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    997S severe system failure!

    now that i have your attention, here is what happend to me today:

    as many of you know, i purschased a brand new 997S several weeks ago. i love the car and have ~3200mls on it now.

    this morning, when i got into the car and turned it on, a loud beep went off and the display said: "severe system failure. see workshop immediately!". crap, i thought to myself. the next porsche dealer is only 10min away, so i drove the car there, slow, carefull, not to high revs, because i didn't know what this message means. the oil temp, water temp and oil pressure all was normal btw.

    arriving at the dealer, they where relly busy, normal monday morning i guess so i had to park the car on the street entrance to the dealer (this becomes an important fact later...). i waited a while and finally found a service guy, who i explained my problem to. he went to my car and played arround with the key for a while, trying to put it into the ignition key while looking at the screen. while doing this, he scratched up the leather that is arround the ignition. moron! i was at 100deg already, steaming... not a good way to start the monday morning.

    anyways, he confirmed the message and said: "we need to do some diagnostics, you have to leave the car here, at least till tomorrow!". oh well, i said, what are my options, and agreed to leave the car there. i then went on and told him, in a very precise manner: "only do diagnostics please! i do NOT want you to do any mechanical work, no pulling out carpet, no pulling out modules, etc, just diagnostics please! ok?", he said, ok (i didn't want these guys to do any work since i have a dealership close to my work which has a better reputation, i would rather have big things done there). i went on and took delivery of a pice of $#!& pontiac grand am, which was very dirty inside.

    when i drove off the lot, i noticed that my car was still parked half way on the street, but now, with a ticket! :-( because they didn't pull it in while i waited for the rental, but left it out. so no, ontop of all the crap, i also have a ticket... great start of the week.

    almost the entire day passed by, without any call from the dealer. when i called them, they said that they didn't have time to look at my car yet, but may be abale to do so by the end of the day. 1h later, i get another call, this time from a girl, explaining that they did the diagnostics and then she said the following:

    "the right-door front control module, which is responsible for such things as turn signals, tunklid unlatch, door locks, etc. has a malefunction and needs to be replaced due to severe internal damange. we ordered a module from germany but it will take some time. we reset the internal system, and all is fine now. you can pick up your car tinoght...". ok, i said, great, so i can drive it until the module arrives, she confirms.

    when i arrived, i checked my car, and besides from being dusty like hell (probably spent the entire day outside) i also noticed that the interior carpet in the tunk was pulled out and not put back in completely correct.

    so, what is the result of this day for me, well, here it goes:

    * i am pissed beyon believe that a $100k car has a problem (any kind of problem) after 3k mls!
    * i am pissed beyond believe i got a ticket
    * it is unaceptable that porsche does not provide a porsche rental for customers of a $100k car, when they have to wait for theirs (in the 4 years i had my X5, i ALWAYS got a BMW car when i had the X5 in service)
    * i could go on....


    so after this episode (and the still ongoing rattle issues, see other thread here at rennteam) i have to as myself a serious question: am i really ready for a porsche? or any "low reliability" sports car.

    before i purchased the 997S, i briefly looked at ferrari, but the high-maintainace reputation of those F cars, made me buy a porsche. so far, my first weeks with the 997 turned out to be a pain in the butt.

    if this continiues, i will sell the car. this is just to much trouble, i don't have time for this crap. i consider this really sad, as i love the driving of the 997, it is really a lot of fun but i need a car that runs, period.

    allright, i think i blew enough steam for tonight. sorry if i offended anyone. i am just steaming right now. tomorrow is another day... i am can't wait to drive the 997 tomorrow morning... :-)

    regards,
    -r

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    Hey Ossi,
    If I was in your place i would be pissed as well. You could continue to steam off by sending a letter to Porsche (North America) Explaining what had happened and wait to hear their response. In addition write a letter to the management of that dealership.
    I'm surprised that a porsche with limited mileage would have such problems, but off course minor defects due occur especially in the first production of a new model. I Hope they fix your problem as soon as possible.
    Can You Provide the name of the dealership that you had the problem with?!

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    OK, here's my rendition of a similar incident. Sunday after washing the car I start it to move it back into the garage and hear a grinding noise in the engine area. Later I start it again and I get a "system failure" message. Monday I contact the dealer and they ask me to bring it in. We agree to flat bed it over. The tow guy is extremely careful with the car. At the dealer they do a check and contact FNA after not finding anything. FNA advises they do a complete system check. They do it, still nothing. Service calls advising of the update and that car is ready. I ask for a pick up from the service guy. The salesman calls back(on his day off) and asks if I want him to come pick me up. He gives me a ride back and I pick up the freshly detailed 997S. No additional problems with the car. Although I am careful of not getting excessive water near the engine compartment. Not bad service I'd say

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    The different experiences of ossi and SrfCity clearly show how important the dealer choice is. I agree that dealers who do not do their work right should be shunned.

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    small additional piece(s) of info(s):

    * the dealer i used for emergency service was NOT the dealer i purschased the car from (purchased the car from northern california due to limited availability down here in LA area)
    * i washed the car on sunday, the day before today, so there could be some relationship between water and the failure (if so, i am even more pissed. how can a $100k car be sensible to regular car washing? not even used a pressure wash!!! )


    man i am mad...

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    To RC,

    On the note of "system diagnostics" i have a question, that only you can answer :

    how does one optain a 997 service manual? i know that for many car makes, there are complete service manuals available on DVD these days. so i assume porsche is no exception? do you have any info/source? if the manual is "only" german, thats fine, i think my german is still pretty good, even after 5years in taco-land.


    any info welcome!
    Danke,
    -r

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    This clearly shows indeed how important it is to chose a good dealer, it shouldn't be though.
    The system failure messages however are of more serious matter, hope it's not a general problem.

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    Sorry to hear what you went through .

    I shall say that, knock on wood, I personally never had any issues with any of my porsches nor with the two dealerships in town. I was always provided with a Boxster as a loaner and extremely professional and courteous service.

    Hope your issue resolves soon.

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    strange...i understand how uppset you are..i dont think washing has anything to do with it ,my car gets washed every 2 days and i never had any problems or any system message until now..

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    This clearly shows indeed how important it is to chose a good dealer, it shouldn't be though.
    The system failure messages however are of more serious matter, hope it's not a general problem.



    Many times your choice of a dealer is very straight forward, it's the only dealer. Consider our situation in Texas: Houston is the 4th largest city in the United States with a population of over 2 million; number of Porsche dealers? Two. San Antonio is the 8th largest city in the US with a population of 1.2 million; number of Porsche dealers? One. Austin, 16th largest in US? One dealer.

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    Quote:
    ossi said:

    i guess so i had to park the car on the street entrance to the dealer (

    i waited a while and finally found a service guy,

    he went to my car and played arround with the key for a while, trying to put it into the ignition key while looking at the screen.

    while doing this, he scratched up the leather that is arround the ignition. moron!
    .

    anyways, he confirmed the message and said: "we need to do some diagnostics, you have to leave the car here, at least till tomorrow!".

    i went on and took delivery of a pice of $#!& pontiac grand am, which was very dirty inside.

    when i drove off the lot, i noticed that my car was still parked half way on the street, but now, with a ticket! :-( because they didn't pull it in while i waited for the rental, but left it out.


    almost the entire day passed by, without any call from the dealer. when i called them, they said that they didn't have time to look at my car yet,


    when i arrived, i checked my car, and besides from being dusty like hell (probably spent the entire day outside)

    i also noticed that the interior carpet in the tunk was pulled out and not put back in completely correct.






    Definitely nightmare material. It was difficult to read your post, makes me sick.

    After waiting at the side of the road for the requisite three or four hours Does Porsche roadside assistence allow you to send the car to the Porsche dealer of your choice?

    Probably would have been a good move.

    meanwhile pull yourself together; this may be as bad as it will ever get and you'll have no more major problems.



    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    Bummer Ossi. But, keep in mind, that it is highly likely that this is a random failure of an electronic component. The failure rate of electronic components such as computers, etc. is highest in the beginning. In general, it seems that German makes just haven't reached the initial quality standards of the Japanese. My E36 M3, E39 M5, and C-TT have all had numerous minor electrical and mechanical gremlins. But, then again, nothing drives like a Porsche!

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    Sorry to hear re: your negative episode. But I wouldn't bail on P based on this episode.....numerous horror stories exist of those who bought "sensible" BMWs and Mercs that are lemons....unfortunately, one typically must endure significant torture before a car is/if ever is designated a "lemon". Significant variation exists across dealer networks....esp in place like LA where choices exist may want to identify service-focused dealer and build relationships. Hope car works out without additional issues

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    This clearly shows indeed how important it is to chose a good dealer, it shouldn't be though.
    The system failure messages however are of more serious matter, hope it's not a general problem.



    Many times your choice of a dealer is very straight forward, it's the only dealer. Consider our situation in Texas: Houston is the 4th largest city in the United States with a population of over 2 million; number of Porsche dealers? Two. San Antonio is the 8th largest city in the US with a population of 1.2 million; number of Porsche dealers? One. Austin, 16th largest in US? One dealer.



    Must be great to be a P dealer in TX! Seriously, many parts of Western US have few P dealers....Phx and Seattle are also essentially monopoly situations; P dealers are few and far between in various corridors of wealth, none in city of SF, only 1? in Orange County, etc. Yet some Eastern cities have several small P dealers. PCNA needs to re-examine the map of wealth centers in US (which has changed dramatically in past 15 yrs) and re-allocate dealer franchises (AKA licenses to print money)....

    That is typical of my service experience at my dealer

    If there is some way for them to do less than I expect, they find it. If they say they'll call with info they never do. If they promise the car at a certain time it's never ready.

    I've started just doing mainenance on it myself. I can change the oil and filters etc... cheaper and faster than they can anyway...

    What a JOKE Porsche service departments are....

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    Ossi, your money's green; go to another dealership from now on and report these bad guys to Porsche NA to protect the rest of us from them. One dealership lost the 997S sale to me after smearing my tan interior on my Boxster S with motor oil, followed by borderline rude behavior from my Service Rep. (the wrong thing to do to me after I spent thousands of dollars there in M&R).

    I have a PDF version of the 997 manual I could send you. It's about 2.5 MEGs.

    Re: That is typical of my service experience at my dealer

    Quote:
    John SF 2005 997 S said:
    If there is some way for them to do less than I expect, they find it. If they say they'll call with info they never do. If they promise the car at a certain time it's never ready.

    I've started just doing mainenance on it myself. I can change the oil and filters etc... cheaper and faster than they can anyway...

    What a JOKE Porsche service departments are....



    Aren't Sonnen and Rector reasonably competent?

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    Quote:
    ossi said:
    small additional piece(s) of info(s):

    * the dealer i used for emergency service was NOT the dealer i purschased the car from (purchased the car from northern california due to limited availability down here in LA area)
    * i washed the car on sunday, the day before today, so there could be some relationship between water and the failure (if so, i am even more pissed. how can a $100k car be sensible to regular car washing? not even used a pressure wash!!! )

    .

    man i am mad...



    I am not a Porsche fan. However one incident should not impact you to the extent it has. After a couple of days and you have your car back all will be forgiven. It could happen to any car.

    BTW, it appears you should not drive your car in heavy rain.

    I was talking ABOUT SONNEN !!!!


    Re: I was talking ABOUT SONNEN !!!!

    Interesting...Sonnen even has specific brochures touting their service dept and has supposedly won P Premier status in '04 based on customer satisfaction...I haven't used either Sonnen/Rector yet, but I guess one needs to be "introduced" to dealer by a VIP customer to be taken seriously....my prior expces w/Merc and F dealers indicate similar, "relationship-specific" levels of service....but isn't that a common theme in life?, i.e. service levels at restaurants, hotels, nightclubs, etc all tend to vary by how much revenue one brings and relationships one has built w/relevant "managers"....

    Re: I was talking ABOUT SONNEN !!!!

    hehee! in Italy during manutention they give me a WV LUPO 3L !
    I prefer a WV Beatle ,similar to my 911 ....ehehh!!

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    Well, I've kept my mouth shut about my similar episode as I wanted to give Porsche a chance to sort it out, but I guess the "cat's out of the bag" now.

    My car had the same sort of failure on day 3, after getting into the car a couple of hours after washing it. It seems that there must be something to the washing as too many are having similar troubles...

    The dealer cleared the codes and said that there appeared to be a fault in the steering angle sensor. The message came back a couple of weeks later, again when starting it after parking it after a wash. Back to the dealer, another reset, and it held for a few more days.

    The dealer said that PCNA had a "fix" and I brought it in again, leaving it for a couple of days. After being assured that it was finally fixed, I drove away and when I hit around 38 MPH I got a "PSM failure" message, which was quite alarming. I also got a "Sport mode failure" message when trying to turn different things on, so it seemed to have gone from bad to worse.

    Back to the dealer, and this time I had finally lost my cool and told them to fix it or I was going to hit the internet sites, write the magazines, and would even consider hiring a lawyer. They kept the car a few days and "got the message" about how angry I was, and it seems that the problem has been addressed. The mechanic apparently didn't replace both parts of the steering angle sensor, just one, and it was the other that was faulty. That kept setting things off, and on the first visit to "fix" things I think they must have set something else off.

    The car spent 7 days out of the first 1.5 months at the dealer trying to address this issue. PCNA did give me a bit of compensation, a month off my lease, as a way to try to make things up to me. I guess it might also be a form of "hush" money, but I felt it was the least they could do after the stress from having a 100k car that didn't work worth a damn.

    By comparison, I bought a Subaru Outback a couple of weeks after the Carrera S and haven't had any problems. It's amazing that a car that costs 1/3 what the Porsche does and from a less prestigious manufacturer can be so much better in terms of the new owner experience! Both of these are new models for 2005, so that argument doesn't hold, and the Subaru has plenty of electronics, etc., and is by no means a simplistic car. In any event, Porsche should be ashamed of the problems and the poor ownership experience! German quality my ass.

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    Ouch! This stuff is making me very nervous about my November build base 997. Looks like I'm leasing this sucker, since I don't want to roll the dice with worse-than expected depreciation if the car turns out not to be very robust.

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    Ossi, I can only imagine your pain and desperation. I really don't understand Porsche sometimes, they invest millions on increasing the sales but do nothing on the service dept. Imagine a CGT owner with a problem, I bet most dealers can't deal with a CGT for a number of reasons. Most Porsche dealers service depts are now constantly full due to the Cayenne arrival.

    But what pisses me most is then picking up the latest issue of Christophourus and reading a missleading article where Walter Rohrl goes gets bread in a CGT in the morning and coffe in the afternoon. What kind of crap is Porsche trying on us to believe. I bet most Porsche owners will think, "oh well the CGT is as usefull as my Boxster but with just 400hp more "

    Porsche should get their priorities together and offer a decent service, I mean at least.

    Unlikely to happen when I came forward with the Cayenne moisture in the headlamps issue because a customer of a 996TT and 955TT was not getting any response from the service det I got the call to "SHUT UP" and continue saying "that's the way they are". I mean what kind of crap is that, imagine coming out of your house looking at your two new TT one perfect and the other with moisture in the headlamps and getting as an answer "That's the way they are". When not even a VW Lupo gets this type of thing.

    I don't work for Porsche anymore, I guess I just used to much common sense or somenthing because I was very pressured after the headlight issue.

    I will have a full test on the 997S pretty soon and will let you know how it went.

    Frissen
    IPOC

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    Well there must be something to getting water in the engine compartment then. A little more detail here. The vents and subsequent fan under the rear spoiler seem to allow a significant amount of water into the engine compartment during a wash. And when you lift the engine hood after to attempt to dry there is a a lot of water that pours in. It even wants to pour down the air intake tube(?) So on the day I had the problem I used a leave blower to get the excess water out of the nooks and crannies and then blew into the engine compartment after to dry it. I think this may have blown some water into an area that created some kind of short that caused the "system failure." So I don't do that anymore and after the wash lift the engine hood slightly and allow the water to gradually drain. The last wash I did not have a problem.

    Re: 997S severe system failure!

    It's astounding to me that washing a car could cause a problem, and it makes me wonder if Porsche spent too much time in the desert and artic regions instead of everyday condidtions. Did they think that no one would wash the cars, or perhaps want to open the engine compartment to dry things down a bit? The first time I saw the water pour into the air intake it made me do a double take, as I can't imagine any real engineer creating such a ridiculous design.

    Sigh. It's a great car, honestly, and I've enjoyed it, but having so many problems really takes the shine off of it quite a bit. I can accept that there are bad cars every now and then, but these problems appear to be true design flaws and not just flukes. They should fix them ASAP, and do a recall if necessary to make the corrections. Waiting for owners to run into the problems is just plain silly, and it's going to bite them on the ass if they don't watch it.

    Re: I was talking ABOUT SONNEN !!!!

    When I go to Sonnen I'm in jeans and t shirt - so I think they don't take me seriously. Also not sure if I'm young 33 for a Porsche owner or not - but they just don't seem to give a [censored] there. I've had better service and BMW and Honda dealers.

    Re: I was talking ABOUT SONNEN !!!!

    Quote:
    John SF 2005 997 S said:
    When I go to Sonnen I'm in jeans and t shirt - so I think they don't take me seriously. Also not sure if I'm young 33 for a Porsche owner or not - but they just don't seem to give a [censored] there. I've had better service and BMW and Honda dealers.



    SF (esp SilicVy) is full of 30-something tech and financial titans who dress casually and consume many P and F cars. My sense is vast majority of high-end dealers in any major city offer suboptimal service to those who don't find a way to intro themselves to right guys at dealer...best intro is often via a friend who's gotten many cars at that dealer and knows the relevant guys....just remember the trusty 20-80 rule of many businesses: 20% of custs are responsible for 80% of profits...and the corollary, 20% of employees generate 80% of productivity...

    Re: 997S severe system failure! MORE INFO

    Fellows,

    i have some updated info from this morning:

    after i got home last night (system had been reset by the dealer), i dusted off my car, since they returned it to me much dirtier than i i took it there. so, i used a de-duster and cleaned off the dust, then i apllied a new coat of polymer sealer, which i had done so on the sonday before the issue started. after i let the sealer dry for about 30min, i started wiping it off with some supersoft microfiber and thats when i noticed something: there seemed to be a lot of static electricity the more i wiped the car down. when i was done, the car looked and feled great, but the entire car was staticly charged. i could hear the static noise when touching it.

    i went to bed and when i pulled out the car in the morning sun it looked great, but the warning message was back!!!


    so my theory now, since this time there was no water involved, it is the static electricity from polishing the car, that "upset's" the CAN module!? maybe, maybe not.

    anyways, i kept driving to work, with the warning message active, and i noticed that everytime i used the turn signal, the message would go away, the info list would clear and the exclamation mark would go away as well. after a while of driving it would randomly reappear.

    spooky...

    thanks for all your thoughts.
    -r

    Re: 997S severe system failure! MORE INFO

    ossi, I drove the car quite a bit with the message displayed, which is what the dealer told me to do. The car drove perfectly, and the diagnostics showed that it was truly a software fault, not a real problem with the car. That being said, I wasn't entirely comfortable driving around with the warning message, but the dealer did tell me that it was okay to do so.

    The message can be made to "go away" by flicking the lever, but then you get the annoying red exclamation point. Using the turn signals will make it go away, as you noticed, but it will come back on again after a while. The first time mine did that I was hopeful that perhaps the "ghost in the machine" had left.

    I just hope your dealer doesn't try to "fix" your car like mine did on the first try. Having an annoying warning message is one thing, but having PSM, etc. fail is quite another. I asked the dealer "what next, are the brakes going to fail or the steering stop working?" I refused to drive the car with PSM in failure mode because I didn't want to encounter a problem that it would otherwise handle.

    Part of me is reliedved that my car isn't unique and some sort of "lemon", but another part of me is truly disgusted that Porsche can't get its act together. I told my dealer that they had better pray that I don't respond to the customemr experience surveys that are sent out. I had nothing good to say at the time, and still have bitter feelings about the "new car experience" that they screwed up so badly.

    Like many of you here and most of the early 997 owners, I'm a true Porsche fanatic. For them to get me so pissed off that I was ready to spend money to screw them as hard as I could says a lot. That I didn't do so is a wonder, and I've let the dealer know that if the car does this again I'm going to go after them, and I will make them truly sorry for releasing a flawed vehicle.

     
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