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    Nov 6, 2004 12:08:44 AM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    I just got my 19'' winter wheels mounted, including the Porsche approved 17 mm spacers on the rear axle.
    Highly recommended, it improves the look of the "tiny" 255 tires compared to the 275 summer tires I had before.
    Handling performance with the winter tires is surprisingly good, same applies to traction on wet and dry surfaces.
    Drive comfort is slightly better than with my 20'' summer wheels but the winter tires make a little bit more noise.

    Here are some pictures.

    Nov 6, 2004 12:09:28 AM

    RCA
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    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    2.

    Nov 6, 2004 12:10:00 AM

    RCA
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    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    3.

    Nov 6, 2004 12:17:34 AM

    FixedWing
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I just got my 19'' winter wheels mounted, including the Porsche approved 17 mm spacers on the rear axle.



    Interesting to see a car manufacturer actually using spacers. I can imagine more than a few people are going to have trouble getting their cars through the TUV inspection with these spacers in place.

    However, it makes perfect sense to move the wheel 15mm if the rim width is changing by 30mm and the offset on the wheel is identical to th summer wheels.

    Christian, you might want to make absolutely sure that you have the wheel bolts you will need to mount the spare should you have a flat. You might find that the new wheel bolts will be too long.

    Looks good! I think you will have a lot of fun in the snow.

    Stephen

    Nov 6, 2004 12:30:16 AM

    RCA
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    Reply to: FixedWing

    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    The Porsche 17 mm wheel spacers are TÜV approved for the Cayenne. Only the 20'' SportTechno 10J rims and the 18'' Turbo rims aren't approved for using spacers.

    The car looks much better with the spacers, especially from the rear. With the "tiny" 255 tires, the Cayenne looks somehow funny from behind without the spacers.
    Can you imagine that a short while ago, only 235 tires were approved for the Cayenne?

    I actually wanted to go for the 18'' wheel set but I might be tempted to retrofit the powerkit next year and I wanted to be prepared for winter time too because the powerkit requires 19'' wheels as a minimum size.

    Fun in the snow? I'm actually pretty curious about it. I never drove the Cayenne Turbo in deep snow and I'm looking forward to it, thanks.

    Nov 6, 2004 1:26:49 AM

    HighDesert
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    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    Is this a new version of the 19" wheels like the new version of the 20" wheels required for the power kit?

    The Cayenne is quite enjoyable in the snow. It is even more fun on ice.

    Nov 6, 2004 8:24:44 AM

    FixedWing
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    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Fun in the snow? I'm actually pretty curious about it. I never drove the Cayenne Turbo in deep snow and I'm looking forward to it, thanks.



    Just looking at the tyres I suspect that they might not be quite as good as some of the winter tyres designed for lighter sedans in ice, cold and thin snow but that your Cayenne might have an advantage in deep unplowed snow and mud where the large block pattern will be helpful as well as the ground clearance of the Cayenne.

    Are you able to fit tyre chains on the Cayenne? I would be very curious how well they worked.

    You definately need to find some unplowed mountain passes this winter.

    Stephen

    Nov 6, 2004 10:23:36 AM

    ALDOM
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    Reply to: FixedWing

    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    Here is my Cayenne with 20" winter tyres and rear spacers. The spacers are 17 mm official from Porsche. The car looks as good as with summer tyres.
    /uploads/59167-CIMG0752_Größeändern.JPG

    Nov 6, 2004 10:25:34 AM

    ALDOM
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    ALDO
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    Reply to: ALDOM

    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    and here you can see the rear spacer
    /uploads/59168-CIMG0750_Größeändern.JPG

    Nov 6, 2004 6:12:51 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: ALDOM

    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    Here is my Cayenne with 20" winter tyres and rear spacers. The spacers are 17 mm official from Porsche. The car looks as good as with summer tyres.



    I hate it to spoil your enthusiasm but there are few minor problems with your setup:
    1. I get the feeling that you're "swapping" tires (meaning: removing the summer tires, mounting the winter tires and then again the summer tires on the same rims). With 20'' tires, this is not only dangerous, it is insane.
    2. the Porsche approved winter tires have the same N-designation as summer tires and this is very important due to the specific weight and sporty setup of the Cayenne suspension. Especially with the possibility to change ride height and damper stiffness, this is even more important.
    Standard winter tires are not tested on the Cayenne. I can assure you that it is a HUGE difference between a N-designated winter tire and a standard winter tire of the same brand and type, even in the same size.
    3. 275s as winter tires are great on dry pavement when it is cold outside but they are the worst thing on snow and ice. Even the 255s aren't that good on snow and ice but customers asked for it, the original setup was actually 235s to provide maximum safetym, traction and braking power.
    4. the low profile of the 275 tires you're using and the very sensitive 20'' SportTechno rims make it a huge risk for damage during driving through snow. A stone or other obstacles hidden below the snow can damage the tire/rim seriously. Definetely not recommended for snow driving, especially in the mountains where there is a lot of snow and you don't know what is below it exactly.
    5. 275s winter tires are not approved for your Cayenne Turbo, check with your "Fahrzeugschein" (car document). Due to newer EC regulations, car manufacturers can't force customers to drive a certain tire brand. But the tire size, speed index, etc. is still mandatory! If you got a document from your dealer that the 275s have an approval from the tire manufacturer for the Cayenne Turbo, this is OK.

    The only reason why I took 19'' winter wheels was the 500 HP powerkit. Otherwise I would have chosen the 18'' Turbo wheels with the same tire size (255s) in 18''.
    Whoever "advised" you on your 20'' winter wheel setup, was a bad advisor.

    Nov 6, 2004 10:27:00 PM

    ALDOM
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    ALDO
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    Here is my Cayenne with 20" winter tyres and rear spacers. The spacers are 17 mm official from Porsche. The car looks as good as with summer tyres.



    I hate it to spoil your enthusiasm but there are few minor problems with your setup:
    1. I get the feeling that you're "swapping" tires (meaning: removing the summer tires, mounting the winter tires and then again the summer tires on the same rims). With 20'' tires, this is not only dangerous, it is insane.
    2. the Porsche approved winter tires have the same N-designation as summer tires and this is very important due to the specific weight and sporty setup of the Cayenne suspension. Especially with the possibility to change ride height and damper stiffness, this is even more important.
    Standard winter tires are not tested on the Cayenne. I can assure you that it is a HUGE difference between a N-designated winter tire and a standard winter tire of the same brand and type, even in the same size.
    3. 275s as winter tires are great on dry pavement when it is cold outside but they are the worst thing on snow and ice. Even the 255s aren't that good on snow and ice but customers asked for it, the original setup was actually 235s to provide maximum safetym, traction and braking power.
    4. the low profile of the 275 tires you're using and the very sensitive 20'' SportTechno rims make it a huge risk for damage during driving through snow. A stone or other obstacles hidden below the snow can damage the tire/rim seriously. Definetely not recommended for snow driving, especially in the mountains where there is a lot of snow and you don't know what is below it exactly.
    5. 275s winter tires are not approved for your Cayenne Turbo, check with your "Fahrzeugschein" (car document). Due to newer EC regulations, car manufacturers can't force customers to drive a certain tire brand. But the tire size, speed index, etc. is still mandatory! If you got a document from your dealer that the 275s have an approval from the tire manufacturer for the Cayenne Turbo, this is OK.

    The only reason why I took 19'' winter wheels was the 500 HP powerkit. Otherwise I would have chosen the 18'' Turbo wheels with the same tire size (255s) in 18''.
    Whoever "advised" you on your 20'' winter wheel setup, was a bad advisor.



    For 1: my Porsche dealer has suggested me to swap my tires.
    2: The dealer told me that the tire is Porsche approved, I have to verify it again
    3: on my 996 turbo the 275s felt no so bad
    4: ok, that could happen, but on normal streets not so often
    5: same as 2:

    And again, the PZ in Pforzheim belongs to the best onw in Germany. They have a high reputation. But I will check agaon for the official Porsche approval.

    Greetings

    Nov 7, 2004 2:51:57 AM

    RCA
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    Reply to: ALDOM

    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    Rule No.1: never trust a dealer.
    Rule No.2: see rule No.1

    BTW: I forgot another "problem" with non-approved Porsche tires. Porsche could (theoretically) refuse warranty repairs for the 4WD system.
    Porsche is one of the car companies who puts a lot of money, time and engineering skills into tire setup development and testing.
    The problem with non-approved tires is not that they "don't feel good". The problem is in certain situations, especially regarding extreme driving (track, rain, snow, etc.) and braking. Take the Carrera GT as an example: with "standard" tires in the same OEM size, this car would probably be undriveable for an amateur.

    I remember when I first heard about N-classified tires and I asked about that "stupid" N and the number behind it at my local tire dealer who is the biggest tire dealer in my town. The sales guy, somebody I always trusted, told me that this is just pure advertisement/marketing and that N-classified tires are the same as the tires without N classification. I trusted him and bought a set of non-N tires, same brand and type as the OEM tires for my 993.
    A few days later, I had the impression that the car was a bit more difficult to drive at the (my) limit. After doing some investigation, I ended up with somebody from Pirelli Germany. This guy told me that car manufacturers keep the changes secret but there is definetely a different compound/tread mixture and other differences. And the "funniest" part: the tires I had mounted on my 993 were approved up to a speed of 272 kph only, the approved Porsche tires with N-classification were approved up to 290 or 293 kph, I don't remember anymore exactly. Of course my 993 didn't do 290 kph but just as an example of the difference.

    I also saw that Mercedes started to do the same with their high performance car models, my former E55 AMG had M0 designated tires.

    Nov 7, 2004 4:31:33 AM

    TopherV
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    So N means what exactly.. Dealer approved? or Manufacturer approved?

    Nov 7, 2004 7:14:04 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: TopherV

    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    Quote:
    TopherV said:
    So N means what exactly.. Dealer approved? or Manufacturer approved?



    The N on Porsche tires means: this tire has been specifically developped and tested for a specific Porsche model and passed all internal driving dynamics, safety and stability tests. N designated Porsche tires are not the same tires you get without that N.
    Meaning: even if a tire is the same brand, same type, same speed index, same size, etc., it is not the same as the same tire with the additional N designation. A lot of people treat tires like something not as important as wings, stereo systems, sport exhaust systems, etc. but in reality, tires are the MOST IMPORTANT thing on a sports car because it is the ONLY connection between the car and the street.

    Nov 7, 2004 7:46:24 PM

    HighDesert
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    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    RC,

    Are your 19s a new version like the new version of the 20" wheels required for the power kit or will the originally released 19s clear the power kit calipers?

    Nov 7, 2004 8:40:02 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: HighDesert

    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    Quote:
    bancu said:
    RC,

    Are your 19s a new version like the new version of the 20" wheels required for the power kit or will the originally released 19s clear the power kit calipers?



    The original 19'' wheels are OK for the powerkit caliper.
    This is why I took them, initially I wanted to get 18'' winter wheels (Turbo) but with the powerkit, that would have been thrown out money.

    Nov 7, 2004 9:53:31 PM

    HighDesert
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    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    Thank you RC!

    Nov 8, 2004 6:32:02 AM

    Super DariusM
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    RC..you whant to upgrade your Cayenne with the PWKit??

    Ciaoo

    Nov 8, 2004 7:11:29 AM

    RCA
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    Reply to: Super DariusM

    Re: Porsche rear spacers and winter wheels

    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    RC..you whant to upgrade your Cayenne with the PWKit??

    Ciaoo



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