Crown

Unbelievable story 

2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

the 620R will fix that

@James - just watched the two videos about your and your Dad’s stories - unreal.. sad to hear about that.. Hope things improve soon!

Keen to hear your impressions of the LT though!

2019 911 GT3 RS,1964 Type 1

@james also looking forward to details on how that salesman attacked you! 

1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport

Grant:

Porker:

It's a sobering thing to hear/read that. I always considered 600LT/675LT as worthy successors to the GT3 but these things don't help their case...

No this is not good news, but there is also some bad news this morning from Porsche-land.  Our friend, Peter (Trakcar) has had his warranty voided by Porsche (no explanation yet), as he needs a brand new PDK for his 991.2 GT3 RS.  He is very upset and considering selling for an AMG GTR Pro...

--

 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

He tracked his car? No warranty. I know we discussed this endless times but Porsche is sometimes pretty anal about this stuff, also depends on the dealership and how they handle this. 

Speaking of McLaren: Gercollector's Senna is still at McLaren, the car is out of service for months now and it is not very likely he is getting the car back until mid(!) 2020. This is really insane. 

Speaking of batteries: I left my Huracan Performante over four weeks in the garage without firing it up once and the car still started on the first press of the starting button. Now I put it on a charger because my sales guy recommended it, according to him the battery lasts longer if I do that but to be honest, I usually leave my car(s) weeks in the garage without any trickle charging and they still start without issues.

Somebody here following Vehicle Virgins? His 600LT had a cracked windshield twice (for no apparent reason), his 720S loaner (as a courtesy from McLaren because he is an "influencer") had also a cracked windshield.

Also, I met a couple of McLaren owners over the past couple of months/years and with the exception of ALDO, none of them was actually very fond of the brand and/or the quality of service. However and this is weird: They still got one (again), which is difficult to understand for me. Apparently this is all about the performance and I guess there isn't really any alternative in this price range if you want a performance monster. 10 years ago, I would probably gotten myself a 720S, so I understand why people are still attracted to these monsters but I got passed this.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

 

Somebody here following Vehicle Virgins? His 600LT had a cracked windshield twice (for no apparent reason), his 720S loaner (as a courtesy from McLaren because he is an "influencer") had also a cracked windshield.

My 720 has had 2 cracked windshields and after talking with other owners they are all in about the same place half way down the side on the screen starting at the edge. My dealer told me a story about the supplier clamping the screens (for lifting) at the edges creating a weak point and that they have now changed supplier but sounded like BS to me.

The real scary thing is that I have been told that the factory extended warranty does NOT cover these cracked screens which is extremely worrying for future buyers.

Like you say despite niggles I am in the camp of adoring my Mclaren, my 720S  is sublime on so many levels, nothing out there could get a look in.

--

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

2018 McLaren 720S 

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

RC:

Grant:

Porker:

It's a sobering thing to hear/read that. I always considered 600LT/675LT as worthy successors to the GT3 but these things don't help their case...

No this is not good news, but there is also some bad news this morning from Porsche-land.  Our friend, Peter (Trakcar) has had his warranty voided by Porsche (no explanation yet), as he needs a brand new PDK for his 991.2 GT3 RS.  He is very upset and considering selling for an AMG GTR Pro...

--

 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

He tracked his car? No warranty. I know we discussed this endless times but Porsche is sometimes pretty anal about this stuff, also depends on the dealership and how they handle this. 

Speaking of McLaren: Gercollector's Senna is still at McLaren, the car is out of service for months now and it is not very likely he is getting the car back until mid(!) 2020. This is really insane. 

Speaking of batteries: I left my Huracan Performante over four weeks in the garage without firing it up once and the car still started on the first press of the starting button. Now I put it on a charger because my sales guy recommended it, according to him the battery lasts longer if I do that but to be honest, I usually leave my car(s) weeks in the garage without any trickle charging and they still start without issues.

Somebody here following Vehicle Virgins? His 600LT had a cracked windshield twice (for no apparent reason), his 720S loaner (as a courtesy from McLaren because he is an "influencer") had also a cracked windshield.

Also, I met a couple of McLaren owners over the past couple of months/years and with the exception of ALDO, none of them was actually very fond of the brand and/or the quality of service. However and this is weird: They still got one (again), which is difficult to understand for me. Apparently this is all about the performance and I guess there isn't really any alternative in this price range if you want a performance monster. 10 years ago, I would probably gotten myself a 720S, so I understand why people are still attracted to these monsters but I got passed this.

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

 

From my experience, it sounds like the dealer is totally an a..hole.

I have owned 650s spider for more than 2 years and I own now a 720 s copué for about 1 year.

I never have serious things with my 650s. All repairs where scheduled to be done during regular services. So no one day without car which wasn`t planned.

For 720 s is the same. My car is now at my dealer and it is there for more than a month but this was agreed so. I have told them they should keep it as long as they which but not longer than the end of March 2020. Some sensors need to be replaced.

So I could say, that I am very satisfied with the situation with my dealer. I could only talk for my two cars and my Mclaren Stuttgart dealer. If I remember that my Panamera turbo was towed in 1 year 11 times. During that time I have driven nearly 10.000 km in loaners (Macan, Cayman, Boxster and even Golf)!!!! Horrible experience with Porsche and my PZ.

Regarding charging the battery, that sounds also stupid. I think I have sometimes 2 months not re-charged the battery and could start the car, so the dealer is telling BS to the customer.

What my dealer has told me is to take care not to slam the door brutally. All the cars have automatic soft door closing. So we need just to softly pull the door. My dealer told me, that the screen above my head could crack and that is part of the warranty but the car must be 2-3 days at the dealer for that repair.

But that is my own experience - McLaren was all the time correct and Porsche, too. I did have some bad luck with my Panamera turbo and maybe more luck with my 650s and 720s. 

--

AM

Only cars that won't fire up without trickle charging come from Ferrari. Three weeks are enough to get you in trouble.

I have no idea what they do different, but the cars from Maranello are a PITA if you're not charging them regularly.

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

RC:

He tracked his car? No warranty. I know we discussed this endless times but Porsche is sometimes pretty anal about this stuff, also depends on the dealership and how they handle this. 

I don't want to speculate as to the reason for his warranty issues without all the facts.  When I learn the full story (with Peter's permission - and Peter is usually pretty candid publicly), I will report it here and we can discuss then.  However, at this time I don't think your explanation will be the final and complete conclusion.

--

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Rossi:

Only cars that won't fire up without trickle charging come from Ferrari. Three weeks are enough to get you in trouble.

I have no idea what they do different, but the cars from Maranello are a PITA if you're not charging them regularly.

Very simple fact : they install cheap POS batteries. For my Lusso I'm instructed to charge it if I don't drive it longer than a week! 

M3 CSL / Alpina D3 Bi-Turbo Touring / GT3RS Kermit

Bacchus:

Very simple fact : they install cheap POS batteries. For my Lusso I'm instructed to charge it if I don't drive it longer than a week! 

I would expect that they have a pretty hardcore (power-hungry) alarm system which would also increase the need for a battery tender.

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Bacchus:

Rossi:

Only cars that won't fire up without trickle charging come from Ferrari. Three weeks are enough to get you in trouble.

I have no idea what they do different, but the cars from Maranello are a PITA if you're not charging them regularly.

 

Very simple fact : they install cheap POS batteries. For my Lusso I'm instructed to charge it if I don't drive it longer than a week! 

The usual cause are electronic systems that don't completely shutoff when the car is not in use.  It doesn't take too much of a drop in voltage to put the ECU and other key electronic components in a safe mode that prevents the car from starting.  It isn't Ferrari that has this problem.  

Grant:

Bacchus:

Very simple fact : they install cheap POS batteries. For my Lusso I'm instructed to charge it if I don't drive it longer than a week! 

I would expect that they have a pretty hardcore (power-hungry) alarm system which would also increase the need for a battery tender.

Ferrari just have shitty electrical system period.

For mine before, I parked them inside my garage so they are not even locked or armed. I parked the FF Sunday and Saturday morning comes and the battery is dead. 

The other time with my F12 it was slightly better. about 2 weeks before the battery is dead.

You'd indeed expect not to face this problem, especially on a daily such as an FF or a Lusso.

Either give me a decent battery able to cope with the drainage or sort the electronics, but I guess it remains Italian after all 

Ferrari GTC4Lusso / Peugeot 205 Rallye

Whoopsy:

Grant:

Bacchus:

Very simple fact : they install cheap POS batteries. For my Lusso I'm instructed to charge it if I don't drive it longer than a week! 

I would expect that they have a pretty hardcore (power-hungry) alarm system which would also increase the need for a battery tender.

 

Ferrari just have shitty electrical system period.

For mine before, I parked them inside my garage so they are not even locked or armed. I parked the FF Sunday and Saturday morning comes and the battery is dead. 

The other time with my F12 it was slightly better. about 2 weeks before the battery is dead.

 

Yet, Magneti Marelli is a major Tier One supplier to the German automakers too.  

Italian suppliers build the quality they are ordered to build. 

My former Lancia Delta HF Integrale cars had the creme de la creme regarding injection, ECU, etc. but if this stuff isn't well "put together", it ends up in disaster and it did.  Had so many issues...typical Italian many would say.

Lamborghini Huracan Performante? Zero issues. This happens when you combine German tech and quality standards with Italian design and passion. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

Italian suppliers build the quality they are ordered to build. 

My former Lancia Delta HF Integrale cars had the creme de la creme regarding injection, ECU, etc. but if this stuff isn't well "put together", it ends up in disaster and it did.  Had so many issues...typical Italian many would say.

Lamborghini Huracan Performante? Zero issues. This happens when you combine German tech and quality standards with Italian design and passion. 

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

 

Same goes for the Urus - I am genuinely surprised by just how good it is.

I had my 650S for three years (15000km), and the only issue I had which I had to take it back is the door close/open senor was not function properly so while I was driving, it sensed the door was opened, and turns everything into safe mode, but it took less than 2hours to replace the sensor.

now I had my 720S for awhile, the door top glass roof does cracked once when I slam the door close, and many friends experience the same issue.  which McLaren had updated the rubber bracing around it now, and so far no further crack happened, we will see in time if that really fixed the problem.  also my rear air break senor had an issue and air-con sensor had an issue, which needed program upgrades which takes less than few hours to reboot, and 5000km still healthy. 

as for 600LT front window crack,  1 out of 8 owners experienced this crack, so the chances are high, but among the group that 7 others all had winshield protective film, so once that crack had fixed, he had put on the film right away, and so far I havn't heard of another crack on his car...........   yet.....  

McLaren Testing New V-6 Hybrid Supercar, Coming in 2021

The niche automaker is testing the Super Series replacement, which will feature a full-EV road-driving mode and a V-6 engine.

Wonder where McLaren is packing the batteries in this car? On top of the gas tank to 'prove' the P1 was designed as a hybrid and having the heavy batteries up high is by design and on purpose?

If they place the battery low this time around, it will just make them look foolish with their P1, and proved what everyone already knows, it was a emergency hack job to bring the P1 up to 918/La Ferrari level.

Whoopsy:

Wonder where McLaren is packing the batteries in this car? On top of the gas tank to 'prove' the P1 was designed as a hybrid and having the heavy batteries up high is by design and on purpose?

If they place the battery low this time around, it will just make them look foolish with their P1, and proved what everyone already knows, it was a emergency hack job to bring the P1 up to 918/La Ferrari level.

 

P1 is sold out and dusted since few years. you can always claim the tech evolves!

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

Couldn't this be the 570S successor... 

No manufacturer can make a powerful new car without a mild hybrid, to meet the emissions standards. 

The EU also wants to tighten emissions standards further, make them even more restrictive. I would be very surprised if any manufacturer can put a powerful sports car on the market without a mild hybrid...at least. Even the 992.2 Carrera models are rumoured to get a mild hybrid.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

Couldn't this be the 570S successor...

Yes, according to the article this is the 570S successor. V6 Hybrid.

the-missile:

Whoopsy:

Wonder where McLaren is packing the batteries in this car? On top of the gas tank to 'prove' the P1 was designed as a hybrid and having the heavy batteries up high is by design and on purpose?

If they place the battery low this time around, it will just make them look foolish with their P1, and proved what everyone already knows, it was a emergency hack job to bring the P1 up to 918/La Ferrari level.

 

P1 is sold out and dusted since few years. you can always claim the tech evolves!

You mean basic physics evolved? Like it used to be good to have weight up high, but now it's good to have them down low?

Whoopsy:

the-missile:.

P1 is sold out and dusted since few years. you can always claim the tech evolves!

 

You mean basic physics evolved? Like it used to be good to have weight up high, but now it's good to have them down low?

Nothing is surprising with car manufacturers. The last one is always the greatest 

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

Whoopsy:

the-missile:.

P1 is sold out and dusted since few years. you can always claim the tech evolves!

 

You mean basic physics evolved? Like it used to be good to have weight up high, but now it's good to have them down low?

Nothing is surprising with car manufacturers. The last one is always the greatest 

You mean like Porsche, Ferrari, etc were all wrong into putting the heaviest component down low? McLaren was right all along to put the battery up high?

McLaren never publicly admit their P1 was a compromised hack job, fitting hybrid system into it last minute and the shelf above the gas tank was the only place to put the hybrid batteries. 

McLaren is still a world class engineering firm, so let's see where they put the hybrid batteries on this new car. My guess is, they will move the gas tank, which will have variable weight depending on how full it is, ABOVE the hybrid batteries. It's how a properly engineered hybrid is done. 

--

Whoopsy:

the-missile:

Whoopsy:

the-missile:.

P1 is sold out and dusted since few years. you can always claim the tech evolves!

 

You mean basic physics evolved? Like it used to be good to have weight up high, but now it's good to have them down low?

Nothing is surprising with car manufacturers. The last one is always the greatest 

 

You mean like Porsche, Ferrari, etc were all wrong into putting the heaviest component down low? McLaren was right all along to put the battery up high?

McLaren never publicly admit their P1 was a compromised hack job, fitting hybrid system into it last minute and the shelf above the gas tank was the only place to put the hybrid batteries. 

McLaren is still a world class engineering firm, so let's see where they put the hybrid batteries on this new car. My guess is, they will move the gas tank, which will have variable weight depending on how full it is, ABOVE the hybrid batteries. It's how a properly engineered hybrid is done. 

What McLaren achieved in 10 years is very very good notwithstanding the gigantic gap in term of resources and experience with high end sportscar compared to the usual top guys.

Of course, the hybrid system inside the P1 was the last minute addition to compete with the top guys but hey, they did not take more than 4 years to develop it like the competition did and it delivered pretty well in term of performance. So all in all even with design errors it is still OK.

Now if they continue to develop new cars with that design error just for the sake of not admitting their past mistake, it is another story.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

P1 live is still looking absolutely fantastic ! Aged unbelievable well

the-missile:

Whoopsy:

the-missile:

Whoopsy:

the-missile:.

P1 is sold out and dusted since few years. you can always claim the tech evolves!

 

You mean basic physics evolved? Like it used to be good to have weight up high, but now it's good to have them down low?

Nothing is surprising with car manufacturers. The last one is always the greatest 

 

You mean like Porsche, Ferrari, etc were all wrong into putting the heaviest component down low? McLaren was right all along to put the battery up high?

McLaren never publicly admit their P1 was a compromised hack job, fitting hybrid system into it last minute and the shelf above the gas tank was the only place to put the hybrid batteries. 

McLaren is still a world class engineering firm, so let's see where they put the hybrid batteries on this new car. My guess is, they will move the gas tank, which will have variable weight depending on how full it is, ABOVE the hybrid batteries. It's how a properly engineered hybrid is done. 

What McLaren achieved in 10 years is very very good notwithstanding the gigantic gap in term of resources and experience with high end sportscar compared to the usual top guys.

Of course, the hybrid system inside the P1 was the last minute addition to compete with the top guys but hey, they did not take more than 4 years to develop it like the competition did and it delivered pretty well in term of performance. So all in all even with design errors it is still OK.

Now if they continue to develop new cars with that design error just for the sake of not admitting their past mistake, it is another story.

 

You know, it actually shows the prowess of McLaren's engineering skills. 

They only had a very short time to decide and add in the hybrid system. They are confined by the 12C platform for equipment placement, so literally they are working inside a very small box. 

Within the hard point locations of the 12C platform, they have no room to sandwich a e-motor between the engine and transmission like other manufacturers. They came up with a an elegant solution to substitute the starter motor with a e-motor and let that do double duty. Doesn't take up room lengthwise and they have spare room around the engine. Ingenious actually.

The rear parcel shelf is the only place for the batteries to go, So that's where they have to stash it. Battery capacity is limited but if they limit hybrid deployment to only full throttle usage, it will be enough. Another problem solved. 

Since the platform is RWD, there isn't a front axle regenerative braking to worry about and no need to spend time developing the blending braking system. To recharge the batteries, they simply code the engine to maintain revs and send the extra power to charge the battery when braking. Not quite as elegant as the LaFerrari system when they recapture the kinetic energy via the rear axle to charge the battery. But it works. And much simpler than the other 2. 

For the new car, I don't see them going AWD, but I do think they will recast the carbon tub to make room for the hybrid batteries to be relocated to the bottom of the chassis. As for the e-motor, since they are switching to a V6, they will have room lengthwise to sandwich the e-motor between the engine and the gearbox. This configuration allows for bigger and more powerful e-motors.

But they will re-write the software to properly deploy regenerative braking via the rear axle to capture kinetic energy instead of using the engine to charge the batteries. 

I think McLaren will put at least one AWD car on the market, they have to. It may be a SUV  or a sports car but just imagine the 765LT with AWD and only a 50 kg weight increase. This car would "kill" any other sports car out there. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)