Crown

Since Peter (Trakcar) has posted the following information publicly already, I think it's ok to post it here too (as this interests many on the board).

Porsche has agreed to replace his PDK transmission for free under warranty.  Here is the explanation for the original warranty problem:

From PCNA Customer Service;

"According to PAG, the blocking flag was added in Germany for “Vehicle wheel alignment modified for race track”. Since your vehicle has aftermarket brakes installed, the blocking flag will need to remain on the vehicle however, the dealer is making a note in the vehicle history to advise that the block is strictly for the aftermarket brakes. This will ensure that in the future if your car returns for a repair, we will be able to easily identify the reason for the block so that it can be quickly determined if the repair is related to the aftermarket modification or if this is a defect in material or workmanship is a warranty matter. The blocking flag does not mean that the warranties on the vehicle are blocked and void. The blocking flag in this case is only intended to prevent repairs due to the aftermarket modifications from being submitted under warranty."

So, because Peter has installed aftermarket ST carbon-ceramic rotors (same as Movit) with Green colored calipers and new Titanium piston pucks to prevent cracking on his RS, his warranty will not cover any future problems with his modified brakes.  However, all other aspects of the car (engine, gearbox, chassis, etc.) continue to be covered under the factory warranty.

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18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Definitely a very fair outcome.  

Good to hear and very fair.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Great news ! Good to see that Porsche is "reasonable" about the situation. Thanks for sharing

Good it's being fixed.

Raises a slightly more worrying question though: they are really blocking warranties for track-focussed wheel alignment???

2019 911 GT3 RS,1964 Type 1

DaveGordon:

Raises a slightly more worrying question though: they are really blocking warranties for track-focussed wheel alignment???

It is interesting - Peter says he never did change alignment (and then only 0.5 degrees more negative camber on rear axle), until returning to US.  He thinks maybe it was just an excuse to watch for his car, since his tracking was very visible (online and in person) and he had been to Manthey at the Ring (Porsche-owned dealership now) with the car.

It does seem that Porsche is becoming more strict than before, but not clear exactly how this may affect owners yet.

I think Porsche has to walk a fine line between spending more money than they like to on warranty issues where cars see the racetrack and in preserving their reputation as sellers of a car that can safely be driven on the track (without voiding warranty).

I have never seen any warranty claim denied for driving a stock Porsche on a race track (not including actual sanctioned race).  And Porsche North America continues to assure me that their Euro Delivery insurance also covers crash damage in all such situations as well as on roads with only 1k EUR deductible.

I now have track insurance for myself in the USA and there is only a small fee to extend to European tracks (for all cars owned), so I will probably go this way for any future ED cars, just to be extra safe.

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18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

I remember him telling me the alignment was straight out of the factory when I was with him at the ring too,, (driving my rented Suzuki Swift )

2019 911 GT3 RS,1964 Type 1

Great outome. In our market Porsche will not extended the factory warranty beyond the new car 3 year warranty if there are ANY modifications made to the car. This includes pads, rotors and brake lines. If you wish to extend teh warranty you have to have the car converted back to factory standard before the 111 point inspection that takes place before they will issue an extended warranty. Its a royal PITA although i fully understand their position in this. I think they will increasingly become more prescriptive with regards the warranty, particularly cars that see regualr track work, in order to ensure they have control over their costs in this regards...

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2017 991.2 GT3 Manual, 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia QV, 2017 Macan S (Petrol)

So literally this is a case of someone not reading all the instructions first and pretend they know everything. What's new.

The service advisor in question, instead of finding out and clarifying the block with VAG, just blanket refuse Peter. 

PCNA NEEDS to educate their dealers more on proper service. 

Sometimes there are people that don't know they are the lowest rank pawn, and pretend to be king. 

schmoell:

Great news ! Good to see that Porsche is "reasonable" about the situation. Thanks for sharing

I advice caution: My guess is that Porsche took notice of the popularity of Trakcar but this doesn't mean that future decisions in similar cases will be identical.

Best bet is to keep quiet about mods and to have a very good relationship to the dealership. 👀

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

So all this internet noise + upsetting Trackcar because a guy did not know how to read properly an internal notice 

Porsche handled the case properly . It is normal warranty does not apply on problems linked  to an aftermarket part . 

But when the problem has nothing to do with the non official mod , then warranty must be applied .

The sentence about alignment does not make sense on an RC . If you can do it because  the features of the car allow it and are implemented from factory then it is part of what the car has been made to .  If they don't want people to change alignement settings, they need to make it not possible from the start .

Anyway, we have yet never herd of warrantee avoidance because of that .

As said, best is to only mod what is accepted and to have a solid talk with your dealer about it . 

Manthey, an official Porsche dealer + they actually belong to Porsche , do some mods, other's they won't .

It is safe and pretty logical to admit that what they do as mods are accepted and will not void warranties . 

Changing disks is not accepted , in any of the official Porsche garages . In Peter's case, they did it properly. Disks have no influence on PDK box, so they covered the case.

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 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Track alignement is allowed and being done at my dealer. 
All Manthey parts can be installed by your dealer and covered. 
there is no statement in the manual regarding forbidden to track and even marketing and cars presentation always praised the people which are tracking the cars...(GT models)

there is even a specific maintenance booklet for track use...

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

Gnil:

So all this internet noise + upsetting Trackcar because a guy did not know how to read properly an internal notice 

Porsche handled the case properly . It is normal warranty does not apply on problems linked  to an aftermarket part . 

But when the problem has nothing to do with the non official mod , then warranty must be applied .

The sentence about alignment does not make sense on an RC . If you can do it because  the features of the car allow it and are implemented from factory then it is part of what the car has been made to .  If they don't want people to change alignement settings, they need to make it not possible from the start .

Anyway, we have yet never herd of warrantee avoidance because of that .

As said, best is to only mod what is accepted and to have a solid talk with your dealer about it . 

Manthey, an official Porsche dealer + they actually belong to Porsche , do some mods, other's they won't .

It is safe and pretty logical to admit that what they do as mods are accepted and will not void warranties . 

Changing disks is not accepted , in any of the official Porsche garages . In Peter's case, they did it properly. Disks have no influence on PDK box, so they covered the case.

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 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

 

Didn't know that RC can be aligned, maybe someone should tell his wife :) On a more serious note, the roll-bar of the RS has a 3 or 4 settings, which would not make any sense if changing alignment wasn't allowed

😂 I can be aligned indeed but it requires a pretty delicate and sophisticated setup. 🤗

Speaking of tracking and warranty: Tracking within official Porsche events and somewhat "acceptable" third party events is OK but once you track your car "to achieve best times in a competitive environment" (sorry, in English this may sound different than in German), then the owner can lose the warranty coverage and things can get complicated.

Exchanging parts is never a good idea because Porsche could argue that these changes harmed other parts.

Remember the third party chassis mods on the Boxster and the resulting body cracks? Or the fact that for some models, Porsche prohibited the use of slicks because the lubrication system (in cars without a real dry sump lubrication system) didn't work right with huge lateral forces?

These warranty issues can happen and people need to be aware of them. I still believe however that not making every mod public and maintaining a good relationship to the dealer is the wisest way to go. To each his own.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Can you post your settings ?  

When I attend track events, probably 70% of the GT cars have non official brake disks . The problem with the original ones is that they crack very quickly . That is the reason why people change them for disks that don't have the holes in them .  

Porsche garages are not allowed and will not install non official disks . 

Brake pads are a different story . Non original ones are tolerated . 

What else is then also accepted as mods ? Not much .... Suspensions ? Manthey are selling and installing  different ones then the original . 

Doing an alignement is part of the feature of the car .  Not changing it is like having the air temperature original setting on 21 degrees from factory and not touching  it . 

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 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

I agree with you and understand the (not new) dilemma. This is why I stated the thing with not making things too public and keeping a good relationship with the dealer.

I just wish Porsche would see a market chance here by offering some additional "track hardware/setups" for extra money. Some sort of Track Package or whatever they want to call it.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

I just wish Porsche would see a market chance here by offering some additional "track hardware/setups" for extra money. Some sort of Track Package or whatever they want to call it.

That package is supposed to be known as "GT3" or "GT3 RS" 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

I was thinking the same. And if the GT3s are not enough, there is the CUP, the Clubsports, GT3 R and the RSR. Unfortunately the "extra money" turns out to be quite a lot, but we all know that they eventually get all of it anyway    

RC:

I agree with you and understand the (not new) dilemma. This is why I stated the thing with not making things too public and keeping a good relationship with the dealer.

I just wish Porsche would see a market chance here by offering some additional "track hardware/setups" for extra money. Some sort of Track Package or whatever they want to call it.

 

 

for subject related to legal on public road, it is called Manthey Racing Package!

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

RC:

I agree with you and understand the (not new) dilemma. This is why I stated the thing with not making things too public and keeping a good relationship with the dealer.

I just wish Porsche would see a market chance here by offering some additional "track hardware/setups" for extra money. Some sort of Track Package or whatever they want to call it.

 

 

for subject related to legal on public road, it is called Manthey Racing Package!

Agreed but I just wish they would offer this as some sort of "official" package through dealerships.

I know, I know, the GT3 and GT3 RS are supposed to be track-ready and whatnot but we all know that there are issues if people are serious about track racing (not track "clubbing"). I still think this is an opportunity for Porsche to make some extra dough. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

 

Agreed but I just wish they would offer this as some sort of "official" package through dealerships.

I know, I know, the GT3 and GT3 RS are supposed to be track-ready and whatnot but we all know that there are issues if people are serious about track racing (not track "clubbing"). I still think this is an opportunity for Porsche to make some extra dough. 

I think they tried with the Weissach Package but it was more cosmetic and exotic than anything else.

further track ready package would be similar to what Manthey proposes but as you can imagine, the demand is not huge even if the success story of this company is rising fairly quickly. GT owners nowadays are more interested by the designation of the car on the back their 911 when it is parked in a cars and coffee meeting.

Track rats are all over the place for this type of packages but probably PAG will listen more on this coming iteration when flippers and posers will start to look for another money maker as they know PAG is now responding to the oversupply request with no shame

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

RC:

 

Agreed but I just wish they would offer this as some sort of "official" package through dealerships.

I know, I know, the GT3 and GT3 RS are supposed to be track-ready and whatnot but we all know that there are issues if people are serious about track racing (not track "clubbing"). I still think this is an opportunity for Porsche to make some extra dough. 

I think they tried with the Weissach Package but it was more cosmetic and exotic than anything else.

further track ready package would be similar to what Manthey proposes but as you can imagine, the demand is not huge even if the success story of this company is rising fairly quickly. GT owners nowadays are more interested by the designation of the car on the back their 911 when it is parked in a cars and coffee meeting.

Track rats are all over the place for this type of packages but probably PAG will listen more on this coming iteration when flippers and posers will start to look for another money maker as they know PAG is now responding to the oversupply request with no shame

The problem is track rats forget they are amateurs as they strive to improve their time by a fraction of a second or second. Each improvement increases the risk of lost of control or collision possibly leading to serious injury. The car from the factory are designed for amateurs. To modify it for that additional second can be dangerous.

Nick says it best. Improve your driving skills 

Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.

nberry:

the-missile:

RC:

 

Agreed but I just wish they would offer this as some sort of "official" package through dealerships.

I know, I know, the GT3 and GT3 RS are supposed to be track-ready and whatnot but we all know that there are issues if people are serious about track racing (not track "clubbing"). I still think this is an opportunity for Porsche to make some extra dough. 

I think they tried with the Weissach Package but it was more cosmetic and exotic than anything else.

further track ready package would be similar to what Manthey proposes but as you can imagine, the demand is not huge even if the success story of this company is rising fairly quickly. GT owners nowadays are more interested by the designation of the car on the back their 911 when it is parked in a cars and coffee meeting.

Track rats are all over the place for this type of packages but probably PAG will listen more on this coming iteration when flippers and posers will start to look for another money maker as they know PAG is now responding to the oversupply request with no shame

The problem is track rats forget they are amateurs as they strive to improve their time by a fraction of a second or second. Each improvement increases the risk of lost of control or collision possibly leading to serious injury. The car from the factory are designed for amateurs. To modify it for that additional second can be dangerous.

Nick says it best. Improve your driving skills 

Alignment is about tailoring the car to your driving style and getting the best performance out of the existing platform. It's actually a total waste if you don't do it, if you're into driving.

1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport

Frank, I would wager 99.9% of Porsche owners get less than 75% of the car capability. Tweaking it here and there won't do much though most amateurs think otherwise. That said, your point about alignment is worthy of consideration.

Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.

Porker:

nberry:

the-missile:

RC:

 

Agreed but I just wish they would offer this as some sort of "official" package through dealerships.

I know, I know, the GT3 and GT3 RS are supposed to be track-ready and whatnot but we all know that there are issues if people are serious about track racing (not track "clubbing"). I still think this is an opportunity for Porsche to make some extra dough. 

I think they tried with the Weissach Package but it was more cosmetic and exotic than anything else.

further track ready package would be similar to what Manthey proposes but as you can imagine, the demand is not huge even if the success story of this company is rising fairly quickly. GT owners nowadays are more interested by the designation of the car on the back their 911 when it is parked in a cars and coffee meeting.

Track rats are all over the place for this type of packages but probably PAG will listen more on this coming iteration when flippers and posers will start to look for another money maker as they know PAG is now responding to the oversupply request with no shame

The problem is track rats forget they are amateurs as they strive to improve their time by a fraction of a second or second. Each improvement increases the risk of lost of control or collision possibly leading to serious injury. The car from the factory are designed for amateurs. To modify it for that additional second can be dangerous.

Nick says it best. Improve your driving skills 

Alignment is about tailoring the car to your driving style and getting the best performance out of the existing platform. It's actually a total waste if you don't do it, if you're into driving.

Yep and helps to make the tires last a little longer (though Rear Axle Steering makes that difficult)

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

nberry:

the-missile:

RC:

 

Agreed but I just wish they would offer this as some sort of "official" package through dealerships.

I know, I know, the GT3 and GT3 RS are supposed to be track-ready and whatnot but we all know that there are issues if people are serious about track racing (not track "clubbing"). I still think this is an opportunity for Porsche to make some extra dough. 

I think they tried with the Weissach Package but it was more cosmetic and exotic than anything else.

further track ready package would be similar to what Manthey proposes but as you can imagine, the demand is not huge even if the success story of this company is rising fairly quickly. GT owners nowadays are more interested by the designation of the car on the back their 911 when it is parked in a cars and coffee meeting.

Track rats are all over the place for this type of packages but probably PAG will listen more on this coming iteration when flippers and posers will start to look for another money maker as they know PAG is now responding to the oversupply request with no shame

The problem is track rats forget they are amateurs as they strive to improve their time by a fraction of a second or second. Each improvement increases the risk of lost of control or collision possibly leading to serious injury. The car from the factory are designed for amateurs. To modify it for that additional second can be dangerous.

Nick says it best. Improve your driving skills 

Nick - normally, improving lap times is the result of more mastery of the car (rather than driving beyond one’s ability).  Usually, trying to go faster than your skill level just results in slower times (and possible incidents).

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

nberry:

Frank, I would wager 99.9% of Porsche owners get less than 75% of the car capability. Tweaking it here and there won't do much though most amateurs think otherwise. That said, your point about alignment is worthy of consideration.

How are you defining 75% of the car's ability?  By lap time?  I've watched Frank and the number is way higher than 75% is his case (and I would suggest for many board members, unless you're defining that in some way I haven't considered).

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Well I assume most of us actually take the offer at the least of the free half track day with an instructor when we buy a Porsche, so that gives even those who only do that once a bit more of a feel for the other “25%” , no?

nberry:

Frank, I would wager 99.9% of Porsche owners get less than 75% of the car capability. Tweaking it here and there won't do much though most amateurs think otherwise. That said, your point about alignment is worthy of consideration.

More like 50%  and yes, individual alignments can make a lot of sense to adapt to an individual driving style, even specific tracks (would probably be too expensive to get a proper track alignment each time you change the track though). I also noticed that some sports cars have a completely out of whack alignment from the factory (this happens not only with Porsche cars), so doing some tweaks or at least adjusting alignment to your needs can never be wrong.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

nberry:

Frank, I would wager 99.9% of Porsche owners get less than 75% of the car capability. Tweaking it here and there won't do much though most amateurs think otherwise. That said, your point about alignment is worthy of consideration.

More like 50%  and yes, individual alignments can make a lot of sense to adapt to an individual driving style, even specific tracks (would probably be too expensive to get a proper track alignment each time you change the track though). I also noticed that some sports cars have a completely out of whack alignment from the factory (this happens not only with Porsche cars), so doing some tweaks or at least adjusting alignment to your needs can never be wrong.

You can say we’re not using more than 75%, 50%, or 1% of the car’s real potential, but it’s totally meaningless if you’re not going to define how you mean that.

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi