Crown

Carlos from Spain:

Rear downforce calibration? I guess at teslarati they are so clueless about driving cars that they will gobble that bs right up. so the front snowplow spoiler is for front downforce "calibration", the semislick tires are for traction calibration, the lowrider springs are for suspensions calibration, and the empty interior is for weight distribution calibration?  what is left that will actually make it into the production version and is not just for this media circus at the Ring?

You fail to understand the brilliance of Elon Musk and his application of, “first principles.” /sarc.   Awaiting the Q3 19 10q to learn more on the sources of the surprise profit announcement.  Hard to believe it was exclusively from operation cost cutting and efficiency gains.  

The logic here seems to be a Porsche breaks down and it's a result of extensive testing, but a Tesla breaks down and they're garbage.  Got it.

This is correct and easy to argue: Porsche is doing maybe 100x/200x/300x the distance on NBR compared to Tesla. Thus a Porsche breakdown is 100x/200x/300x more likely. But still you see many, many Tesla break downs...  

Literally at least 2 Porsches if not more is doing testing at the Ring at any given day and time. Porsche don't even advertise that they are testing there, since they do it so much. 

Tesla however highly publicized their effort to drum up attention, yet they keep failing there. Perhaps if they would just keep their mouth shut and quietly go about their business and things will be better. They asked fo the attention and they got it. They WANTED people to see they failed.

Even Hyundai is testing there but they don't say a word. What for?

porsche-boasting-error-tesla-model-3-crushes-27-repeated-launches-to-200-km-h

Enough of the Porsche bias. Porsche is not infallible.

Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

Hmm, that's article is written with a face full of Tesla goggles Nick.

BTW:

--

Whoopsy:

Hmm, that's article is written with a face full of Tesla goggles Nick.

 

Not surprising since its not even from a regular news site, it is from the agenda driven propaganda site cleantechnica... reading anything from that site is a waste of time.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Yeah. It’s all lies if is good news about Tesla. Too fucking funny guys. I love reading this crap. In a couple of years this will be even better reading. Maybe drive a Model 3?  I own one now and it’s incredible. But I may be lying. Lol. Or a fan boy. Oh no. Don’t take the word of someone who has owned Porsche’s for 40 years. Keep it up guys. More cars for the rest of us. 
ready for the censors and haters. Like I give a duck.   Cheers 

Carlos from Spain:

Whoopsy:

Hmm, that's article is written with a face full of Tesla goggles Nick.

 

Not surprising since its not even from a regular news site, it is from the agenda driven propaganda site cleantechnica... reading anything from that site is a waste of time.

These comments are tiresome. If the website would have written a favorable article regarding Porsche all you Europeans and Canadians ()would be citing it and explaining how well its written.

Is it any wonder that US participation on this blog is almost none existent? At one time, RT attracted people from all over the world because it encouraged objective thought and valued facts. Today, it's down to about ten Europeans, a couple of Canadians and a US participant that has a fanatical bias against Tesla. Sadly, the blog is in a death spiral and I'm not sure it will survive another year. It has to make substantial changes to survive. 

Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

nberry:

Carlos from Spain:

Whoopsy:

Hmm, that's article is written with a face full of Tesla goggles Nick.

 

Not surprising since its not even from a regular news site, it is from the agenda driven propaganda site cleantechnica... reading anything from that site is a waste of time.

These comments are tiresome. If the website would have written a favorable article regarding Porsche all you Europeans and Canadians ()would be citing it and explaining how well its written.

Is it any wonder that US participation on this blog is almost none existent? At one time, RT attracted people from all over the world because it encouraged objective thought and valued facts. Today, it's down to about ten Europeans, a couple of Canadians and a US participant that has a fanatical bias against Tesla. Sadly, the blog is in a death spiral and I'm not sure it will survive another year. It has to make substantial changes to survive. 

Next you will be posting articles from Teslarati as credible

From your response Nick I'm guessing you saw a headline and just copy and pasted that article without knowing much about the source. I give you some time to read more articles on that site and see what is about and then get back to us... 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

nberry:

Carlos from Spain:

Whoopsy:

Hmm, that's article is written with a face full of Tesla goggles Nick.

 

Not surprising since its not even from a regular news site, it is from the agenda driven propaganda site cleantechnica... reading anything from that site is a waste of time.

These comments are tiresome. If the website would have written a favorable article regarding Porsche all you Europeans and Canadians ()would be citing it and explaining how well its written.

Is it any wonder that US participation on this blog is almost none existent? At one time, RT attracted people from all over the world because it encouraged objective thought and valued facts. Today, it's down to about ten Europeans, a couple of Canadians and a US participant that has a fanatical bias against Tesla. Sadly, the blog is in a death spiral and I'm not sure it will survive another year. It has to make substantial changes to survive. 

Haha, for me at least, it really isn't about Porsche vs Tesla. It's more like measuring how competent a company is in making cars.

Maybe the Americans here have a certain bias for Tesla simply because it is an American company and American cars have been sucking for so long. Or the Germans here favour the German car companies over Tesla.

Canada doesn't make cars, everything is an import. Yes I like my Porsches, primary reason being they are really really good. But am I Porsche biased? Hardly, literally I have bought everything under the sun already. 

Have I ever considered a Tesla? Yup I did. I was one of the first to place an order for a Model 3. (But literally there are 400k people before me to put a deposit down). Why did I not ended up with a Tesla? One word, quality doesn't match the price. 

My Audi e-Tron is 80k less than a comparable Model X, why the hell would I pay more to buy a inferior car? Whatever the Model X can do, the e-Tron can do, while pampering me in comfort and luxury. Model X being infinitely faster in a straight line is meaningless when everyone is stuck in traffic in the city. And there are 3 other cars in my garage that's faster in a straight-line. 

I don't need to haul 7 people, those days are long gone, so the extra 2 seats offered by the Model X is a moot point. Had I needed 7 seats I would have kept my Odyssey, and I got rid of that for a Honda pickup truck, which by the way, is awesome! Costing a fraction of the price of a Model X but infinitely more useful.

I am also not getting a Taycan, I have no need for one, not even as a toy. 

I think Tesla cars are good cars, good enough cars. But are they the greatest thing ever like all Tesla fanboys claimed? FAR FROM THAT.

This whole Tesla problem literally came from the obnoxious fanboys. They keep trying really hard to justify their existence. Doing this, doing that, posting everything on YouTube just to prove a point. It gets really tiring, quickly. 

IF a car is competent and capable, there is NO NEED to prove a point constantly, people will find out by themselves. Look at Porsche, they never boast anything, look at Ferrari, they never do that either, nor Lamborghini. Not even Mercedes or BMW, nor Toyota or Honda. Literally no one in the car industry blow their own horn except Tesla. 

Yeah Porsche do advertise them claiming Ring records every now and then, but they don't pre-announce they are going to the Ring or whatever. They just book a day, show up, grab the record and go home. Then make a video and press release and be done with. 

Ferrari doesn't do the Ring, but they just say a new car set whatever new record at their own track and then done. 

Why does Tesla have to be this loud obnoxious one that can't keep it's mouth shut one? Or is it an American culture just to be the loud one? 

Actually on second thought, that's the American culture. All over the world, not just Europe, but Australia, Asia, Canada, whatever, the loudest tourists are always Americans. 

Perhaps 

Leawood911:

Yeah. It’s all lies if is good news about Tesla. Too fucking funny guys. I love reading this crap. In a couple of years this will be even better reading. Maybe drive a Model 3?  I own one now and it’s incredible. But I may be lying. Lol. Or a fan boy. Oh no. Don’t take the word of someone who has owned Porsche’s for 40 years. Keep it up guys. More cars for the rest of us. 
ready for the censors and haters. Like I give a duck.   Cheers 

Nice to have you back   Hope you don't burn out trying to argue the pros of Model 3 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Agree. Great to see you again Leawood911 . The Teslerati piece is based on measurements done by Bjørn Nyland who is always very accurate when it comes to testing ELVs.

Whoopsy:

nberry:

Carlos from Spain:

Whoopsy:

Hmm, that's article is written with a face full of Tesla goggles Nick.

 

Not surprising since its not even from a regular news site, it is from the agenda driven propaganda site cleantechnica... reading anything from that site is a waste of time.

These comments are tiresome. If the website would have written a favorable article regarding Porsche all you Europeans and Canadians ()would be citing it and explaining how well its written.

Is it any wonder that US participation on this blog is almost none existent? At one time, RT attracted people from all over the world because it encouraged objective thought and valued facts. Today, it's down to about ten Europeans, a couple of Canadians and a US participant that has a fanatical bias against Tesla. Sadly, the blog is in a death spiral and I'm not sure it will survive another year. It has to make substantial changes to survive. 

 

Haha, for me at least, it really isn't about Porsche vs Tesla. It's more like measuring how competent a company is in making cars.

Maybe the Americans here have a certain bias for Tesla simply because it is an American company and American cars have been sucking for so long. Or the Germans here favour the German car companies over Tesla.

Canada doesn't make cars, everything is an import. Yes I like my Porsches, primary reason being they are really really good. But am I Porsche biased? Hardly, literally I have bought everything under the sun already. 

Have I ever considered a Tesla? Yup I did. I was one of the first to place an order for a Model 3. (But literally there are 400k people before me to put a deposit down). Why did I not ended up with a Tesla? One word, quality doesn't match the price. 

My Audi e-Tron is 80k less than a comparable Model X, why the hell would I pay more to buy a inferior car? Whatever the Model X can do, the e-Tron can do, while pampering me in comfort and luxury. Model X being infinitely faster in a straight line is meaningless when everyone is stuck in traffic in the city. And there are 3 other cars in my garage that's faster in a straight-line. 

I don't need to haul 7 people, those days are long gone, so the extra 2 seats offered by the Model X is a moot point. Had I needed 7 seats I would have kept my Odyssey, and I got rid of that for a Honda pickup truck, which by the way, is awesome! Costing a fraction of the price of a Model X but infinitely more useful.

I am also not getting a Taycan, I have no need for one, not even as a toy. 

I think Tesla cars are good cars, good enough cars. But are they the greatest thing ever like all Tesla fanboys claimed? FAR FROM THAT.

This whole Tesla problem literally came from the obnoxious fanboys. They keep trying really hard to justify their existence. Doing this, doing that, posting everything on YouTube just to prove a point. It gets really tiring, quickly. 

IF a car is competent and capable, there is NO NEED to prove a point constantly, people will find out by themselves. Look at Porsche, they never boast anything, look at Ferrari, they never do that either, nor Lamborghini. Not even Mercedes or BMW, nor Toyota or Honda. Literally no one in the car industry blow their own horn except Tesla. 

Yeah Porsche do advertise them claiming Ring records every now and then, but they don't pre-announce they are going to the Ring or whatever. They just book a day, show up, grab the record and go home. Then make a video and press release and be done with. 

Ferrari doesn't do the Ring, but they just say a new car set whatever new record at their own track and then done. 

Why does Tesla have to be this loud obnoxious one that can't keep it's mouth shut one? Or is it an American culture just to be the loud one? 

Actually on second thought, that's the American culture. All over the world, not just Europe, but Australia, Asia, Canada, whatever, the loudest tourists are always Americans. 

 

 

Perhaps 

I am more Austrian than most Austrians on this board. Also owned the most Porsche’s consecutively for the longest time. Bias?  Toward Porsche.  Now listen carefully. These reason Tesla owners expound the awesomeness of their cars is simple. They are that friggin good.  The reason all those other companies don’t have hoards of people boasting is cause they are not that fantastic. I find it over the top funny that the measure of a good car company is to have no fans and the shitty car company has tons of elevated fans who can’t get enough. 
pretty pathetic that one then argues about fit and finish and how other cars are rated in the garage than model x.   I doubt the Tesla fanboys consider the 918 in their garage when comparing cars. 
anyway. I can tell when someone has never slept with a woman or driven a Tesla. 
Oh - and any article slamming Tesla is golden. Lol. Drive the fucking model 3 performance and get back to me. Like I said these posts will be priceless in a few years. Especially mr car guys himself with his long winded rationale for why his electric Audi is so well built.  Accept the fact that those of us who are European and raised on Porsche’s brilliant designs still have a brain and know greatness when we drive it.  

now go drive the frigging car before you post yourself into sillyness history. 
 

Really sad this whole Tesla thing is stirring up emotions again. Both sides a bit extreme/biased. Traditional press sometimes very unfair towards Tesla, on the other hand Tesla fanboys can be also very annoying (to a point where I try to avoid certain other Tesla drivers, because they just cannot comprehend, that I "still" have ICE cars and don't intend to sell them). But especially Porsche vs Tesla seems to be totally unnecessary these days as Diess and Musk seem to have fallen in love lately

Back to topic, the Model 3 (Performance) is a great car but not the greatest thing on earth. If you happen to get one in good condition (which is kind of a gamble) built quality is more then enough for a daily beater (the fact this is criticized over and over again is really lame) and the accelerator really feels hardwired to your brain.OTA updates are also great but a double edged sword. Recent V10 updates have really made the autopilot a bit better to use, on the other hand I experience more "crashes" (radio not working, online connectivity not working) than before. Biggest complaint still here in Germany: service/customer care. This is beyond ridiculous. Latest stunt: they only deliver the Model 3 in very few locations (I think currently only 2 in Germany). So you ordered a car let's say for delivery in Frankfurt, but 2 weeks before delivery they tell you to pick up your car 250 miles away because they don't do Model 3 deliveries anymore in Frankfurt. And if you don't like the delivery date they give you, they flat out tell you they will allocate your car to someone else and cannot promise a next possible date. That kind of leaves you speechless.

As I wrote before I also have an e-tron (which I usually drive since my wife doesn't give me the Tesla). As I wrote before this is the most comfortable and relaxing drive I ever had so far. But - at least here in Germany - not much cheaper than Model X after recent Tesla price cuts. The e-tron also has a few small issues, nothing that really bothers me EXCEPT online connectivity: that is just something the German manufactures haven't fully learnt yet. It feels like the Audi servers are down 50% of the time which is especially annoying if you use public chargers and cannot follow charging progress. But I still have hope they will still fix that problem. Otherwise my favorite car for medium distance trips (long distance -> diesel, fun ->gasoline ).

Cheers, Wolfgang

P.S.: I agree with Leawood you should (test)drive the Model 3 (or a recent S/X) to get some first hand experience. This can be quite an eye opener (even though the effect of the kick-ass acceleration wears off fast).

WoP:

Really sad this whole Tesla thing is stirring up emotions again. Both sides a bit extreme/biased. Traditional press sometimes very unfair towards Tesla, on the other hand Tesla fanboys can be also very annoying (to a point where I try to avoid certain other Tesla drivers, because they just cannot comprehend, that I "still" have ICE cars and don't intend to sell them). But especially Porsche vs Tesla seems to be totally unnecessary these days as Diess and Musk seem to have fallen in love lately

Back to topic, the Model 3 (Performance) is a great car but not the greatest thing on earth. If you happen to get one in good condition (which is kind of a gamble) built quality is more then enough for a daily beater (the fact this is criticized over and over again is really lame) and the accelerator really feels hardwired to your brain.OTA updates are also great but a double edged sword. Recent V10 updates have really made the autopilot a bit better to use, on the other hand I experience more "crashes" (radio not working, online connectivity not working) than before. Biggest complaint still here in Germany: service/customer care. This is beyond ridiculous. Latest stunt: they only deliver the Model 3 in very few locations (I think currently only 2 in Germany). So you ordered a car let's say for delivery in Frankfurt, but 2 weeks before delivery they tell you to pick up your car 250 miles away because they don't do Model 3 deliveries anymore in Frankfurt. And if you don't like the delivery date they give you, they flat out tell you they will allocate your car to someone else and cannot promise a next possible date. That kind of leaves you speechless.

As I wrote before I also have an e-tron (which I usually drive since my wife doesn't give me the Tesla). As I wrote before this is the most comfortable and relaxing drive I ever had so far. But - at least here in Germany - not much cheaper than Model X after recent Tesla price cuts. The e-tron also has a few small issues, nothing that really bothers me EXCEPT online connectivity: that is just something the German manufactures haven't fully learnt yet. It feels like the Audi servers are down 50% of the time which is especially annoying if you use public chargers and cannot follow charging progress. But I still have hope they will still fix that problem. Otherwise my favorite car for medium distance trips (long distance -> diesel, fun ->gasoline ).

Cheers, Wolfgang

Yup Yup Yup!

For some reason it's worse than Porsche Car Connect. PCC literally is always online 100% of the time. The Audi app is hit or miss. I have gone weeks without getting the update. But at least my charger has it's own app that shows the charging process, which also happens to operate public chargers too and can also see the public ones. 

Ride and comfort is light years beyond any Tesla right now, don't even need to mention fit and finish and materials used.

Ergonomics are excellent also, no need to dig down menu on a single giant screen to find what you need, everything has their place. 

Regen braking is another advantage. The e-Tron drives like a normal car. Lift of the throttle and it coast down the road smoothly. The transition from regen braking to physical braking is also seamless, this is one big advantage VAG has, they perfected that from the 918. 

Some weeks ago I posted about doing a round trip to whistler, I got 14% charge left driving it like a normal car. I just did another under similar condition but use the lift off regen settings, so sort of one pedal driving like the Tesla. The trip ended up using an extra 4% charge. So VAG is right, coasting and let the driver decide when to brake is more efficient. 

Tesla don't have the knowhow to blend the physical braking with regen braking, hence they 'invented' one pedal driving with lift off regen. It isn't the most efficient way to use energy, as during the conversion some energy is loss. I have to imagine if Tesla ever figure out how to do the blending, their range would increase another 5% at least. 

Leawood911:

Yeah. It’s all lies if is good news about Tesla. Too fucking funny guys. I love reading this crap. In a couple of years this will be even better reading. Maybe drive a Model 3?  I own one now and it’s incredible. But I may be lying. Lol. Or a fan boy. Oh no. Don’t take the word of someone who has owned Porsche’s for 40 years. Keep it up guys. More cars for the rest of us. 
ready for the censors and haters. Like I give a duck.   Cheers 

Just because I have Zero interest in buying Tesla does not make me “fanatically biased against it”.

I appreciate their contribution to growing popularity of electric personal transport devices but after trying one for almost a week (100D), I realized that one week was more then enough that I could handle.

Amazing acceleration from the get go and at stop light to stop light “racing” got boring very quick, cheap and low rent interior rubbed me the wrong way and driving that thing in a sea of identical “pods” ( there are a ton of Teslas in my area) made me feel like just another member of a mob of Musk religion followers.

Enjoy your model 3 but with your comments and statements you only prove that you are also already infected with Musk virus and became a rabid fanatic yourself.

Your pathetic effort to make it as something of US vs the rest of the World is just that, pathetic and stupid.

absent:

Leawood911:

Yeah. It’s all lies if is good news about Tesla. Too fucking funny guys. I love reading this crap. In a couple of years this will be even better reading. Maybe drive a Model 3?  I own one now and it’s incredible. But I may be lying. Lol. Or a fan boy. Oh no. Don’t take the word of someone who has owned Porsche’s for 40 years. Keep it up guys. More cars for the rest of us. 
ready for the censors and haters. Like I give a duck.   Cheers 

Just because I have Zero interest in buying Tesla does not make me “fanatically biased against it”.

I appreciate their contribution to growing popularity of electric personal transport devices but after trying one for almost a week (100D), I realized that one week was more then enough that I could handle.

Amazing acceleration from the get go and at stop light to stop light “racing” got boring very quick, cheap and low rent interior rubbed me the wrong way and driving that thing in a sea of identical “pods” ( there are a ton of Teslas in my area) made me feel like just another member of a mob of Musk religion followers.

Enjoy your model 3 but with your comments and statements you only prove that you are also already infected with Musk virus and became a rabid fanatic yourself.

Your pathetic effort to make it as something of US vs the rest of the World is just that, pathetic and stupid.

 

 

This. Tesla fanboys turned it into us vs them mentality. If you are not with them you are against them.

One simple thing they don't get is that people buy cars for different reason and different attributes, that's why there are so many choices in the market for all sorts of cars.

If a Tesla car didn't get picked, it is not due to the fact that they 'hates' Tesla, it more like because Tesla's offering isn't good enough.

Here is the obvious difference. Tesla fans say nice things about their cars. They don’t bother insulting other cars or their owners. They simply try to communicate the good experiences they have had. On the other hand the other side is the opposite. They complain about all things Tesla - as much as possible. Personal attacks on anyone not sharing their view is not just acceptable but somehow always 100% fact yet purely subjective.  
Too much like political mentality these days. I shy away from the haters and negative arguments. Hence goodbye again for a while. 
 

I admire both Porsche and Tesla. They’re different cars with different customer bases. I drive a Panamera Turbo, and my wife will probably lease a Model 3 within the next three months.

One thing to add: I spent a long time talking to a senior marketing executive at Porsche during the Frankfurt show. When I asked him about Tesla, he very candidly and honestly said that (1) he thought that Tesla was an attractive and impressive car, and (2) that the Taycan  would not have existed if it were not for Tesla. Tesla opened up a market and by its success showed the way for others to invest and produce a performance electric product. 

Top Gear video: Porsche Taycan Turbo S vs Tesla Model S

(30 October 2019)

“This is the battle for EV supremacy. In the green corner, the £140k, 750bhp Porsche Taycan Turbo S. In the red corner, the £100k, 754bhp Tesla Model S Performance Ludicrous+. Place your bets now...“

Top Gear link: https://www.topgear.com/videos/electric/video-porsche-taycan-turbo-s-vs-tesla-model-s

Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F28i1D1OJ5o

silent rockets

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

Both are awesome cars and fast. Model 3 is not far behind and much cheaper.  The difference is the vertical integration of the Tesla and the.much more advanced safety and autonomy. For me either car is the future. If you drive one of these an ICE car looks, sounds and feels funny (ridiculous) AND slow.  The last thing you want is exhaust noise after sipping along silently.  I just murder traffic around me now without a peep. 

At one time, Porshe bragged about being the performance/value leader in the car industry. I wonder what their mantra is now? “We’re Porsche so expect to pay twice as much for similar performance.” 

Seriously, EV’s are instruments for cost efficient travel and for anyone regardless of how rich they are to pay close to $200,000 for an EV should have their head examined. One can only conclude that Porsche knows its customer base very well. 

Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

Leawood911:

Both are awesome cars and fast. Model 3 is not far behind and much cheaper.  The difference is the vertical integration of the Tesla and the.much more advanced safety and autonomy. For me either car is the future. If you drive one of these an ICE car looks, sounds and feels funny (ridiculous) AND slow.  The last thing you want is exhaust noise after sipping along silently.  I just murder traffic around me now without a peep. 

What about your love for long distance trips, you reported to us in the past?

Seems difficult with your Model 3.

Blueflame

The Taycan seems to sell like hot cakes in Switzerland. Apparently, they sold as many Taycan in Switzerland as in Germany. Germany has roughly 10x more inhabitants. There is too much money areound...

Josef:

The Taycan seems to sell like hot cakes in Switzerland. Apparently, they sold as many Taycan in Switzerland as in Germany. Germany has roughly 10x more inhabitants. There is too much money areound...

Switzerland of course is where all the money is in in Europe.........................

nberry:

At one time, Porshe bragged about being the performance/value leader in the car industry. I wonder what their mantra is now? “We’re Porsche so expect to pay twice as much for similar performance.” 

Seriously, EV’s are instruments for cost efficient travel and for anyone regardless of how rich they are to pay close to $200,000 for an EV should have their head examined. One can only conclude that Porsche knows its customer base very well. 

You get it. Which is why people are buying Model 3s instead of Model Ss.

Which also implies why would anyone buy a Model X when the Audi e-Tron is cheaper and offers more for less money. 

Same thing with Model 3, Nissan Leaf is a much more attractive and cheaper alternative.

Leawood911:

Both are awesome cars and fast. Model 3 is not far behind and much cheaper.  The difference is the vertical integration of the Tesla and the.much more advanced safety and autonomy. For me either car is the future. If you drive one of these an ICE car looks, sounds and feels funny (ridiculous) AND slow.  The last thing you want is exhaust noise after sipping along silently.  I just murder traffic around me now without a peep. 

You LOVE you manual transmission didn't you? Does your Model 3 have a manual transmission?