Dec 5, 2002 11:32:13 AM
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Ron (Houston)
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Dec 5, 2002 4:26:25 PM
- Tschebru
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: 997 Exhuast
i don't think ths is the final design of the exhaust, weather the car. i think this car is very similar to the actual 996 and and wont be so different. this will be a facelift i think. and the real "next" porsche will come a bit later.
but maybe i'm not true. could be that they don't plan to make so much change.
i don't think this exhaust will be like on the picture. I HOPE SO
cause i don't ie it
but maybe i'm not true. could be that they don't plan to make so much change.
i don't think this exhaust will be like on the picture. I HOPE SO
cause i don't ie it
Dec 5, 2002 4:35:10 PM
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zzboba
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: 997 Exhuast
i would rather suppose that the two twinpipe exhausts are for the 8cyl engine (4 pipes for a six? a little O.T.T. -- like the M3), but it's unlikely that the 997 gets anything else than a flat6. IMO the porsche V8 (or V10) will see the light of day installed in a 998.
on the other hand, porsches ugly new turbo/4s-tequpiment "sports tail pipe" has a kind of twinpipe look... even if one pipe is blind each.
...anything's possible, i have no idea actually
on the other hand, porsches ugly new turbo/4s-tequpiment "sports tail pipe" has a kind of twinpipe look... even if one pipe is blind each.
...anything's possible, i have no idea actually
Speculations...
I agree with Tchebru,
All new 911 not quite there yet.
Durheimer stated that there is no way the 911 will ever get anything else than a Flat 6 because a V8 would completely ruin the car's balance which lets face it, with it hanging behind the rear wheels, is aready not the best place.
I think we will see the V8 in an all new 4th GT model, let's call it the "GT" in which case the "S" version of that 4th model could maybe get the Carrera GT V10.
Speculations, speculations, speculations...
Hopefully, will know more next year after my visit to Weissach (hopefuly some time in march
)
Take care,
Fanch.
All new 911 not quite there yet.
Durheimer stated that there is no way the 911 will ever get anything else than a Flat 6 because a V8 would completely ruin the car's balance which lets face it, with it hanging behind the rear wheels, is aready not the best place.
I think we will see the V8 in an all new 4th GT model, let's call it the "GT" in which case the "S" version of that 4th model could maybe get the Carrera GT V10.
Speculations, speculations, speculations...
Hopefully, will know more next year after my visit to Weissach (hopefuly some time in march
)Take care,
Fanch.
Dec 5, 2002 11:21:01 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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Reply to:
Futch
Re: Speculations...
i've read in a UK mag that the 998 will get a flat six and optional a V8 (or maybe a V10) -- a mid-engine 911 without rear seats.
more details here:
http://www.rennteam.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=porsche&Number=4680&page=&view=&sb=&o=
more details here:
http://www.rennteam.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=porsche&Number=4680&page=&view=&sb=&o=
Re: Speculations...
Hi Fanch,
I think Porsche will sell two types of engine: the flat six and a V8 or V10.
Why? Just easy: we're always discussing about engine power on this board and Porsche has to give more power to us.
But how much power can they get out of a flat six without turbo?
The Turbo will always be the top model.
But the n/a-911 have to be competitive in the future too, compared to S55, E55, M3 V8, M5, M6, ....
For example: to get 450 hp - how big must it be? 5,0 litres? A flat 6?
So to increase power you need a new concept, but Porsche don't know if the new motor will be accepted by the flat-six-fans.
If it is, I'm sure, that the 997 is the last 911 with flat six motor.
Agreed?
Regards
Wolfgang
P.S.: Christian, considering these power-figures, the Turbo would surely have 600 hp...
I think Porsche will sell two types of engine: the flat six and a V8 or V10.
Why? Just easy: we're always discussing about engine power on this board and Porsche has to give more power to us.
But how much power can they get out of a flat six without turbo?
The Turbo will always be the top model.
But the n/a-911 have to be competitive in the future too, compared to S55, E55, M3 V8, M5, M6, ....
For example: to get 450 hp - how big must it be? 5,0 litres? A flat 6?
So to increase power you need a new concept, but Porsche don't know if the new motor will be accepted by the flat-six-fans.
If it is, I'm sure, that the 997 is the last 911 with flat six motor.
Agreed?
Regards
Wolfgang
P.S.: Christian, considering these power-figures, the Turbo would surely have 600 hp...
Re: Speculations...
Yes you have a point Wolfgang, more power.
Or less weight?
That's also a possibility.
We'll see...
Porsche rarely disappoints to be honest.
One thing though, how do you deal with the weight distribution problem?
Aready, the 911 has 62% of its weight over the rear wheels which is not great but engineers have managed to pull it off.
With 2 added cylinders, the weight of the engine will be substantially increased!
It could go to what? 65, 70% over the rear wheels, clearly, that's not an option.
There are others engineering solution, Flat 6, 4L, direct fuel injection, variocam plus (2005 version), alumilium or ultra light steel, 400bhp, that's just an idea though.
V8 sounds great too, just concerned about the weight distribution.
Fanch.
Or less weight?
That's also a possibility.
We'll see...
Porsche rarely disappoints to be honest.
One thing though, how do you deal with the weight distribution problem?
Aready, the 911 has 62% of its weight over the rear wheels which is not great but engineers have managed to pull it off.
With 2 added cylinders, the weight of the engine will be substantially increased!
It could go to what? 65, 70% over the rear wheels, clearly, that's not an option.
There are others engineering solution, Flat 6, 4L, direct fuel injection, variocam plus (2005 version), alumilium or ultra light steel, 400bhp
, that's just an idea though.V8 sounds great too, just concerned about the weight distribution.
Fanch.
Re: Speculations...
if there will be a V8/V10 it'll be moved in the center of the 911, where the rear seats currently are. so it'll be an mid engined car and could get an even better weight ratio than the current 996 -- a V8/V10 is too tall and IMO wouldn't fit in the rear like the flat six anyway.
i agree that this could be blasphemy for hardcore 911 enthusiasts. but porsche recently wasn't too caring about sacred cows. having to accept all terrain vehicles in porsche showrooms personally makes me more problems than imagining a mid engine V8 in a 911
and... it'll be an option. so 911 buyers still can decide to go for the flat six. and porsche IMO will NEVER drop the flat six for the 911 completely.
i agree that this could be blasphemy for hardcore 911 enthusiasts. but porsche recently wasn't too caring about sacred cows. having to accept all terrain vehicles in porsche showrooms personally makes me more problems than imagining a mid engine V8 in a 911
and... it'll be an option. so 911 buyers still can decide to go for the flat six. and porsche IMO will NEVER drop the flat six for the 911 completely.
Re: Speculations...
"Aready, the 911 has 62% of its weight over the rear wheels which is not great but engineers have managed to pull it off.
With 2 added cylinders, the weight of the engine will be substantially increased! "
With this statement I can't agree. Because of the fact that as far as I know, and also heard from some people, the 60 - 40 solution is almost the best. It gives you a good traction, and avoids wheelspin out of curves. So you can bring the power on the road much better, than with a front engine 50 - 50 balanced car.
But of course the front motor 50 - 50 is much safer and much easier to handle. So it depends how you like it, very safe and convinient. Or you like maximum traction on the driving wheels.
Every concept brings his pros and contras with it. I don't think there is a perfekt concept, as I said it depends how do you look at it and what you prefer.
Avi
With 2 added cylinders, the weight of the engine will be substantially increased! "
With this statement I can't agree. Because of the fact that as far as I know, and also heard from some people, the 60 - 40 solution is almost the best. It gives you a good traction, and avoids wheelspin out of curves. So you can bring the power on the road much better, than with a front engine 50 - 50 balanced car.
But of course the front motor 50 - 50 is much safer and much easier to handle. So it depends how you like it, very safe and convinient. Or you like maximum traction on the driving wheels.
Every concept brings his pros and contras with it. I don't think there is a perfekt concept, as I said it depends how do you look at it and what you prefer.
Avi
Re: Speculations...
"Every concept brings his pros and contras with it. I don't think there is a perfekt concept, as I said it depends how do you look at it and what you prefer. "
Exactly, so the point is there is no best.
But the rear engined design is an extreme to say the least.
I mean, look for yourself, how many model today in production have a rear engine?
Errm... One?
The problem is the heavy back is not to everyone's taste, I like it IMO, easier to feel what the car is telling you than a Mid-engined, the slide is very progressive.
But on the the hand, lots of weight at the back means heavy understeer...
From a efficiency point of view, I'm no pro but I think mid engined is probably best, I mean,
Carrera GT (mid engined)
Enzo (mid engined)
Formula 1 cars, mid engined,
This speaks for itself no?
But at the end of the day, no perfect solution.
In everyday driving, I don't feel the rear engined configuration of my car, that's how good Weissach's engineers are.
But if I drive sporty, then the old 911 rule applies
Slow IN, fast OUT!
Fanch.
Exactly, so the point is there is no best.
But the rear engined design is an extreme to say the least.
I mean, look for yourself, how many model today in production have a rear engine?
Errm... One?
The problem is the heavy back is not to everyone's taste, I like it IMO, easier to feel what the car is telling you than a Mid-engined, the slide is very progressive.
But on the the hand, lots of weight at the back means heavy understeer...
From a efficiency point of view, I'm no pro but I think mid engined is probably best, I mean,
Carrera GT (mid engined)
Enzo (mid engined)
Formula 1 cars, mid engined,
This speaks for itself no?
But at the end of the day, no perfect solution.
In everyday driving, I don't feel the rear engined configuration of my car, that's how good Weissach's engineers are.
But if I drive sporty, then the old 911 rule applies
Slow IN, fast OUT!
Fanch.
Dec 6, 2002 3:50:32 PM
- CAR_Élite
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: 997 Exhuast
Don't change a winning team...that's what I think about it. "Downsizing" of engines isn't only a topic discussed by BMW or Mercedes Benz, Porsche is doing the same.
The future of all automobiles (especially sedans / sports cars + 200 hp) is small engines with more power. So to say: twin turbo / ... - it's the only possible step that can be done to increase power and lower weight of the cars. By building engines with more cylinders, you need more space. Why do that if you can create an engine based on an excellent boxer with TTs on it that reaches power in an amount of 500 - 600 hp. Porsche can, believe me.
Another argument is that the 911 isn't only bought because of its power - it's also bought by people who like the sound and remember the old air-cooled engines. You can't remove the back engine and the boxer from a 911 - its one unity. And: why change? The Porsche 911 Carrera is purchased very well and most people are satisfied with the power.
The next 911 (997) is a step backwards (993) concerning design and stuff. I think the posted pictures show in fact how the new 911 looks like. The only thing I don't believe to be presented in 2004 is that flap on the back of the car. Btw, German Auto Motor Sport also showed these pictures...so they can't be that unrealistic.
Sebastian, car-elite.com
The future of all automobiles (especially sedans / sports cars + 200 hp) is small engines with more power. So to say: twin turbo / ... - it's the only possible step that can be done to increase power and lower weight of the cars. By building engines with more cylinders, you need more space. Why do that if you can create an engine based on an excellent boxer with TTs on it that reaches power in an amount of 500 - 600 hp. Porsche can, believe me.
Another argument is that the 911 isn't only bought because of its power - it's also bought by people who like the sound and remember the old air-cooled engines. You can't remove the back engine and the boxer from a 911 - its one unity. And: why change? The Porsche 911 Carrera is purchased very well and most people are satisfied with the power.
The next 911 (997) is a step backwards (993) concerning design and stuff. I think the posted pictures show in fact how the new 911 looks like. The only thing I don't believe to be presented in 2004 is that flap on the back of the car. Btw, German Auto Motor Sport also showed these pictures...so they can't be that unrealistic.
Sebastian, car-elite.com
Dec 6, 2002 5:09:25 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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- Reply to: CAR_Élite
Re: 997 Exhuast
In reply to:
The next 911 (997) is a step backwards (993) concerning design and stuff.
As nice as 996 looks there are alot of Porsche enthusiasts that still like the 993 look - the ultimate Porsche design signature. I think "997" headlight design (993 look) and the rest of body (996 look) is a fantastic compromise between the two.
And as RC mentioned I believe 997 will be a MY '05 car.
Dec 6, 2002 6:39:04 PM
- CAR_Élite
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: 997 Exhuast
Hi Ron,
"step backwards" wasn't meant to be negative. I love the 993's styling and hope that Porsche is coming back to this car concerning the design. The only 996 I like at the moment is the 4S-version. There's nothing better than the long rear lights...the 993 Cartronic @ CAR Élite is one of my dream cars...
Sebastian, car-elite.com
"step backwards" wasn't meant to be negative. I love the 993's styling and hope that Porsche is coming back to this car concerning the design. The only 996 I like at the moment is the 4S-version. There's nothing better than the long rear lights...the 993 Cartronic @ CAR Élite is one of my dream cars...
Sebastian, car-elite.com
Re: 997 Exhuast
yeah thats true i lie the 993 4s models too.
but i want to add something about the "997".
do you all think that the modern body-style of the 996 will look good with the olsder 993 headlights-look?
i don't know but i hav a bad feeling
i hope the speculations about this are not true
but maybe its true and will also look goo
lets hope fonly for good!
but i want to add something about the "997".
do you all think that the modern body-style of the 996 will look good with the olsder 993 headlights-look?
i don't know but i hav a bad feeling
i hope the speculations about this are not true
but maybe its true and will also look goo
lets hope fonly for good!
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