special compared to Mercedes, BMW and even Ferrari. If they start to build SL/6series type cars, I'm not sure they're gonna survive that. The Cayenne was a different story, it is really a very special SUV, especially regarding handling but also performance (Turbo). I just hope that the 4-door sports sedan will be special too. Competition is tough (M5, CLS55, etc.).

RC I hope you mean the decision and not the car. What failed was the decision to try to replace one car with another that cost 40% more at the height of a recession and gas crunch. In todays dollar the 928 would sell at $165,000. During the time that it enjoyed popularity and was still backed by the movers and shakers at P it sold over 5000 units a year. Its been a couple of months since i saw a sales breakdown from P but i don't think they are selling 5000 units of any model stickering above that figure.

There is a lot more to the story but that is enough.

Tom

Next
Threads

Nov 10, 2004 7:11:09 PM

SoCalHoosier: Veteran; Loc: California , United States; Posts: 896, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: 911 replacement?

Maybe in Germany, but here in US the car hasn't been received nearly as well.

...and the US is the majority of Porsche's customer base.

Next
Threads

Nov 10, 2004 8:21:59 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: 911 replacement?

Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Fellows,
I need to run something by you and see what your feedback (reaction) is on this idea.

It's been awhile that I have been contemplating to post the following but truly have not had enough time to sit down and write it up.

I also understand that there have been many discussions and threads regarding the looks and the performance of 911 (various models 996, 997...) but one thing that I have been playing around with in my mind is that may be Porsche is developing a new 911 replacement a la 356 to 901 in 1963.
By the advent of the new chief of design and being criticized by almost everyone regarding 911 performance and looks, I would think Porsche officials are cooking up something in the background.

Everyone says that Porsche is too concerned about damaging their market by the possibility of introducing a new car to eventually replace the 911 but isn't it what they did when replacing 356 with 901 (911)? And didn't it turn into the biggest success?

Now, what do you all think of this idea? Does anyone think that Porsche is developing a new comer (not 4 door stuff) to eventually replace the 911 which essentially gives them the freedom to gradually get away from the 6 cylinder engines and move up?

I just read (on this forum) that Porsche sport car sales are down 33%. But for the Cayenne the company would be experiencing major marketing issues.

RC in the US the 997 is becoming a marketing disaster.They are already being discounted including the S model. Most car critic's love the performance of the car but have difficulty distinguishing it from previous models. The phrase I read which was most apt was" boring perfection".A toilet bowl brush is "boring perfection".

Clearly the 911 is near its end and the sooner they put it to bed the better. Then Porsche can step up and use its engineering skills to build an attractive car which also performs well i.e. mid-engine smaller version of the CGT.

Top
Threads

Board	Subject	Last post	Views	Replies
Porsche	SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)	4/17/24 7:16 AM Gnil	762927	1798
Porsche	Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos)	4/7/24 11:48 AM Boxster Coupe GTS	435622	565
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021)	5/12/23 12:11 PM W8MM	260645	288
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	3/12/24 8:28 AM DJM48	257663	323
Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	80974	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	5322	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	872526	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	807939	3868
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	387403	1526
Porsche	GT4RS	4/17/24 8:53 PM Gauss	385487	1452
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	368504	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	366493	797
Ferrari	Ferrari 812 Superfast	4/21/23 8:09 AM the-missile	289394	550
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	4/11/24 12:32 PM Ferdie	286282	668
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	259158	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	237386	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	225426	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	219968	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	167043	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	138984	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	115728	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	107495	685
Others	Valkyrie final design?	4/28/23 2:45 AM Rossi	99329	219
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	83636	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	74898	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	53202	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	24704	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	20958	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19228	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16469	120

Crown

Forum - Thread

911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Re: 911 replacement?

Forum

Boards