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Dec 7, 2002 8:25:34 PM

dedam: Pilot; Loc: Holland , United States; Posts: 464, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 27, 2002

Cayenne Dealer introduction Germany and Pictures

Today we drove to Germany and visited the dealer presentation
And we where impressed by the Cayenne and the presentation

Some Cayenne facts
-Cayenne looks much better in real
-Cayenne is a Porsche right away when you see the car for the first time
-Cayenne is bigger them we tought
-My wife likes the car!!!!!!
-first time you sit in the car it feel OK and comfetable and the seats are great

Intoduction facts
-Cayenne turbo titanic grey

-Cayenne S bleu?grey
-Cayenne S green/havanna
-3 bars
-Pinano player live
-wine teaster for wine for germany
-two gamble tables Rolettte/blackjack
-real gras in showroom
-putting green and golf intructor
-Moblie IMAX theatre outside playing Cayenne video
-food,food and more food
-Red carpet
-lots off people wearing firmcoats(mink)

(we do not like that but in Germany they do)
-I was the only one in jeans i was very much underdressed for the German market

-Lots off Mercedes S and BMW X5 on the parkinglot.

It was trill seeking going flat out on the Autobahn!!!!!!

My Porsche loves the Autobahn
Monday I am going to cut out my PCM the system just s..ks 200 km to much because the PCM makes strange routes

No jeans

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Dec 7, 2002 9:40:42 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: dedam

It is interesting how...

...people have different tastes.

Yes, the Cayenne looks like a real Porsche because it looks, as my wife said today, like a pumped up 911 Turbo.

I actually think that the Cayenne looks exactly as on the pictures...boring and not spectacular at all.
The Cayenne is actually smaller than we thought, today we checked the luggage compartment and found out that it is smaller than on our ML which was quite a disappointment. However the leg room in the rear is much bigger than on our ML, this is true. But with a little child, the space for luggage is much more important for us.
My wife hates the Cayenne because it looks too conservative and boring. Her words: "if you buy this thing, you drive it alone".
We both agreed however that the quality look and feel, especially of the interior, is much better than on our ML.

So as you can see...these are our facts.

I'll testdrive the Cayenne Turbo for a whole day on Friday and I'm curious to learn if it stands to it's promises or not.
The engine should be great, no doubt about it. But I want to know if the weight really can't be felt during harsh driving. The off-road capabilities are not that important for me and I'm sure that CR will take care of that during his own testride.

The Cayenne Turbo will sell like hell, no doubt about it. But the main reason for this success is that there is no competitor right now. Maybe BMW and Mercedes are making a huge mistake to allow Porsche to step into the SUV market.
A ML 55 AMG with 460 HP for 10000 EUR less and the Cayenne Turbo would be in trouble. Time will tell.

Yes, I can't get used to a Porsche SUV...no matter how good it might be. Sorry, guys.

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Dec 7, 2002 10:42:45 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Wow!!! Great photos. Wish I lived in Europe!

RC: We don't mind your reservations for the Cayenne; you continue to bring us great insider information on this vehicle plus, over time, you may begin to change your mind.

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Dec 7, 2002 11:08:08 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: dedam

Dec 8, 2002 10:11:06 AM

dedam: Pilot; Loc: Holland , United States; Posts: 464, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 27, 2002; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Dealer presentation

I noticed at the dealer presentation a lot of people who own a SUV already do not like the Cayenne
People not owning a SUV and new to the market seem to like the Cayenne very much (like us)
Why?

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Dec 8, 2002 1:17:23 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: dedam

Re: Dealer presentation

In reply to:
I noticed at the dealer presentation a lot of people who own a SUV already do not like the Cayenne
People not owning a SUV and new to the market seem to like the Cayenne very much (like us)

I try to do some speculation: people who already own a SUV expected something new, something special and something revolutionary which would make them sell their SUV and go for the Cayenne instead. How sad when these people (like me) found out that the Cayenne is just another ordinary, super heavy SUV which lacks style. People who already own a SUV also don't like the fact that the Cayenne looks like a pumped up 911.
People who don't own a SUV yet (like you) have high expectations which can't be met. The Cayenne is no sportscar and especially the Cayenne S drives like any ordinary BMW X5is or Mercedes ML55. One reason why most people ordered the Cayenne Turbo over here in Germany because the "S" wouldn't be any "upgrade" to their "ordinary" SUV. However the "S" is a bargain compared to the X5is and ML55, this is true.

My guess is that the Cayenne will hurt Porsche sports car sales seriously. And my other guess is that although the Cayenne will sell very well in the first production year, a lot of buyers will be disappointed that they bought "just another ordinary SUV". The Cayenne is no revolution in the style department (on the contrary), it is no revolution in handling (although the version with air suspension will "compensate" a lot of the weight) and regarding the weight of the Cayenne, Porsche did a very very bad job. Where is the lightweight technology we admire on the 911?

This is funny: at the beginning, I didn't like the idea of a SUV. Then, I actually started to support this idea and even thought that the Cayenne might be a breakthrough in SUV technology and design. But unfortunately we got "just another" SUV. Yes, it looks like a Porsche but no, it doesn't drive like one. The electronics (air suspension, etc) enhance the drive feel and compensate the weight but if you order a Cayenne S with the ordinary suspension, I bet you get the same drive feel as in any well made SUV like X5 or ML.

Yes, I am disappointed with the Cayenne and even if Porsche is testdriving 600 HP versions of the Turbo right now, I'm not impressed at all. Also the price difference between the "S" and the Turbo is pretty strange, almost 40000 EUR premium.

So I think I'll stay with a real Porsche, my 996 Turbo and go for a real SUV next time when Mercedes starts to build the 460 HP ML55 around 2004. Yes, the Cayenne Turbo is a nice SUV and I don't doubt it. But I still think that Porsche is a sports car manufacturer and Mercedes does better SUVs.
Oh boy, the Cayenne Turbo weights 100 kg more than my ML55...this is shocking.

Maybe Porsche should have invested less time in enhancing the off-road capabilities and more time in enhancing the design and the on-road capabilities. A 2000 kg Cayenne Turbo with a freshier design at a 90000 EUR price tag would have got my thoughts. Right now I better drive my ML55 and enjoy my 996 Turbo whenever I can.

But maybe I change my mind after the testride on Friday?

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Dec 8, 2002 2:29:17 PM

dedam: Pilot; Loc: Holland , United States; Posts: 464, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 27, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Dealer presentation

I agree with your speculation
I hope you will have fun next Friday
Somehow there must be a reason for the weight of the car compared to the other SUV. Does someone knows more on this forum about the weight factor ????
In Holland the Turbo is 57000 euro's more expensive to the CayenneS and still they sell 60%S 40%Turbo(unbelivable)

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Dec 9, 2002 3:16:37 PM

EricAlain: Veteran; Loc: Paris, France , France; Posts: 1037, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2002; Reply to: dedam

Re: Dealer presentation

I don't think, Cayenne sales will hurt Porsche sports car sales because we all know a Cayenne will not drive nor feel like a 911. I don't think we'll see any Cayenne on the track during Porsche events!!!

Porsche decided to built the Cayenne because according to their research, the "average" Porsche owner in the US has 3 cars. A Porsche (surprise surprise), a foreign sedan (i.e. Mercedes, BMW or Lexus) and a SUV. Secondly as the Porsche is the "third" car, it's more a "weekend" car than anything else and therefore, the owner isn't pilling a lot of miles on his Porsche with an average of 5-6,000 miles per year compared to 10-12,000 for a regular sedan or SUV. If the Porsche isn't driven much, it doesn't need to be serviced a lot and dealers are struggling.

Porsche AG realized they couldn't built a sedan, it would be too close to their sportscar line and the competition is already very tough. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus already have a huge franchise and clients are really loyal to the brand.

On the other hand, the SUV market is still fast growing in the US and exploding in Europe as it's a new phenomenon. Competition isn't too tough. Americans are only present in the mass market with crappy products. Lexus is the only Japanese maker in the luxury segment with 2 products but none of them are "sporty". The RX 300 is nice but it's small and it's not a sportscar and the LX 470 is a rebadged Toyota which is as stylish as a tanker. The ML is a good product even if its interior is "american quality". The Range Rover is for pure excentric people because it's so unrealiable but so charming. The X5 is the only serious competitor.

By building a SUV, Porsche decided to tap a all new market for them where there will be no overlap with their sports cars. The Cayenne driver will be able to drive a car with the Porsche crest everyday will put more miles on the car and will go more often to the dealership .... where you can establish a long term relationship and make sure clients are more loyal.

It cost on average 8-9x more to attact a new client rather than to keep an existing one.... So if your Porsche dealer will see you twice a year at least, once for the Cayenne and once for the 911 or Boxster, chances are you'll be more loyal to the brand.

So bottom line, I think this strategy will work (at least for me). I'll be driving the Cayenne as my daily commuter car and I'll keep my 911 cab for weekends.

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Dec 9, 2002 4:26:11 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: EricAlain

Re: Dealer presentation

In reply to:
Porsche decided to built the Cayenne because according to their research, the "average" Porsche owner in the US has 3 cars.

Well, this may be true regarding the US market. I think that the Cayenne S will sell best in the US. In Germany and some other markets, things look different: the Cayenne Turbo is the one which is sold most. Which indicates that either people have too much money or they consider getting rid of their Porsche sports car and drive the Cayenne Turbo only (which would be my guess as far as I learned from different discussions with various Porsche owners).
My 996 Turbo is sitting most of the time in the garage, it would be interesting to buy a Cayenne Turbo instead and a lot of people think the same. Unfortunately (or fortunately?

) I don't like the Cayenne too much but maybe this will change as time passes by.

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Dec 9, 2002 4:56:35 PM

EricAlain: Veteran; Loc: Paris, France , France; Posts: 1037, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Dealer presentation

You are right, may be the "average" European Porsche driver is different from the American one.

If I were you, I wouldn't sell my 996 Turbo to buy a Cayenne Turbo. They are 2 completely different animals. It's unfair to compare them. I'm sure you would regret this decision immediately.

I'm not expecting the Cayenne to handle nor to feel like a sportscar but more like a sedan. Right now most SUVs drive like trucks or "boats". I will be thrilled if my Cayenne drives like a 5 series station wagon or an E-class station wagon or like an A6 Avant or an A6 Allroad. I believe they are more or less the same size (not weight !!!!!!) and they offer roughly the same cargo area.

I honestly doubt I'll do serious off-road with the Cayenne

I see my future Cayenne S as a "sporty" familly car and my 911 as my "toy" even if I can drive it everyday (which I did for 2 years). It will be the best of both worlds with 2 porsche in the garage !!!! I'll love to have a 3rd one a 73 2.7l RS .... But this is another story

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Dec 9, 2002 5:19:52 PM

art.italy: Co-Pilot; Loc: Italy , Italy; Posts: 291, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Dealer presentation

RC, I respect your opinion, but I'm not sure that this applies to everyboby even here in europe. I ordered a Cayenne turbo (jan 03 dely.) and I will absolutely keep my 911 turbo. Are two totally diffent cars, the Cayenne will take the place of an Audi S6, not of the turbo.
This is my case, for sure somebody else will replace the 911..

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Dec 9, 2002 5:23:59 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: EricAlain

Re: Dealer presentation

A 1973 2.7L 911 RS ducktail,
Now we're talking

To some simply the purest 911 ever.
Fanch.

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Dec 9, 2002 6:02:14 PM

EricAlain: Veteran; Loc: Paris, France , France; Posts: 1037, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: Dealer presentation

I can't agree more ..... the 73 2.7l RS .... The purest 911 ever produced.

One day I'll buy one and I'll have fun with it (I'll race it gently) .... May be like in the picture produce by Porsche AG, I'll pull it with the Cayenne S (not the turbo like on the picture...). We can always dream...

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Dec 10, 2002 2:24:36 AM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: EricAlain

Re: Dealer presentation

EricAlain: What an insightful analysis of the Cayenne marketing, at least for the US market. I agree with you 100%.

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Cayenne Dealer introduction Germany and Pictures

It is interesting how...

Wow!!! Great photos. Wish I lived in Europe!

Real nice pictures thanks, (nt)

Dealer presentation

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