Crown

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

What is meant by not as successful? What's the metric?

If it means it's not selling in great numbers, well that would be skewed by the length of time Tesla is in the market isn't it?

By the same metric, Tesla aren't successful at all when compared with say a Civic or Corolla isn't it? Honda been making Civic for what? 30 years? 40 years? it has to be very successful if it stayed in production for so long. and Honda been selling them in great numbers every year. 

The local Tesla store still has about 20ish unsold Teslas on the lot, while the Polestar dealer has zero car. Does that mean no one wants a Tesla while the Polestar is the hot item? The Rivian store also don't have any to sell. Lucid has a long wait list also. Porsche dealers are also out of Taycans. They have no stock, incoming Taycans are all sold custom ordered cars. Dealers actually wanted some cars for stock but Porsche just can't keep up with demand right now.

Insurance company forbid title change while a car is under repair. So it cannot be used as a trade in until it is fixed. 

Did I compared the Polestar's volume knob with Tesla? Did you know up until last year, the Honda Ridgeline only has a touch screen control volume 'slider'? They took away the knob and that was one of the worse thing about the Ridgeline.

Best thing about non-Tesla EVs? They all uses industrial standard plug. The one home charger I have in the garage can charge any EV, I am not locked into only Teslas. The plug can go into a Porsche, a Audi, A Jeep, and now a Polestar. If I buy a GM EV, or a KIA EV? Same plug. it will also charges my incoming Ford F150 Lightning. also. One plug to rule them all.

That is some amazing rationale. Applause. 
By metric I will go with EV units sold/produced and by market cap. I think that is enough. 
You keep mentioning the cars on the lot. You realize there are many reasons for them to be there. The fact remains you have to order them online and the online site tells you what the wait is.  Maybe there are exception but few can travel up to Canada to buy from your local dealer.  Still, I suspect they don’t have any you can walk up and buy.  It would be the exception. 
The reason the others are sold out is pretty meaningless. Maybe they are not as vertically integrated and can’t make them presently. 
I appreciate the fact that you like all the other EVs so much. They just don’t have any appeal to me. They don’t have the software, tech, performance or resale value. Not to mention safety, reliability and style. I hate the conventional car interiors but lack planning and design integration imho. 
but seriously - I’m glad you are okay and we’re not hurt.  Best of luck with the insurance. Will this cause your rates to go up?  Could have been the 918!   Thanks for all the fun debates. 

 

in case you missed it, Vancouver is the biggest market for Tesla on a per capita basis. EV sales are strong here, more so than any US city by the same metric. Helps a lot when gas is over CAD$2 a litre now. We had always had the highest gas price in Canada so EV had always been popular, especially with all the self labeled greenie west coast people.

Tesla has been them default choice for so long. It's like going to your favourite restaurant and keep ordering the same steak. But the same restaurant's chicken, fish, seafood and pasta are also superb, just that not enough people try them.

All these new competitors bring different attributes to the segment. Not every one wants to spend the money buying numerous cameras on the car and a powerful processor for autopilot usage which they do not use, they would much rather have those money invested in better fit and finish and material usage. Polestar, Ioniq 5 are in the same price bracket as a Model 3, Y, and while they are short on processing power, they excel in interior, which every buyer will spend time in. 

 

I get Vancouver is a big Tesla market. Still does not address that there is a wait and those cars you see can’t be purchased today. Lol. 
You know I’m not green at all. I drive the Tesla more often just for fun than any other car I have ever owned by a factor of 2x at least. 
I love the interior and quality of everything. You make it sound as though it is a prison. In fact it is an amazing place to relax in. Best sound system ever. The autopilot is amazing. And it is included. To assume the public will trade an interior for all the features offered by Tesla - 100’s the completions does not have - is a huge gamble. Huge.  From what we see in the stock market and actual sales it looks like a bad bet. You obviously love interiors with lots of buttons and switches. I prefer cars which do more than look good to a few. 
Time will tell. So far there is no contest. At all. 
Do you want a list of all the things a Tesla can do which no other car can do? 

nberry:

Nick, how is your dealer going handle the trade in now that it has been involved in an accident? 

One problem is that they can't take the car in yet as insurance company won't release the car for trade. I am dealing with them right now trying to force a write off and a simple cheque payment.

Here with trade ins it's fully tax credited. I paid 15% sales tax on it originally but the new car is in the 20% bracket, so I actually gain 5% tax credit out of thin air. 

Now even if the car can be fixed quickly, the previous agreed upon trade in price is out the window, there will be a new much lower trade in price, the difference will be what I am planning to sure the insurance company for, the accelerated depreciation bit. 

All else fails while that dragged on, I will just use that car as a trade in for the next car. 

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

What is meant by not as successful? What's the metric?

If it means it's not selling in great numbers, well that would be skewed by the length of time Tesla is in the market isn't it?

By the same metric, Tesla aren't successful at all when compared with say a Civic or Corolla isn't it? Honda been making Civic for what? 30 years? 40 years? it has to be very successful if it stayed in production for so long. and Honda been selling them in great numbers every year. 

The local Tesla store still has about 20ish unsold Teslas on the lot, while the Polestar dealer has zero car. Does that mean no one wants a Tesla while the Polestar is the hot item? The Rivian store also don't have any to sell. Lucid has a long wait list also. Porsche dealers are also out of Taycans. They have no stock, incoming Taycans are all sold custom ordered cars. Dealers actually wanted some cars for stock but Porsche just can't keep up with demand right now.

Insurance company forbid title change while a car is under repair. So it cannot be used as a trade in until it is fixed. 

Did I compared the Polestar's volume knob with Tesla? Did you know up until last year, the Honda Ridgeline only has a touch screen control volume 'slider'? They took away the knob and that was one of the worse thing about the Ridgeline.

Best thing about non-Tesla EVs? They all uses industrial standard plug. The one home charger I have in the garage can charge any EV, I am not locked into only Teslas. The plug can go into a Porsche, a Audi, A Jeep, and now a Polestar. If I buy a GM EV, or a KIA EV? Same plug. it will also charges my incoming Ford F150 Lightning. also. One plug to rule them all.

That is some amazing rationale. Applause. 
By metric I will go with EV units sold/produced and by market cap. I think that is enough. 
You keep mentioning the cars on the lot. You realize there are many reasons for them to be there. The fact remains you have to order them online and the online site tells you what the wait is.  Maybe there are exception but few can travel up to Canada to buy from your local dealer.  Still, I suspect they don’t have any you can walk up and buy.  It would be the exception. 
The reason the others are sold out is pretty meaningless. Maybe they are not as vertically integrated and can’t make them presently. 
I appreciate the fact that you like all the other EVs so much. They just don’t have any appeal to me. They don’t have the software, tech, performance or resale value. Not to mention safety, reliability and style. I hate the conventional car interiors but lack planning and design integration imho. 
but seriously - I’m glad you are okay and we’re not hurt.  Best of luck with the insurance. Will this cause your rates to go up?  Could have been the 918!   Thanks for all the fun debates. 

 

in case you missed it, Vancouver is the biggest market for Tesla on a per capita basis. EV sales are strong here, more so than any US city by the same metric. Helps a lot when gas is over CAD$2 a litre now. We had always had the highest gas price in Canada so EV had always been popular, especially with all the self labeled greenie west coast people.

Tesla has been them default choice for so long. It's like going to your favourite restaurant and keep ordering the same steak. But the same restaurant's chicken, fish, seafood and pasta are also superb, just that not enough people try them.

All these new competitors bring different attributes to the segment. Not every one wants to spend the money buying numerous cameras on the car and a powerful processor for autopilot usage which they do not use, they would much rather have those money invested in better fit and finish and material usage. Polestar, Ioniq 5 are in the same price bracket as a Model 3, Y, and while they are short on processing power, they excel in interior, which every buyer will spend time in. 

 

I get Vancouver is a big Tesla market. Still does not address that there is a wait and those cars you see can’t be purchased today. Lol. 
You know I’m not green at all. I drive the Tesla more often just for fun than any other car I have ever owned by a factor of 2x at least. 
I love the interior and quality of everything. You make it sound as though it is a prison. In fact it is an amazing place to relax in. Best sound system ever. The autopilot is amazing. And it is included. To assume the public will trade an interior for all the features offered by Tesla - 100’s the completions does not have - is a huge gamble. Huge.  From what we see in the stock market and actual sales it looks like a bad bet. You obviously love interiors with lots of buttons and switches. I prefer cars which do more than look good to a few. 
Time will tell. So far there is no contest. At all. 
Do you want a list of all the things a Tesla can do which no other car can do? 

You still don't get it do you? Here there is no wait. Zero wait. Plenty of cars sitting there waiting to be bought. If the exact combo isn't on the lot, wait a week and fresh supply comes in. If I want a Model 3, a Model Y, or whatever, it takes me 15mins to drive there and however long to finish up the paperwork and walk out with a brand new Tesla. Heck I don't even need to head to the bank to get a bank draft. My Jeep I charged the whole thing to my Centurion. Can probably do that at Tesla too. The only Tesla that need to wait would be if one wants to buy the Cybertruck. That should come out maybe in 2030.

This may not be the same case at Kansas, but it is here. And it's been this way for like 5 years now. Don't believe everything you heard about Tesla. I am telling you actual on the ground fact. My girlfriend's father bought his Model 3 like 18 months ago. He walks in and walks out with a car same day. her brother bought a Model Y same way 6 months ago. It's that simple. None of the people I know that bought a Tesla actually had to go through the website and 'order' a car, every single one did the same walk in walk out routine. 

Not sure why you still want to argue just for argument sake. You based your argument on stuff you read and heard, the propaganda from the Tesla community, while I am telling you facts, actual cold hard facts, that the Tesla store have tens of unsold cars sitting there waiting to be had and fresh supply from the factory every week. 

There is nothing stopping you from flying in, buy a Tesla right now, then import it back into the USA. Maybe the red tape but that's about it.

So on a full charge, the Polestar indicates a 390km range. That's plenty good enough for an EV, especially considering it only carries a 76kW battery.

What’s the point? It isn’t a Tesla. 

Not about to get in the middle of the Tesla versus Porsche maelstrom  here, but I do find it interesting that one can get a good charge out of a small battery. To me, battery development over the next few years is quite interesting. Just fun to follow the advancement towards smaller and more effective batteries, that’s all.

Given his current collusion with reality, perhaps Musk will reconsider his relationship with Chinese battery companies. https://www.reuters.com/article/tesla-battery-idCNL4N2RH04S

A few days more driving the Polestar. Best feature on the car is the little energy gauge. It shows actual percentage of charge. Extremely useful. Much better than the Full, Not so full, maybe half, almost empty and empty marking on the e-Tron, or the useless one on the Taycan which just shows full and empty and somewhere in between. Either car can be made to display actually % somewhere deep in the infotainment system, but why can't they just show the actual %.

Whoopsy:

A few days more driving the Polestar. Best feature on the car is the little energy gauge. It shows actual percentage of charge. Extremely useful. Much better than the Full, Not so full, maybe half, almost empty and empty marking on the e-Tron, or the useless one on the Taycan which just shows full and empty and somewhere in between. Either car can be made to display actually % somewhere deep in the infotainment system, but why can't they just show the actual %.

I have battery % in the instrument cluster on my Taycan, since day one, without having to enable it. 

Whoopsy:

So on a full charge, the Polestar indicates a 390km range. That's plenty good enough for an EV, especially considering it only carries a 76kW battery.

 

I don’t get it - does it have enough range or does it need the % indicator?   Your arguments go both directions. Not certain if the % indicator is such an outstanding feature - is that the most notable?  Pretty minor stuff. In the Tesla you just press the range remaining and it switches to % and then back to miles/km.  But then again it has enough range to not be an issue. 
cheers

Whoopsy:

So on a full charge, the Polestar indicates a 390km range. That's plenty good enough for an EV, especially considering it only carries a 76kW battery.

Yes, that is pretty good. Our ID.3 has 360km range with a 58kW battery.

Leawood911:

Whoopsy:

So on a full charge, the Polestar indicates a 390km range. That's plenty good enough for an EV, especially considering it only carries a 76kW battery.

 

I don’t get it - does it have enough range or does it need the % indicator?   Your arguments go both directions. Not certain if the % indicator is such an outstanding feature - is that the most notable?  Pretty minor stuff. In the Tesla you just press the range remaining and it switches to % and then back to miles/km.  But then again it has enough range to not be an issue. 
cheers

Is that has to be mutually exclusive? Like having a great range means you don't need a precise gauge? or having a precise gauge means the car don't have great range? You logic escape me. 

Using your logic, does that means engines that can rev to 9000rpm doesn't need a tach but those that tops out at 4000rpm needs one?

I was not expressing any logic - just questioning if the % was that amazing. If you think that is cool you should really love the 100s of things no other EV or car can do. 
Let me use an analogy since you enjoy them. 
The Tesla is like an iPhone - with all the functions and apps to make your phone smart and productive. Other EVs are like the old BlackBerry with all the buttons you love but still mostly a phone and not too smart. Then there is ICE - somewhere between rotary and push button depends on manual or automatic. 
 

The iPhone of EVs hasn't appeared yet. The iPhone of EVs would be the one that can be charged up in the same time as a normal car going to a gas station. We getting there, but not yet.

Teslas are more like the flip phone, or Nokias. They had most of the market, a quasi monopoly. But competitions are coming hot and fast and Tesla might get pushed into history if they are not careful with how they plot their forward path.

Leawood911:

The Tesla is like an iPhone - with all the functions and apps to make your phone smart and productive. 

Leawood-  I think this is a great analogy.  It is an excellent appliance to have, and everyone around us have one or more.  I have a small group of Porsche driving friends that we hanged out for 15+ years, now 3 of them have 2 or more Tesla in their garages.  

The problem with EV is they do not stimulate any emotion.  No kids will waste time dreaming about owning one, they won't occupy a space on the poster wall, and no one will plan to hold onto them for a long time, or inherit one from his Dad.  Hope car manufacturers can somehow inject some souls and emotions into EV one day, rather than just building them as good appliances.

Tim

2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S;  2019 Speedster;  2021 Roma
 

Targa Tim:

Leawood911:

The Tesla is like an iPhone - with all the functions and apps to make your phone smart and productive. 

Leawood-  I think this is a great analogy.  It is an excellent appliance to have, and everyone around us have one or more.  I have a small group of Porsche driving friends that we hanged out for 15+ years, now 3 of them have 2 or more Tesla in their garages.  

The problem with EV is they do not stimulate any emotion.  No kids will waste time dreaming about owning one, they won't occupy a space on the poster wall, and no one will plan to hold onto them for a long time, or inherit one from his Dad.  Hope car manufacturers can somehow inject some souls and emotions into EV one day, rather than just building them as good appliances.

Dr Tim, you forgot there are plenty on Earth that idolizes Elon? 

They are all dreaming of the day they get their driver license at age 16 then they don't have to drive because of the autopilot thingy. Oh wait, is that Full Self Driving? The thing that's made by idiots for idiots. 

The Taycan has a soul. The e-Tron doesn't. Nor do the Polestar. The e-Mini also doesn't have one. Taycan drives and feels like a proper Porsche. That's plenty good enough. 

We do our Porsche Club Saturday morning drive. We go sit down after at breakfast to talk about cars, be it a 911, 944, 968, 928, Cayenne or Macan or Panamera. Heck some might even want to talk about their 914.

These people might do their Saturday morning drive via computer driving, and they would sit down and talk about how good the system is without them driving. They will be like dude, did you see how my car avoided that collision by itself? It drifted onto the oncoming lane and I played chicken with the car but just before it hit the other car it realized it was in the wrong spot and corrected itself and come back to our lane. That's awesome dude. Or how awesome it is to do a weekend drive without driving, exercise their car like how they do their dog walk. Just let it run around and stuff. Literally it's just that, walking the dog kind of thing for driving a Tesla. 

Targa Tim:

The problem with EV is they do not stimulate any emotion.

Don’t agree with that. The Taycan stimulates as much emotion as any non-GT model from Porsche. This was my number one criteria for changing car. Convinced since the first test drive and have not changed my mind. 

bluelines:

Targa Tim:

The problem with EV is they do not stimulate any emotion.

Don’t agree with that. The Taycan stimulates as much emotion as any non-GT model from Porsche. This was my number one criteria for changing car. Convinced since the first test drive and have not changed my mind. 

This. I go out to drive my Tesla for fun constantly. Far more often and with less worries than my Turbo. I am 100% a car guy. While the car makes no noise - which I would pay extra for - it is hilarious to drive and is always something I look forward to. Maybe I would have less fun if it was a slower version but I doubt it. I first fell in love with a plain old dual motor S. What a handling pig but already I could tell I would never go back. 
 

I have zero clue why Whoopsy feels the need to keep insulting people who simply enjoy their cars. Something must be off. There is no need to call people idiots.  Sorry 

I have driven a few different EVs, (3x Teslas, Taycan, Smart, Ioniq 5...). They are not emotional (yet) IMO. Yes, they are effective, practical, cheaper to run and have a certain appeal for daily driving which is why I would consider one for daily commutes. I would not consider (to date) an EV for mountain roads, not even a Taycan.

I think I get enough of emotions from my wife.  As a hard core driver I am more interested in performance than emotional whatever. I guarantee I can provide more of a roller coaster ride in the Tesla. 

Most of us here are going the opposite direction, performance on street cars is getting old and emotions are what you tend to appreciate and value at the end of the day, which is a problem with modern cars (incl 911) which are throwing more performance to hide that they are lacking more and more emotions, hence many looking are older sportscaster or the GTs of the 991/Cayman or driver oriented smaller lighter sportcars.

Carlos from Spain:

Most of us here are going the opposite direction, performance on street cars is getting old and emotions are what you tend to appreciate and value at the end of the day, which is a problem with modern cars (incl 911) which are throwing more performance to hide that they are lacking more and more emotions, hence many looking are older sportscaster or the GTs of the 991/Cayman or driver oriented smaller lighter sportcars.

100% agree. One of the reasons I much prefer my old manual turbo over any new pdk. As more modern cars come out the old models still running well and maintained will be very appreciated.  History shows us this in spades. 

The other side of the coin is the huge bump in ‘off the line’ acceleration, instant response and low center of gravity for cornering. While this is more like a slot car and not the type of emotional we are used to it does represent a very real type of emotion else the rush I get off the line would get old - it does not. Maybe it is a matter of how we define emotions. It is not enough to say the Tesla performance models lack emotion without adding that there is an undeniable thrill of speed.  A sense of being out of reach anytime you want to be. Maybe it is the computer programmer in me or maybe it is my history of close calls with the police going stupidly fast but the performance vs arrest risk is off the charts in favor of the Tesla. That gives me far more emotional / speed enjoyment per mile.  Hate to admit it but sometimes now I feel awkward being seen in the turbo. 

And a Tesla is the perfect modern day muscle cars of the 60s. 

Great in a straight line, drag strip car. Turns well enough to make the 180 at the end of the drag strip. Brakes are good enough to slow the car down for that 180 also. 

Been saying that for a long time.

But not everyone prefer straight line acceleration. A lot prefer lateral Gs instead of longitudinal Gs. 

Idiots are the ones that step on the gas when roads open up to 2 lane passing zones. The skilled however just relax and chill there, avoiding polices, then have their fun when the corners start, no police checking corners you know.

There is no skill involved mashing the throttle from a stop light, or going from 30-80 or whatever. But it takes real skill to make a car go around a corner at double the rated speed. Especially so when one can make a truck, a SUV or a Jeep to do it, not just sports car or sedans. 

It smokes an M3 around the track. Stock. How do you explain that?  It is just a little more unreasonable to race around corners around the street. Be real.  Which is why the plaid does not need race track brakes. Cornering against my turbo would embarrass the Porsche. Badly. 
Look at the weight distribution. The low center of gravity.  It makes the cars you think can corner look like those 60s muscle cars you refer to.  I have no idea why you continue to have these strange notions. It does go crazy fast and consistently in any direction.  Do not mistake straight line speed for lack of cornering. 

Leawood911:

Carlos from Spain:

Most of us here are going the opposite direction, performance on street cars is getting old and emotions are what you tend to appreciate and value at the end of the day, which is a problem with modern cars (incl 911) which are throwing more performance to hide that they are lacking more and more emotions, hence many looking are older sportscaster or the GTs of the 991/Cayman or driver oriented smaller lighter sportcars.

100% agree. One of the reasons I much prefer my old manual turbo over any new pdk. As more modern cars come out the old models still running well and maintained will be very appreciated.  History shows us this in spades. 

The other side of the coin is the huge bump in ‘off the line’ acceleration, instant response and low center of gravity for cornering. While this is more like a slot car and not the type of emotional we are used to it does represent a very real type of emotion else the rush I get off the line would get old - it does not. Maybe it is a matter of how we define emotions. It is not enough to say the Tesla performance models lack emotion without adding that there is an undeniable thrill of speed.  A sense of being out of reach anytime you want to be. Maybe it is the computer programmer in me or maybe it is my history of close calls with the police going stupidly fast but the performance vs arrest risk is off the charts in favor of the Tesla. That gives me far more emotional / speed enjoyment per mile.  Hate to admit it but sometimes now I feel awkward being seen in the turbo. 

Don't get me wrong, I totally get that some people get a thrill out of silent straight line acceleration, emotions are subjective and there is no wrong answer. I grew up on top of sportbikes that have unreal acceleration as you hear directly and feel every vibration while you hold on just with your arms and crotch, so a silent smooth seamless acceleration to me is like going fast on a commercial plane, it's a non event, and then if you are lugging 2 tons when going into the coner sitting up high on a soft sprung sedan then that is not fun either, doesn't matter how fast it is. We all come from different places, drive on different roads, and have different subjective experiences, all it matters is that we all drive what we like. 

You mention being able to go fast but unnoticed by the police because it's so silent, on this side of the pond it makes no difference because any type of speed trap is done with a cameras taking photos and are set on automatic for anyone that passes by shedding speeding, doesn't matter how much noise you make or not. Over here, no photo no speed ticket.

Leawood911:

It smokes an M3 around the track. Stock. How do you explain that?  It is just a little more unreasonable to race around corners around the street. Be real.  Which is why the plaid does not need race track brakes. Cornering against my turbo would embarrass the Porsche. Badly. 
Look at the weight distribution. The low center of gravity.  It makes the cars you think can corner look like those 60s muscle cars you refer to.  I have no idea why you continue to have these strange notions. It does go crazy fast and consistently in any direction.  Do not mistake straight line speed for lack of cornering. 

That M3 isn't a particular fast car. Think a Panamera turbo can do it EASILY also. Or my old Cayenne turbo S.......

Can the Model 3 beat the current M3? I think not. 

What is unreasonable? Public road corners are rated to be taken at around 0.1-0.2 lateral G. Nothing wrong with taking them at 0.4 or 0.6g, or 0.8g for that matters, not even close to car's limit at 0.9+g. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Low Cg doesn't automatically means great handling, those can be mutually exclusive. Don't blindly believe Elon again. A golf cart has low Cg too, yet they handles like a pig.

Whoopsy:

Leawood911:

It smokes an M3 around the track. Stock. How do you explain that?  It is just a little more unreasonable to race around corners around the street. Be real.  Which is why the plaid does not need race track brakes. Cornering against my turbo would embarrass the Porsche. Badly. 
Look at the weight distribution. The low center of gravity.  It makes the cars you think can corner look like those 60s muscle cars you refer to.  I have no idea why you continue to have these strange notions. It does go crazy fast and consistently in any direction.  Do not mistake straight line speed for lack of cornering. 

 

That M3 isn't a particular fast car. Think a Panamera turbo can do it EASILY also. Or my old Cayenne turbo S.......

Can the Model 3 beat the current M3? I think not. 

What is unreasonable? Public road corners are rated to be taken at around 0.1-0.2 lateral G. Nothing wrong with taking them at 0.4 or 0.6g, or 0.8g for that matters, not even close to car's limit at 0.9+g. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Low Cg doesn't automatically means great handling, those can be mutually exclusive. Don't blindly believe Elon again. A golf cart has low Cg too, yet they handles like a pig.

 

 

I don’t get it. It is not a golf cart. I am giving you my direct impressions. It has an amazing suspension with pilot sport tires and perfect and low weight distribution. It is fun and fast in more than a straight line and yes doing so on the street is nuts which is why the 3.1 to 60 every time is also fun. I think you made my point. It has a g-meter - should I take some measurements. Never mind. When you start comparing it to a golf cart to make your point the silly post it has been made. Those Porsches cost three times as much as the Tesla - nice. Are they like golf carts too?
Carlos - maybe you read what I wrote differently.  While it is fast in a straight line, which is always available and therefore used frequently (even partial thrust to get going is fun) the cornering is second to none for Street use. 

I never said a Tesla is a bad handling car. I said it turns well enough. A Tesla is a good enough car. 

What you are saying about your Model 3 is like how my buddy described his souped up golf cart in Palm Springs he used to zoom around the neighbourhood. Got a caddy grill, air-con, lithium battery and stronger motor too and the limiter removed. Oh and tinted windows even. A flip down screen for movies and stereo inside. Must have cost him 50k. 

He is alway addicted to the off the line acceleration, think it can almost pull a wheelie too. Wins all the neighbourhood drag races. And it turns well enough to navigate all the cart paths on the golf course. 

You guys have to stop arguing if blue or red is the best color  They are both nice and you have different preferences 

bluelines:

You guys have to stop arguing if blue or red is the best color  They are both nice and you have different preferences 

Trying our best, as always, to distract from wars and virus.  He knows it is just entertaining, why else would he push the famous Tesla golf cart button.  Lol. No worries. 
Did I mention I finally put the good Michelins on the awesome wheels he sent?  So happy with them. The car drives great!  
Btw I also have a golf cart at the lake house. Top of the line but not like some of the others. There is always someone with a fancier golf cart.