Crown

reginos:

RC:

Whoopsy:

reginos:

Judging from the pictures, the C8 has something cheap about its styling. It is also closer to the aesthetic of  Japanese cars than to European tastes. The least exotic of European mid-engined cars, the R8 looks much more upscale compared to the new Corvette.

The C8 will appeal to the bargain seekers  (the type of people who drove Supras and 300ZX in past decades)  than to the classy and sophisticated car enthusiasts.

 

Slight correction. That would be the Alfa 4C 

Which btw. was a huge flop in Europe...  Something I never understood.

It was a flop because it was an Alfa Romeo. Had BMW or Audi made that same car it would have been lauded.

--

 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

It was also a flop because dealers tried to make an extra buck off the car, by asking a premium in the beginning.

My local dealer asked 80k EUR for a 65k car, no discounts whatsoever. I refused and moved on.

One year(!) later, the dealer still had the very same car (in red) and offered it to me for 60(!)k but I didn't take it. He used it as a test car and put 700 km on it. In retrospect, I kind of regret not getting it because you can't get a nicer car for this kind of money. I saw the 4C a couple of times on the road and I loved it every time I saw it. Also sounds pretty good with the OEM sport exhaust.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

reginos:

RC:

Whoopsy:

reginos:

Judging from the pictures, the C8 has something cheap about its styling. It is also closer to the aesthetic of  Japanese cars than to European tastes. The least exotic of European mid-engined cars, the R8 looks much more upscale compared to the new Corvette.

The C8 will appeal to the bargain seekers  (the type of people who drove Supras and 300ZX in past decades)  than to the classy and sophisticated car enthusiasts.

 

Slight correction. That would be the Alfa 4C 

Which btw. was a huge flop in Europe...  Something I never understood.

It was a flop because it was an Alfa Romeo. Had BMW or Audi made that same car it would have been lauded.

--

 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

It was also a flop because dealers tried to make an extra buck off the car, by asking a premium in the beginning.

My local dealer asked 80k EUR for a 65k car, no discounts whatsoever. I refused and moved on.

One year(!) later, the dealer still had the very same car (in red) and offered it to me for 60(!)k but I didn't take it. He used it as a test car and put 700 km on it. In retrospect, I kind of regret not getting it because you can't get a nicer car for this kind of money. I saw the 4C a couple of times on the road and I loved it every time I saw it. Also sounds pretty good with the OEM sport exhaust.

Very nice the 4C

However, had the 4C been a Cayman GT or something similar, some people would have paid the premium over the selling price. The Alfa brand has lost its power decades ago. It is also not very wise to get involved in F1 and be hopeless. This doesn't enhance their image at all.

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

That is the base configuration in Ceramic Grey.  Then bi-level wing is part of the Z51 performance package which include the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires, sports exhaust, and larger brakes.  The rear brakes are larger in diameter than the front brakes.   

RC:

Whoopsy:

reginos:

Judging from the pictures, the C8 has something cheap about its styling. It is also closer to the aesthetic of  Japanese cars than to European tastes. The least exotic of European mid-engined cars, the R8 looks much more upscale compared to the new Corvette.

The C8 will appeal to the bargain seekers  (the type of people who drove Supras and 300ZX in past decades)  than to the classy and sophisticated car enthusiasts.

 

Slight correction. That would be the Alfa 4C 

Which btw. was a huge flop in Europe...  Something I never understood.

Also a big flop in North American. 

Dealers are stuck with 2 year old new cars.

I got mine 2nd hand at basically half the price, now that's a bargain.

I actually feel like I am in a mini-Speciale when I drive it. 

I think the base V8 will have a nice typical Corvette rumble; weirdly, this reminds me that the Audi R8 did start with a NA V8, and I know a few Audi owners actually preferred the V8 version over the V10. 

2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo

4trac:

I think the base V8 will have a nice typical Corvette rumble; weirdly, this reminds me that the Audi R8 did start with a NA V8, and I know a few Audi owners actually preferred the V8 version over the V10. 

The original Audi R8 with the 4.2l V8 moved telepathically with near instantaneous responses.  The heavier V10 variant just didn't have the scalpel-like feel and often felt edgier and less poised.  Have felt that Audi has missed its opportunity of placing the 2.9l V6 biturbo motor in the R8 Mk II platform to emulate the original car.  

Returning to the new Corvette, the aluminum space frame does resemble the space frame employed in the Audi/Lamborghini with one noticeable deviation.  The Corvette frame relies on six very large castings called the Bedford six, after GM's Bedford, Indiana manufacturing facility.  The six castings dramatically reduce the space frame part count, which, of course, reduces assembly costs.  

Another interesting angle on the new Corvette is the use of an old-fashioned overhead valve pushrod small block V8.  While large in displacement and a less than enviable hp/liter rating compared with its European peers, its compact dimensions mean that the center of gravity is very low for a dry sump V8.  

CGX car nut:

That is the base configuration in Ceramic Grey.  Then bi-level wing is part of the Z51 performance package which include the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires, sports exhaust, and larger brakes.  The rear brakes are larger in diameter than the front brakes.   

Maybe to fill out the larger diameter rear wheels?

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

White is a very flattering color for the C8. I hope it looks as good in person and the exhaust is aggressive sounding. My concern is the boxy rear end which has been the hallmark of recent Corvettes. 

Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

I saw the C8 in person at Road America this weekend.  The color was "Zeus Bronze" -- sort of a root beer brown with some bronze in it.  Not attractive to me at all, an odd choice for a display car.  

Fit, materials, and finish were very good at the $60-80K level.  Frunk was a bit smaller than a Porsche, getting tapered at the bottom more.  The rear trunk has quite a bit of room, provided you don't have the roof in there.  The roof just snaps in to holders, and you could work a few soft bags around it.  One guy could handle the roof, though it would be easier with two.  I'd call it a hard-roof Targa.  The interior was an attractive medium tan, a mix of leather and what looked like alcantara (you could stick your head in, but not sit in it.)  

I thought it was pretty well done (aside from the ugly paint color), especially for $60K, and should sell very well in the U.S.

One of the G.M. guys started and revved it, sounds like your typical small block Chevy, and it pleased the crowd.  I do wonder a bit about once they start shoving superchargers and other things in the engine bay, and dealing with the heat dissipation from those.  G.M. doesn't have a lot of experience with mid-engined cars.

The most popular street car I saw, especially with boys, was the orange Lamborghini Huracan used for the IMSA Hot Laps.  Almost every kid I saw took a selfie and other shots with the car, and some even asked to sit in it for photos, which they gladly allowed.  Interesting that Ferrari may be getting out-marketed with the younger crowd....

Jim_in_Iowa:

I saw the C8 in person at Road America this weekend.  The color was "Zeus Bronze" -- sort of a root beer brown with some bronze in it.  Not attractive to me at all, an odd choice for a display car.  

Fit, materials, and finish were very good at the $60-80K level.  Frunk was a bit smaller than a Porsche, getting tapered at the bottom more.  The rear trunk has quite a bit of room, provided you don't have the roof in there.  The roof just snaps in to holders, and you could work a few soft bags around it.  One guy could handle the roof, though it would be easier with two.  I'd call it a hard-roof Targa.  The interior was an attractive medium tan, a mix of leather and what looked like alcantara (you could stick your head in, but not sit in it.)  

I thought it was pretty well done (aside from the ugly paint color), especially for $60K, and should sell very well in the U.S.

One of the G.M. guys started and revved it, sounds like your typical small block Chevy, and it pleased the crowd.  I do wonder a bit about once they start shoving superchargers and other things in the engine bay, and dealing with the heat dissipation from those.  G.M. doesn't have a lot of experience with mid-engined cars.

The most popular street car I saw, especially with boys, was the orange Lamborghini Huracan used for the IMSA Hot Laps.  Almost every kid I saw took a selfie and other shots with the car, and some even asked to sit in it for photos, which they gladly allowed.  Interesting that Ferrari may be getting out-marketed with the younger crowd....

I was also there yesterday.

The fit and finish on the Corvette were a bit disappointing to me: wavy paint on the body panels, the intake appears to be glued or tacked on to the door (not a part of the door itself.  The interior looks much nicer than previous Corvette efforts (I hitched a ride up from Chicago in a friend’s 2LT C7 Stingray, so we spent a lot of time discussing the merits of the interior materials).

The orange Huracan Evo sounded excellent, by far the best among the street cars that IMSA uses for hot laps (991.2 Turbo pace car, Panamera Turbo S E Hybrid Wagon, Huracan, AMG GT-R, M3/5 - hard to tell, etc.); in fact, I believe the Super Trofeo cars have an exhaust that is pretty similar to the street car.

In terms of sound, however ... nothing compares to the outgoing RSR through the Kettle Bottoms, Canada Corner, and Thunder Valley (I attend most IMSA races and have heard the car on every track on the current calendar, as well as at COTA and Le Mans; the aforementioned stretch of Road America is by far the loudest given the narrow tree canopy and high speeds achieved in that part of the lap).

Jim_in_Iowa:

The most popular street car I saw, especially with boys, was the orange Lamborghini Huracan used for the IMSA Hot Laps.  Almost every kid I saw took a selfie and other shots with the car, and some even asked to sit in it for photos, which they gladly allowed.  Interesting that Ferrari may be getting out-marketed with the younger crowd....

Yeah, I don't know why but kids love the Huracan.  Big kids too. 
Speaking of sound: The RSR is no street legal car, so the sound is of course "different".

The Evo will probably be the last standard production car to sound that good, I doubt that anything coming afterwards, no matter what brand, will sound even close.  Europe is under a strict noise emissions regulations spell, nothing will be the same anymore and it will get even much worse.  

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

Europe is under a strict noise emissions regulations spell, nothing will be the same anymore and it will get even much worse. 
 

To be honest: I don't care.

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

RC:

Europe is under a strict noise emissions regulations spell, nothing will be the same anymore and it will get even much worse. 
 

To be honest: I don't care.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Jim_in_Iowa:

G.M. doesn't have a lot of experience with mid-engined cars.

Jim - no respect for the Fiero??  

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

That car is proof of GM’s limited knowledge of mid-engined cars.  

CGX car nut:

That car is proof of GM’s limited knowledge of mid-engined cars.  

The Fiero is proof how a company like GM can mess up an actually pretty interesting concept.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

CGX car nut:

That car is proof of GM’s limited knowledge of mid-engined cars.  

The Fiero is proof how a company like GM can mess up an actually pretty interesting concept.  

The issue with the Fiero wasn’t exactly engineering but the restrictions placed on the development team to not compete against the Corvette.  The official edict from corporate was that the team would develop a two-seat commuter car using existing economy car components.  This meant the suspension from the dreadful Chevette and the weak powertrain from the infamous X-cars.   To bolster sales, after several years of failure, the Pontiac engineers were allowed to develop a new suspension system and make overall refinements.  They did but GM, in the infinite corporate mindset, cancelled the car the next year.  

This brings back good/bad memories. I was working at GM during that period (mid to late 80s), on the Lotus Active Suspension Corvette. My boss kept insisting I buy a Fiero or any GM car as my fellow employees did not appreciate my driving a 944 to work at GM. The last version of the Fiero, with the V6, the bespoke rear suspension and the updated styling did tempt me. Not enough though...

Video of the convertible and exhaust sound. Sounds aggressive.

2020-chevy-corvette-spy-video

Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

What a shame, that rear is a mess, really fugly 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

KMM:

This brings back good/bad memories. I was working at GM during that period (mid to late 80s), on the Lotus Active Suspension Corvette. My boss kept insisting I buy a Fiero or any GM car as my fellow employees did not appreciate my driving a 944 to work at GM. The last version of the Fiero, with the V6, the bespoke rear suspension and the updated styling did tempt me. Not enough though...

 

Definitely interesting times!  I was still in college during that period; however, since the family business worked closely with several units of General Motors, and Ford, I learned much about the Big 3.  We had a Fiero GT for a brief period of time but it was replaced by a Nissan 300ZX.  My Father also had one of the very first Ford Taurus sold in the States and it was, to put it mildly, a disaster.  Within the first week of ownership a heater hose split and it took a week to get a replacement part because the parts inventories were still ramping up.  After the driver's side seat failed, my Father replaced that car with a Cadillac and then quickly with an Audi.  He remained an Audi enthusiast for the rest of his life.

Returning quickly to the Ford, I had a discussion with a Ford engineer years later and I mentioned that it wasn't possible to use a piece of hose as a temporary replacement for that molded heater hose since it had two different I.Ds.  The engineer casually explained that Ford had the design since the mid-1950s and it really was a nuisance but there was no imperative in Finance to allocate funds to change the design.  

Finally, I really want to try the new Audi S8 with Audi's version of active suspension. I have driven the Mercedes active suspension and found it merely okay.

Guest:

Jim_in_Iowa:

I saw the C8 in person at Road America this weekend.  The color was "Zeus Bronze" -- sort of a root beer brown with some bronze in it.  Not attractive to me at all, an odd choice for a display car.  

Fit, materials, and finish were very good at the $60-80K level.  Frunk was a bit smaller than a Porsche, getting tapered at the bottom more.  The rear trunk has quite a bit of room, provided you don't have the roof in there.  The roof just snaps in to holders, and you could work a few soft bags around it.  One guy could handle the roof, though it would be easier with two.  I'd call it a hard-roof Targa.  The interior was an attractive medium tan, a mix of leather and what looked like alcantara (you could stick your head in, but not sit in it.)  

I thought it was pretty well done (aside from the ugly paint color), especially for $60K, and should sell very well in the U.S.

One of the G.M. guys started and revved it, sounds like your typical small block Chevy, and it pleased the crowd.  I do wonder a bit about once they start shoving superchargers and other things in the engine bay, and dealing with the heat dissipation from those.  G.M. doesn't have a lot of experience with mid-engined cars.

The most popular street car I saw, especially with boys, was the orange Lamborghini Huracan used for the IMSA Hot Laps.  Almost every kid I saw took a selfie and other shots with the car, and some even asked to sit in it for photos, which they gladly allowed.  Interesting that Ferrari may be getting out-marketed with the younger crowd....

I was also there yesterday.

The fit and finish on the Corvette were a bit disappointing to me: wavy paint on the body panels, the intake appears to be glued or tacked on to the door (not a part of the door itself.  The interior looks much nicer than previous Corvette efforts (I hitched a ride up from Chicago in a friend’s 2LT C7 Stingray, so we spent a lot of time discussing the merits of the interior materials).

The orange Huracan Evo sounded excellent, by far the best among the street cars that IMSA uses for hot laps (991.2 Turbo pace car, Panamera Turbo S E Hybrid Wagon, Huracan, AMG GT-R, M3/5 - hard to tell, etc.); in fact, I believe the Super Trofeo cars have an exhaust that is pretty similar to the street car.

In terms of sound, however ... nothing compares to the outgoing RSR through the Kettle Bottoms, Canada Corner, and Thunder Valley (I attend most IMSA races and have heard the car on every track on the current calendar, as well as at COTA and Le Mans; the aforementioned stretch of Road America is by far the loudest given the narrow tree canopy and high speeds achieved in that part of the lap).

Yes, the 2017-2019 RSR sounds sublime.  The "exhaust" are a pair of large diameter tubes from the exhaust manifold with a couple of 90 degree bends, exiting out back, no attempts at muffling (unlike the Cup Car or Gt3-R, which have sort-of sound suppressors.)  I say that RSR is the second-best Porsche sound ever, behind the RS Spyder (TYP 9R6.)  The RSR sounds better than the other GTLM cars, in part because it revs so much higher.  See this table:

https://competitors.imsa.com/sites/default/files/reults/downlods/tb_iwsc_19-30_bop_tables_070319.pdf

Now as this is a Corvette thread, I might add the most impressive Corvette ever, at least to me, was the GT1 class C6.R:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_C6.R

As for the panel waves, maybe the idea was use the ugly paint so at least people like me wouldn't look too closely?  :-)

The Pfaff car is a GT3-R, with a sort-of muffler.  The RSR has pipes with some heat insulation around them.

No, no respect for the Fiero.

A good friend of mine inherited one, and I drove it on one leg of a long road trip.  It was a great idea, but poorly executed, likely due to the infamous G.M. bean counters.  The motor was uninspired (I4), lots of econo car parts bin pieces, etc.  I've heard the V6s at the end were much better, but I never drove one of those.

His Fiero met an eponymous end.  He had it into the Pontiac dealer for service.  He got a call from the dealership general manager.  The tech had it out on a test drive, it had caught on fire and burned to the ground before the fire department could get there, melted into a blob.  The tech was safe, but just barely.  I told him well if it has to burn down, while in the dealer's possession is the best place for it.  To Pontiac's credit, he had a check in the mail within a week for a more than reasonable amount for the car.

Jim_in_Iowa:

No, no respect for the Fiero.

A good friend of mine inherited one, and I drove it on one leg of a long road trip.  It was a great idea, but poorly executed, likely due to the infamous G.M. bean counters.  The motor was uninspired (I4), lots of econo car parts bin pieces, etc.  I've heard the V6s at the end were much better, but I never drove one of those.

His Fiero met an eponymous end.  He had it into the Pontiac dealer for service.  He got a call from the dealership general manager.  The tech had it out on a test drive, it had caught on fire and burned to the ground before the fire department could get there, melted into a blob.  The tech was safe, but just barely.  I told him well if it has to burn down, while in the dealer's possession is the best place for it.  To Pontiac's credit, he had a check in the mail within a week for a more than reasonable amount for the car.

Fieros with the four cylinder Iron Duke engine, which was the original infamous Vega motor with a block made from cast iron, not aluminium, were prone to engine fires.  In GM's infinite wisdom, when the Iron Duke was moved to the mid-engine location, the oil sump was made smaller.  If the oil level wasn't religiously checked, low oil levels would lead to engine fires.  Other Iron Duke applications usually just had the engine fail catastrophically.  

Returning to the C8 Corvette, production is just ramping up at the Bowling Green facility so the cars being shown are from the pony run.  While these cars should faithfully replicate the final production versions, they seldom do.  The C7 Corvette paint finish was usually quite good and one would expect the same for the C8.

My wife doesn't often ride with me in my RS but today I took a spirited drive to a place where we jog. As she was leaving the car she asked " Explain to me again me why you are considering a Corvette?". The tone in her voice said it all.

Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

Didn't take long..........

just a real life crash test....

Tim

2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S;  2019 Speedster (incoming)
 

Chevrolet releases 2020 C8 Corvette pricing.   Base is $58,900 plus transportation costs.   https://www.motor1.com/news/365216/new-2020-corvette-price-details/

Now I need to find Cammisa's review to see what he has to say about the car's handling