Crown

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

I’m not PC at all but I still don’t find it that funny but I do understand your point, of course. Then again, you may also understand that sometimes it can be insulting and it can get old. I think there are better ways to make a point. 

 

Perhaps it might felt insulting at times but truth hurts. It is what it is. You know me long enough here to know that I am blunt and direct.

Modern society now much prefer everything to be sugar coated and goes down easy. Sugar coated shit is still shit, might as well be a man and eat it straight up. 

You might as well heard of the world's view of American tourists. Most think they are loud and obnoxious. They tolerate them only because they have money to spend. I have to imagine you are not one of those and most of my American friends aren't, but when you traveled the merchants and others still assumed you are like those. You can thank your fellow country man for that reputation.

Stereotypes exist for a reason and often groups based on nationality and ethnicity do conform those preconceived stereotypes.  What someone here on this forum or in another country, state, or city think about others remains indifferent with me.  

Our form of government is unique in the world and the reason President Reagan spoke about, "the shining city on the hill" in a speech to describe the United States.   Sometimes, we meet that expectation and sometimes we don't.  The current president more closely upholds the values of our Founding Fathers' vision than quite a few of his predecessors. The reasons are manifold and one doesn't expect someone not a citizen to understand the differences.  Hell, quite a few citizens don't understand the differences either.  

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

I’m not PC at all but I still don’t find it that funny but I do understand your point, of course. Then again, you may also understand that sometimes it can be insulting and it can get old. I think there are better ways to make a point. 

 

Perhaps it might felt insulting at times but truth hurts. It is what it is. You know me long enough here to know that I am blunt and direct.

Modern society now much prefer everything to be sugar coated and goes down easy. Sugar coated shit is still shit, might as well be a man and eat it straight up. 

You might as well heard of the world's view of American tourists. Most think they are loud and obnoxious. They tolerate them only because they have money to spend. I have to imagine you are not one of those and most of my American friends aren't, but when you traveled the merchants and others still assumed you are like those. You can thank your fellow country man for that reputation.

 Political correctness is a serious issue nowadays...especially since people easily label non-conformists as racists. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Please focus this thread on the Taycan.  Thanks.

Wonderbar:

Please focus this thread on the Taycan.  Thanks.

Sorry about that. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqiEMU7sDMU

18:40+

So got the message form my Porsche dealer, my Taycan Turbo is delayed from production December to production end of March. The strange thing is that the Taycan 4S from January production are not delayed.. Does anybody of this well informed forum know why there are these delays?

JR-550:

So got the message form my Porsche dealer, my Taycan Turbo is delayed from production December to production end of March. The strange thing is that the Taycan 4S from January production are not delayed.. Does anybody of this well informed forum know why there are these delays?

When I visited the Porsche factory in Zuffenhausen at the end of October (with our Porsche Club) the guide mentioned that the production of Taycans was achieving only ~50% ot the daily targets and that deliveries to end customers would be delayed. He did not elaborate on the reasons. 

m4ever:

JR-550:

So got the message form my Porsche dealer, my Taycan Turbo is delayed from production December to production end of March. The strange thing is that the Taycan 4S from January production are not delayed.. Does anybody of this well informed forum know why there are these delays?

When I visited the Porsche factory in Zuffenhausen at the end of October (with our Porsche Club) the guide mentioned that the production of Taycans was achieving only ~50% ot the daily targets and that deliveries to end customers would be delayed. He did not elaborate on the reasons. 

My guess (judging from the rumors I heard): Suppliers and supplier quality. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

The supplier/start up delays are not surprising given this is not only a new model, but totally new technology. 

2016 Porsche 991 Carrera GTS  Black with AeroKit Cup Package,  2017 Porsche Cayenne Platinum  Purpurite Metallic, New York

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vq6KEOIiMg

And he proves me right that the Taycan, or any other car for that matters, don't need touch screens.

Touch screens creative problems in cars, not solving them. And car makers use them to solve problems that don't exist before. Look no farther than the volume control and air vent controls. 

+1

Whoopsy:

And he proves me right that the Taycan, or any other car for that matters, don't need touch screens.

Touch screens creative problems in cars, not solving them. And car makers use them to solve problems that don't exist before. Look no farther than the volume control and air vent controls. 

 

I disagree...a few weeks ago I would have agreed with you. The E63 S had a pretty awesome infotainment system but without touch screen. Now I have the GLC63 S with MBUX and a touch screen and it really works well. 

The reason for it working well is probably the fact that the display sits above the vents, so it is actually easily reachable and I can even "rest" my hand on the vents while touching the display, giving me an improved feel of stability (not sure this is the reason why they put that thing above the vents but it works). Also, the touch icons are so big that it is almost impossible to "miss" a "button". I like it a lot.

The best thing about MBUX however is the new speech recognition and operation: It works similar to Siri/Alexa/Cortana and does a pretty good job. I can talk fast, I can use descriptive language instead of clear commands and the system seems to learn.

So in the end, I think that improved speech recognition systems will be the breakthrough here, with visual and audio confirmation of some sorts. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

I get what you are saying, it might be a better implementation of touch screen than most in the MB, but Nick is still right, it is still an unnecessary complication that "while driving" is still inferior to buttons and knobs. 

The reason they are used is to give a more futuristic look like in the Taycan, not because it is more functional and less distracting to operate while driving.

It is ok to have a touch screen for the less used controls and to easily set up settings and configurations of different functions through menus, infotainment system, apple/android car, etc, but for all those functions that are used more frequently they are a dangerous and an unnecessary fad. There is a reason why operating a device with a screen (ex Tom Tom GPS) while driving is illegal in many countries.

Also we tend to judge things based on our own experience and we here are on average better and more experienced drivers than the average driver, but many drivers out there are already pretty negligent at driving, they don't need the distraction of having to split their attention with touch screens...

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

I get what you are saying, it might be a better implementation of touch screen than most in the MB, but Nick is still right, it is still an unnecessary complication that "while driving" is still inferior to buttons and knobs. 

No, it isn't, this is what I am trying to say here. I was surprised myself, never liked touch screens in cars.

The reason they are used is to give a more futuristic look like in the Taycan, not because it is more functional and less distracting to operate while driving.

It seems to be more functional when the implementation is done right.

It is ok to have a touch screen for the less used controls and to easily set up settings and configurations of different functions through menus, infotainment system, apple/android car, etc, but for all those functions that are used more frequently they are a dangerous and an unnecessary fad. There is a reason why operating a device with a screen (ex Tom Tom GPS) while driving is illegal in many countries.

I do not like touch screens for basic functions like turning on lights or heat seating, whatever but for other functions, it can be quite useful. Also, voice commands are the best way in my opinion, I am really amazed how well voice recognition works with MBUX in my GLC. Had voice recognition in many cars but this is a first that I really like it.

Also we tend to judge things based on our own experience and we here are on average better and more experienced drivers than the average driver, but many drivers out there are already pretty negligent at driving, they don't need the distraction of having to split their attention with touch screens...

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Of course we judge things by our own experience, it makes sense. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

I now like the touch screen mostly due to the fact that I use autopilot frequently and when that is the case one can much more safely use the touch screen.  There are very few functions I need it for once driving though. The climate settings remain constant and don’t change often and many radio functions are still available on the wheel and so are cruise control functions like speed and following distance. Seat and mirror settings as well as wheel settings are done while stopped prior to driving and are part of your driver profile settings.  It is all so logical that when I look at any buttons and switches all over the place it just feels messy and out of order. 
what functions are you guys accessing while driving that are so dangerous and necessary?   Just curious?  

Touch screens, especially with deep menus, can be a distraction for the driver. Making a simplistic voice interface that works reliably would be an ideal solution to the distraction problem, but buttons and dials would be a nice analogue touch to a digital car, IMHO. Also, the piped in "sport mode" electrical noises are humorous; does that provide any vindication to BMW? 

I have voice command in my Q7 and in my GT3 RS .  I never use it , don't even think about using it . The very few times I tried i did find it conter efficient .

Do you guys use voice control in your cars ? 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

The voice control in the Porsches is very poor. I did a test drive in de Mercedes ECQ, here the voice control really works. I agree ith RC with the new Mbux the voice control is extreemly good. The ECQ bye the way is a real nice drivng car!

Gnil:

I have voice command in my Q7 and in my GT3 RS .  I never use it , don't even think about using it . The very few times I tried i did find it conter efficient .

Do you guys use voice control in your cars ? 

I don't, except for entering destinations into nav that I don't send to the car from my phone before I depart. There are a lot of possible commands available, but I prefer to use the traditional controls. 

I use VC only to call/answer phone or send/receive messages.

Gnil:

I have voice command in my Q7 and in my GT3 RS .  I never use it , don't even think about using it . The very few times I tried i did find it conter efficient .

Do you guys use voice control in your cars ? 

Never ever, across many brands' version of voice control.

Heck, I don't even try to use Siri with CarPlay. At times it might get it right, but most of the time it gets it wrong and it's distracting and frustrating to try and correct them.

BMW iDirve is still the best input device. I can concentrate on driving, and when safe, I can enter some characters with the rotary dial, and most of the time I don't even need to look, as I know a O comes right after a N. And the input stays there until your next input as it doesn't time out, I can spend as long as needed to enter say navi destination. 

Leawood911:

I now like the touch screen mostly due to the fact that I use autopilot frequently and when that is the case one can much more safely use the touch screen.  There are very few functions I need it for once driving though. The climate settings remain constant and don’t change often and many radio functions are still available on the wheel and so are cruise control functions like speed and following distance. Seat and mirror settings as well as wheel settings are done while stopped prior to driving and are part of your driver profile settings.  It is all so logical that when I look at any buttons and switches all over the place it just feels messy and out of order. 
what functions are you guys accessing while driving that are so dangerous and necessary?   Just curious?  

So that means Tesla knows using a touchscreen is dangerous in a car, so they created the autopilot thingy so drivers can use the touchscreen safer

That's like putting the cart before the horse logic.

I am really not that difficult I think.

All I wanted is a physical volume knob to control volume and mute, a rotary dial for input and scrolling, manual vent controls, physical windows buttons and physical seat controls, physical turn signals and physical steering wheel and foot pedals, a button easily accessible for turning off start stop function, and a button to answer and end calls. Everything else can be buried somewhere. That's like 10 buttons total if I am in a 4 door car.

+1 again

+2

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

I will, however, admit that I am pretty old school. My experience with Porsches dates back to 1965, when they were no buttons whatsoever except for AM station selection buttons on the Blaupunkt radio.  And even on my 2018 Panamera Turbo, I enjoy just plain driving, operating turn signals when necessary, and sending and receiving text messages and phone calls. I do use the touch buttons for seat heating and ventilation, and for retracting the side mirrors automatically. I prefer the toggle switches for heating and air-conditioning regulation.

Also, I drive for pleasure only, and rarely on long trips over 200 miles. I have had my car for over two years and, though I drive it daily, have less than 13,000 miles on the odometer. I’m sure I’m no longer Porsche’s young and modern demographic which I think Porsche is shooting for with all the modern touch screens, etc.

Whoopsy:

I am really not that difficult I think.

All I wanted is a physical volume knob to control volume and mute, a rotary dial for input and scrolling, manual vent controls, physical windows buttons and physical seat controls, physical turn signals and physical steering wheel and foot pedals, a button easily accessible for turning off start stop function, and a button to answer and end calls. Everything else can be buried somewhere. That's like 10 buttons total if I am in a 4 door car.

 

Those are all buttons in the tesla 3 and not part of the touch screen.  Including the very handy buttons on the wheel. The seat adjustment and window switches etc. are all normal switches. The only thing that excites people is the glovebox button so people assume everything is in the touchscreen. It is just that the touch screen allows so many new functions  not even found in the others there would be no other way.  As far as the vent controls even Porsche tried to copy them and frankly once set you don’t need to use them again. But I do like them the new way. 
In terms of chicken or the egg regarding touch screen safety I would consider the autopilot and other safety features as the answer to distracting touchscreen controls.  The Tesla may be the safest place on wheels with a touch screen . At any rate. Like I mentioned. Except for the vent controls which are superior in the model 3 everything you ask for is just like you want it.  All the other functions are for setup, entertainment when charging or navigation. Can’t complain that you have internet access and a built in web browser.  It is almost like complaining about having too much stuff or money!  Does not seem like a problem to me. 
sorry - you can’t have a start stop feature disable button. The hold function when stopped is so logical though - best thing ever. 

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

I am really not that difficult I think.

All I wanted is a physical volume knob to control volume and mute, a rotary dial for input and scrolling, manual vent controls, physical windows buttons and physical seat controls, physical turn signals and physical steering wheel and foot pedals, a button easily accessible for turning off start stop function, and a button to answer and end calls. Everything else can be buried somewhere. That's like 10 buttons total if I am in a 4 door car.

 

Those are all buttons in the tesla 3 and not part of the touch screen.  Including the very handy buttons on the wheel. The seat adjustment and window switches etc. are all normal switches. The only thing that excites people is the glovebox button so people assume everything is in the touchscreen. It is just that the touch screen allows so many new functions  not even found in the others there would be no other way.  As far as the vent controls even Porsche tried to copy them and frankly once set you don’t need to use them again. But I do like them the new way. 
In terms of chicken or the egg regarding touch screen safety I would consider the autopilot and other safety features as the answer to distracting touchscreen controls.  The Tesla may be the safest place on wheels with a touch screen . At any rate. Like I mentioned. Except for the vent controls which are superior in the model 3 everything you ask for is just like you want it.  All the other functions are for setup, entertainment when charging or navigation. Can’t complain that you have internet access and a built in web browser.  It is almost like complaining about having too much stuff or money!  Does not seem like a problem to me. 
sorry - you can’t have a start stop feature disable button. The hold function when stopped is so logical though - best thing ever. 

Steering wheel buttons don't count. And the Model 3 don't have a volume control knob either.

My Ridgeline has the touch screen volume control, but it has volume buttons on the steering wheel at least, but still takes time to lower or raise the volume as oppose to a turn of the knob. 

Electronic vent control is one of the stupidest thing every invented. It's a solution to not even a problem. WHY!!!!!!!

It's so much quicker and easier to use one's fingers to move the vents to the exact location, and takes a fraction of a second to turn the airflow away or completely off instead of wasting time digging through menu. 

And the start stop thing, of course EV cars don't have one, my e-Tron don't have it, netter do my 2 hybrids.

Btw Leawood, see? I am not only picking on your beloved Teslas, this is Porsche that I am criticizing too which I have no problem complaining. I simply say things as it is no matter the brand.