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    Oct 27, 2004 8:06:28 PM

    pnoble
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    pnoble
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    997S Break-In Period

    The manual says for 2,000 miles (3,000 km) don't exceed 4,200 RPM.

    My dealer says its not important (says Porsche factory people told him so), but I really don't want to comromise longer term performance or reliability (I'm leasing it for three years).

    Any thoughts?

    Oct 27, 2004 9:23:59 PM

    Moogle
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    Reply to: pnoble

    Re: 997S Break-In Period

    do it, it will be worth it for the engine, if not only for peace of mind.

    Oct 27, 2004 10:30:54 PM

    Texas911
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    Reply to: pnoble

    Re: 997S Break-In Period

    I would do what's in the manual. I mean, there must be a good reason for Porsche to put that in there.

    Oct 31, 2004 2:23:06 AM

    Paulo Avelino
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    Reply to: Texas911

    Re: 997S Break-In Period

    My dealer says the same. Even says that it has seen the engines been broken in at the factory, running several hours at redline. That I should run smoothly during the first 1.000km and then take it to the racetrack without pitty. That the performance even improves in cars that have been run hard earlier. This is what I'm doing with my new Carrera S. Since early today, 1.200km in the log, I have been given it a hard revving, near redline most of the time.

    Oct 31, 2004 3:03:20 PM

    MaxErnst
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    Reply to: Texas911

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    I would do what's in the manual. I mean, there must be a good reason for Porsche to put that in there.



    The good reason is to prevent failures during the warrenty.

    I read elsewhere that to get an engine to really perform well the break-in should be much more vigorous than what the conservative manual sez.

    Especially the first 100 miles when the piston rings have to seat.

    Porsche doesn't care if your car dynos at 330 insted of 355 hp after broken in.

    One of the most important parts of break-in is the temp cycles. Better to do alot of short trips where the engine has to go from cold to hot and back again than just a few long trips.

    Varying engine speed all the time is number two inpt thing to so.

    Basically: do NOt baby the car and don't be afraid to bring to highest recommended RPM. Vary engine speed and never punch the throttle.

    Oct 31, 2004 4:10:21 PM

    Texas911
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    Reply to: MaxErnst

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    OK, I'll do what a bunch of guys on the interner recommends instead of heading the FACTORY OWNER'S MANUAL! Not!

    It also says to change the oil in the manual, I guess I'll disregard that too, Oh and it says to fasten your seat belt, what the heck do they know, do they have a crystal ball and can see in the future that I'll be involved in a wreck? I guess when I get my car, I'll just burn the manual cause its all crap. I'll just read internet chat and use it as a guide.

    Oct 31, 2004 4:16:37 PM

    Dubliner
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    Reply to: Texas911

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Look, Texas, Pnoble asked for comments and advice.
    You may choose not to heed it. But there's no need to be dismissive of the solicited opinions on this group.

    Oct 31, 2004 4:25:05 PM

    MaxErnst
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    Reply to: Texas911

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    OK, I'll do what a bunch of guys on the interner recommends instead of heading the FACTORY OWNER'S MANUAL! Not!





    Hey Tex.

    What you have to realize is the manual is written like a legal document, they don't want any problems so they are as conservative as possible.

    Go to reputable web sites and you'll find that there are more details to consider when breaking in an engine.

    I bet there are alot of 299 HP 996s out there; ones that have followed the manuals exactly.


    Life is full of complications.


    Oct 31, 2004 8:03:35 PM

    Paulo Avelino
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    Reply to: MaxErnst

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    the flg article, although written for motorcycle engines is said, by its writer, to apply to cars as well: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
    it's very provocative...

    Oct 31, 2004 10:41:14 PM

    bari
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    Reply to: Paulo Avelino

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    It is very provocative alright... I've always said, don't buy a dealer's "demo" car or specifically a 997 "launch" car. By the Motoman's theory on hard "breaking in" of new engines, these demo cars and launch cars probably are best buys! I'm sure most if not all people that test drove them "opened up" one way or another. Provocative but at the same time it seems logical...

    (Incidentally, I have a Boxster S that have the engine replaced after 3K miles... wondered if it's because of the "soft breaking in" that I did as per manual. Hmmmmnn...)

    Nov 1, 2004 12:13:58 AM

    pnoble
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    pnoble
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    Reply to: Paulo Avelino

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Paolo,

    A very interesting article! I wish I'd read it before I went on a 300 mile drive the past couple of days. I now have 750 miles following the manual!!!

    I have been told that Porsche track tests their cars prior to shipment and I think mine had about 25 miles on it which I was told was for this reason. I wonder if this relates to the 'first 20 mile' critical break-in?

    All very confusing. You buy or lease a car of this value and performance and you want to do things right. Believe me driving at <4,200 RPM only is no fun!

    Paul

    PS: Any of the moderators on this web site willing to voice their professional opinions on what is surely a critical issue as more and more folks on this board take delivery of their new cars?

    Nov 1, 2004 12:20:00 AM

    Moogle
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    Reply to: pnoble

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    why can't people just believe whats in the manual...

    they have to bring up things like rumours, things they heard at the porschedealer/on the internet...

    sure the engines are tested on the bench and redlined, sure they are driven for a test after they complete production

    but you get a manual, and it says 2000 miles under 4200 (usa) or 1200kms under 4200 (EU)

    now soemone is going to bring up, why is the EU break in shorter? who knows.

    Nov 1, 2004 1:01:48 AM

    Red430
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    Reply to: Moogle

    Break-in challenging with Euro delivery

    I pick my car up at the factory on December 6th. It is going to be real hard to follow those rules while in Germany. I will ask them at the factory.

    Nov 1, 2004 1:43:28 AM

    pnoble
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    Reply to: Moogle

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Moogle,

    'Things you heard at a Porsche dealer'?

    When someone is selling (or leasing) me a $94,000 car, I'd like to think that they know what they are talking about! (And maybe they do.)

    I'm not the only one to have been told something by a Porsche dealer that directly contracticts what Porsche says: and not only regarding RPM, but also regarding snow tires.

    Mis-information re the former might cost you a few HP. Mis-information re the latter could cost you your life.

    By comparison, the info I got from BMW and its dealer was all pretty consistent, frankly.

    Nov 1, 2004 2:33:53 AM

    MaxErnst
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    Reply to: pnoble

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Quote:


    By comparison, the info I got from BMW and its dealer was all pretty consistent, frankly.




    When I bought my 03 M3 My BMW sales guy took me over to the service dept where he introduced me to one of their well-regarded mechanics who once worked for BMW racing cars.

    He told me to follow the RPMs recommended as much as possible and to drive the car hard within that range, BUT do not give it full throttle.

    I picked up the lots of short trips (cold-to hot-to cold cycles) is better than a few long trips somewhere.

    FWIW.

    Nov 1, 2004 2:51:20 AM

    Texas911
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    Reply to: MaxErnst

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Salesmen and dealer mechanics? I'll take the Porsche Factory engineers advice over them.

    And a RACE car engine is not anywhere near what a Mass Production engine is. In that case, why not break your engine in like F1 teams do? FWIW.

    Nov 1, 2004 3:11:39 AM

    Moogle
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    Reply to: pnoble

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Quote:
    pnoble said:
    When someone is selling (or leasing) me a $94,000 car, I'd like to think that they know what they are talking about! (And maybe they do.)



    at best, the dealers are 'misinformed', at worst, they are completely clueless.

    MOST people here know more than their dealers.

    i would believe the porsche factory's published information over things the dealer says regardless. this holds true for many reasons.

    this applies to everything in the manual, and things published in christophorus, things on porsches website, things in the TSBs.

    remember, a salesman will say anything to make a sale/hasten a sale/etc. and a mechanic will say anything to avoid doing borderline non-safety related work/etc.

    Nov 1, 2004 7:29:33 AM

    FutchM
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    Reply to: Moogle

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    This discussion has already happened in the past. The engine is redlined on the bench test but it doesn't have 1500 kgs of car to pull along, very simple.

    Nov 1, 2004 7:32:08 AM

    Moogle
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    This discussion has already happened in the past.



    countless times if i might add. this is beyond beating the dead horse. its resusitating it, and killing it again and again and again and again.

    Nov 1, 2004 9:42:16 AM

    dhayek Offline
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    Reply to: Moogle

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    in the european manual ,it says 3000km break in ,not 1200 km like somebody said.
    concerning me ,whenever i buy a new car i always feel the first 300km that the engine is still "raw" ,a little bit metal on metal feeling ,after these 300km i never felt something has changed or that it became smoother.since then,and i have done the same with my 997s ,i drive under 4k for 500 km ,and then i drive on the extreme.i never had any problem ,and the car is running very well .
    there is no way for me to drive under 4k for 3000km..

    Nov 1, 2004 12:08:21 PM

    pnoble
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    Reply to: Moogle

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Fanch, Moogle,

    If this question has been answered in prior posts, I'd appreciate a link. I am not trying to waste anyone's time or rehash already covered issues.

    I actually did a search before raising the question in the first place but could find nothing under 'break-in'. Prior threads may have used a different terminology, but what?

    I have just taken possession of a pretty expensive, very high performance car and am on this message board to benefit from the accumulated, informed knowledge of the board members: with respect to treating it properly and staying alive!

    I am not asking questions for the fun of it, only because I have received either no information or contradictory information between Porsche Germany, Porsche USA and my Porsche dealer specifically on this and the snow tire issue.

    Hopefully other new owners find my questions (and the answers and informed opinions offered) of value.

    The diversity of opinion I have heard on just this thread seems to indicate that this question still lacks a definitive answer, in many minds.

    Again, a link to prior threads on the subject would be appreciated.

    Thanks.

    Paul

    Nov 1, 2004 1:18:53 PM

    MaxErnst
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    Reply to: Texas911

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Salesmen and dealer mechanics? I'll take the Porsche Factory engineers advice over them.

    And a RACE car engine is not anywhere near what a Mass Production engine is. In that case, why not break your engine in like F1 teams do? FWIW.




    yeah, Tex, you make some good points.

    Still nobody has proven that the Porsche owner's manual recommendations are NOT excessively conservative.

    No one has proven that conservative recommendations will lead to getting the engine to broken-in in such a way that guarentees the maximum HP output.

    Nov 1, 2004 2:12:25 PM

    Dubliner
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    Reply to: MaxErnst

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    A search on the net for "break-in period" reveals an overwhelming proportion of recommendations for a less conservative approach. This applies to both cars and aircraft engines. Frankly, if it's good enough for aircraft engines, it's good enough for me. Your decision is yours alone.

    Nov 1, 2004 3:44:37 PM

    iia
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    Reply to: Texas911

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    And a RACE car engine is not anywhere near what a Mass Production engine is. In that case, why not break your engine in like F1 teams do? FWIW.


    And let the engine last for a weekend only?

    Nov 1, 2004 8:49:30 PM

    TimD
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    Reply to: dhayek

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    I asked the question when I took my test drive. The answer that I was given was that the prime importance was to ensure that the engine was right up to temperature before driving hard. I can't remember what distance the guy quoted, but it was a LOT less than 2000 miles. It wouldn't surprise me if about 20% of Porsches only cover that amount in a year!

    We know that the engine diagnostics can record the number of times that a car hits the rev-limiter on the way up, and how many times engine revs have exceeded the limiter on change-down, but I'd be interested to know whether it can record how the car was driven in the running-in period...

    Nov 1, 2004 9:20:39 PM

    ADias
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    Reply to: TimD

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Quote:
    TimD said:
    ... It wouldn't surprise me if about 20% of Porsches only cover that amount [2000 miles] in a year!...



    Sad! these cars are to be driven as daily drivers.

    Nov 2, 2004 7:21:09 AM

    Basalt
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    Reply to: ADias

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    I've been told no higher than 5000rpm for the first 500 miles. Also told that there is no problem in continual speed on a motorway (i.e. 90mph) for the break in period. I mentioned the recomendations in the manual and the opinion of the dealer was that was being over cautious and don't worry about giving her some for flexibilty so long as the above is adhered to.

    I've mixed the type of driving that I'm doing just to give it a bit of flexibility (motorway, city and country lanes)and have stayed below 4500rpm just to be safe - although there was a brief wild 5500 kickdown!

    Nov 2, 2004 2:36:28 PM

    carcam
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    Reply to: Basalt

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    A friend of mine picked up a 911 at the factory and discussed break-in with the guy taking him around and offered some insight: The break-in recommendations are based on engineering, legal, business, warranty and human nature input. The recommendations used to be 1,000 miles but they found out people usually made it about half way before hitting it harder, hence now 2,000 miles. It was far more harmful to hit it hard on cold start-up or lug it at low rpm vs red line occasionally when warm. There may be better performance breaking it in earlier and may be better long-term wear breaking it in longer but their warranty claims didn't seem to support either one. You can't help but believe the engineers and their recommendations but I think there is some leeway built in.

    Nov 2, 2004 2:45:28 PM

    MaxErnst
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    Reply to: carcam

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    Quote:
    kkeating said:
    A friend of mine picked up a 911 at the factory and discussed break-in with the guy taking him around and offered some insight: The break-in recommendations are based on engineering, legal, business, warranty and human nature input. The recommendations used to be 1,000 miles but they found out people usually made it about half way before hitting it harder, hence now 2,000 miles. It was far more harmful to hit it hard on cold start-up or lug it at low rpm vs red line occasionally when warm. There may be better performance breaking it in earlier and may be better long-term wear breaking it in longer but their warranty claims didn't seem to support either one. You can't help but believe the engineers and their recommendations but I think there is some leeway built in.



    This piece of the puzzle makes so much sense it is scary. Thanks K.

    Nov 2, 2004 11:09:04 PM

    Trundle_GT3
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    Reply to: MaxErnst

    Re: 997S Break-In Period: not clear

    It is interesting that break-in periods are expressed in mi/km, and since there is no engine hour meter, it's our only measure.
    But during this period, people travel in different gears which equal different RPM's ie: some travel on the highway in 6th, others in 4th, neither exceed the 4,200 RPM cap.
    Since the engine is new and tight more heat is generated, and I have always been a proponent of carefull heat cycles...easy when cold and an adequate cool down to let the temps stabalize before shutting down.
    Also during this period the brake rotors and flywheel are being beded in as well to obtain there full performance capabilities.
     
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