Crown

It is OK, there are plenty of people even today who like to drive using obsolete technology, look how many here own manual cars (yours truly included).

But mentalities change, sometime fast. I would not be surprised if the tolerance for loud cars would vanish soon enough or example. Or the mentality of going to a gas station to refuel which is a colossal waste of time. Or the mentality of going super fast on the road.

SciFrog:

It is OK, there are plenty of people even today who like to drive using obsolete technology, look how many here own manual cars (yours truly included).

But mentalities change, sometime fast. I would not be surprised if the tolerance for loud cars would vanish soon enough or example. Or the mentality of going to a gas station to refuel which is a colossal waste of time. Or the mentality of going super fast on the road.

That's still 5 mins as compared to 40 mins at a Tesla station.

Now if you want to say about a fully charged EV car's range, then the comparable would be a car with a full tank of gas, which happens to last longer than any EV's range.

The best part of parking a normal car inside a garage, one just lock it and walk away, as oppose to opening the charging door and plugging in a charger before walking away. and for some structures that don't have individual plugs but a common shared charging station, one has to go back and re-park the car to free up the spot for someone else, more hassles.

Scifrog:

It is OK, there are plenty of people even today who like to drive using obsolete technology, look how many here own manual cars (yours truly included).

But mentalities change, sometime fast. I would not be surprised if the tolerance for loud cars would vanish soon enough or example. Or the mentality of going to a gas station to refuel which is a colossal waste of time. Or the mentality of going super fast on the road.

I know right? It's like those guys that like to use an obsolete swiss mechanical watch instead of a digital one, what is that about? Or like to drive those impractical two wheeled manual ICE vehicles called motorcycles, or eat dinner later than 5pm... animals. Some people are just plain crazy... 

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Tesla stations are for long trips. I plan to never have to go to a Tesla charging station 

No doubt EV will be the future. For now, I agree with Nick. They aren't ready for prime time.

Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

SciFrog:

It is OK, there are plenty of people even today who like to drive using obsolete technology, look how many here own manual cars (yours truly included).

But mentalities change, sometime fast. I would not be surprised if the tolerance for loud cars would vanish soon enough or example. Or the mentality of going to a gas station to refuel which is a colossal waste of time. Or the mentality of going super fast on the road.

Wrote the man, who a couple of days ago posted that he would consider a Lamborghini Urus.  In your new paradigm, that car and the Ferrari in your garage are backwards too.  

nberry:

No doubt EV will be the future. For now, I agree with Nick. They aren't ready for prime time.

Unfortunately, that future is here today because of pending regulation in the EU, China, and California.  Whilst charging at home, every evening, is possible, once the density of charging increases, those local urban grids will be stressed as demand is shifted from peak to the old non-peak hours.  California, and China, already have weak electrical grids, this will only impose additional burdens to that overtaxed system.

Porsche NA sent me a gift of a new Taycan brochure today. Nothing really new in it. But a signal they want to push their new EV direction hard. 

Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order

CGX car nut:

SciFrog:

It is OK, there are plenty of people even today who like to drive using obsolete technology, look how many here own manual cars (yours truly included).

But mentalities change, sometime fast. I would not be surprised if the tolerance for loud cars would vanish soon enough or example. Or the mentality of going to a gas station to refuel which is a colossal waste of time. Or the mentality of going super fast on the road.

Wrote the man, who a couple of days ago posted that he would consider a Lamborghini Urus.  In your new paradigm, that car and the Ferrari in your garage are backwards too.  

They are, but they are for occasional uses.

For daily, they are too much of a hassle. Today the commute back with the RRS with painful without autopilot and without the special lanes. It is going to collect dust expect for some rare weekend tour.

Porsche Taycan will drive like a 911, fewer than 10,000 units this year, says CEO

https://apple.news/AmcthLKWTRd2L-xsiZDcx9A

Their target market is the 911, not the Panamera. Yet it will be cheaper than the 911? Mmmmmmmm something does not add up, again.

nberry:

No doubt EV will be the future. For now, I agree with Nick. They aren't ready for prime time.

You know, I'm still not 100% convinced about that. Call me idiotic, but the physics imposes a pretty hard ceiling on how much they can and  will improve. 

That is not to say there wont be quite a few running around (especially in big cities)

SciFrog:

Porsche Taycan will drive like a 911, fewer than 10,000 units this year, says CEO

https://apple.news/AmcthLKWTRd2L-xsiZDcx9A

Their target market is the 911, not the Panamera. Yet it will be cheaper than the 911? Mmmmmmmm something does not add up, again.

The dead give away is the "will drive like a 911" pitch... with the torque of an electric motor, low center of gravity and high HP output it may set lap times similar to a 911 but that is not the same as the 2 ton sedan "driving" like a smaller, much lighter and sportier setup 911 sportscar. It's just the marketing machine gearing up.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Whoopsy:

EV will be ready for prime time when charging stations are as numerous as gas stations, or at least half as numerous.

But it's a chicken and egg situation. People won't build more charging stations until there are more EVs. And people won't buy more EVs until there are more charging stations.

Buying a EV is like having a prostate exam. People don't look forward to that at this moment in time. Maybe in a couple decades.

 

 Also, they will be ready for prime time once new battery technology will be around, making the cars not only much lighter but also faster to charge.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

^And all "old" models will have the faith of an 5 year old mobile phone... Sadly... 

Years ago I predicted  the then new ATM machines and self-serve gas stations would be flops.   Since then I have learned to embrace new technologies. And also to respect Porsche, which has done a fine job of adapting and creating fine new products. So I’m excited and hopeful, but still need a more appealing design to make me enthusiastic.

Carlos from Spain:

Scifrog:

It is OK, there are plenty of people even today who like to drive using obsolete technology, look how many here own manual cars (yours truly included).

But mentalities change, sometime fast. I would not be surprised if the tolerance for loud cars would vanish soon enough or example. Or the mentality of going to a gas station to refuel which is a colossal waste of time. Or the mentality of going super fast on the road.

I know right? It's like those guys that like to use an obsolete swiss mechanical watch instead of a digital one, what is that about? Or like to drive those impractical two wheeled manual ICE vehicles called motorcycles, or eat dinner later than 5pm... animals. Some people are just plain crazy... 

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Lot of crazy people out there ;)

At least you can wear a mechanical watch and a digital one at the same time, can’t drive two cars at the same time 

RC:

Whoopsy:

EV will be ready for prime time when charging stations are as numerous as gas stations, or at least half as numerous.

But it's a chicken and egg situation. People won't build more charging stations until there are more EVs. And people won't buy more EVs until there are more charging stations.

Buying a EV is like having a prostate exam. People don't look forward to that at this moment in time. Maybe in a couple decades.

 

 Also, they will be ready for prime time once new battery technology will be around, making the cars not only much lighter but also faster to charge.

Whilst battery technology is improving its diffusion of innovation cycle is much longer than that of semiconductors, for example, because it is based on chemistry not physics.  There are infrastructure  limitations on how much electricity can be crammed into battery too.  

Internal combustion engines may lack the efficiency but carbon-based fuels do delivery significant levels of energy, approximately 9 kWh per liter, very conveniently.  Charging an electric vehicle isn’t as straightforward.  Porsche’s 800V/450 kW system delivers roughly the energy equivalent of one liter of fuel per minute, not including the taper as the SoC increases.  As the battery becomes more “full” the reversible chemical reaction slows, meaning it takes more time for the same chemical reaction to occur.  This is why Audi uses only 83 kWh of its 95 kWh battery pack for its quick charge system; it uses excess capacity to less the effect of the taper and to increase battery life.

There is video from a recent Audi e-tron event in Northern California at an Electrify America charging facility that reinforces the problems of high capacity charging, even at 150 kW.   There are massive transformations and battery packs in background with noisy cooling systems to handle the heat generated by these systems. It is amazing but it also illustrates the relatively small energy footprint of a petro-based refueling center   

Conveniently you are completely ignoring the fact that 95% (if not more) of the charging of EV is done at home... Pair that with solar panels and you will do more for the planet than any other aspect you could act on.

And may I remind you California is now mandating solar panels on new constructions...

Made a quick calculation and realized that I am going to save $6,000 in gas every year if using the Tesla exclusively for my work commute vs using a high powered SUV  Then I will save 10 hours per year not going to the gas station, and another 20 hours by using the special fast lanes.

Then vs my experience with the Cayenne TTS, over 4 years I will save $12,000 in brakes, $8,000 in tires and $3,000 in service, then I will save another $50k in depreciation. Total $100k, $25k a year. Amazing.

Audi’s approach to cripple their pack is stupid. Just educate people instead.

SciFrog:

Conveniently you are completely ignoring the fast that 95% (if not more) of the charging of EV is done at home... Pair that with solar panels and you will do more for the planet than any other aspect you could act on.

And may I remind you California is now mandating solar panels on new constructions...

Made a quick calculation and realized that I am going to save $6,000 in gas every year if using the Tesla exclusively for my work commute vs using a high powered SUV  Then I will save 10 hours per year not going to the gas station, and another 20 hours by using the special fast lanes.

Then vs my experience with the Cayenne TTS, over 4 years I will save $12,000 in brakes, $8,000 in tires and $3,000 in service, then I will save another $50k in depreciation. Total $100k, $25k a year. Amazing.

Addressed home charging in a previous posting and how concentrations of home charging stations impact grid loadings and shift demand from what was peak to a new peak load that was once non-peak.   

Mandating so-called CLEAN solar panel is, once again, misguided political policy that is only appreciated by those that fail to understand the science and engineering required to maintain a stable grid.   Hey, if it makes you feel good, knock yourself out.  I don’t have the time to write about the numerous issues on incomplete and facile policy.  

The shift will take decades, plenty of time to improve the grid. Also the grid can be stabilized by using the car’s packs or with power walls and with increased solar panel installations. And that’s not even thinking outside the box. Electric demand is lower at night, pricing can be modulated to smooth things out even further and if you have a way to store energy.

Next time you fly over the US, just look at how many light manufactures have solar panels on the roofs. It is amazing.

You keep pointing single bottleneck points when everything will most likely fall nicely in place, especially if governments put their will into it.

According to my sources the wordwide dealer introduction will be in Januari. Indeed they will start with the most expenisve versions even the "4S" will be introduced at a later stage.

Wonderbar:

Years ago I predicted  the then new ATM machines and self-serve gas stations would be flops.   Since then I have learned to embrace new technologies. And also to respect Porsche, which has done a fine job of adapting and creating fine new products. So I’m excited and hopeful, but still need a more appealing design to make me enthusiastic.

Seriously, Sydney? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

 Seriously, RC. I’m showing my age, but in the 60s and 70s we always went inside a bank to make deposits and withdraw funds. Also in the US for many years, and still in some states like New Jersey, an attendant would come out to your car to fill it up and clean the windshield. I got pretty used to that type of service. 

We also would dress up in a suit and tie to fly on an airplane.  My father and his generation would wear a wide brimmed felt hat while driving..

Wonderbar:

 Seriously, RC. I’m showing my age, but in the 60s and 70s we always went inside a bank to make deposits and withdraw funds. Also in the US for many years, and still in some states like New Jersey, an attendant would come out to your car to fill it up and clean the windshield. I got pretty used to that type of service. 

I always hated both, I love doing stuff myself. 

When Shell introduced that stupid attendant service for fuel ups in Germany a couple of years ago, I always had to fight off the guys who jumped next to my car to fill it up, I hate this stuff. I even once tipped a guy just so he goes away.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Personally, I always try go to her stations where there are attendants that fill it up for you when possible, my thinking is that you are supporting an extra job as opposed to self service which basically costs the same yet they employ only one person behind the register. I'm not going to go lot of my way to find one but if several are on my way, I will stop are the one with attendants, I know it's insignificant where I stop but given the choice... and maybe it's do the same.

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

Personally, I always try go to her stations where there are attendants that fill it up for you when possible, my thinking is that you are supporting an extra job as opposed to self service which basically costs the same yet they employ only one person behind the register. I'm not going to go lot of my way to find one but if several are on my way, I will stop are the one with attendants.

I just don't like it when strangers "handle" my car...or my money.  I like to do it myself. I get your point, I really do but I want to be in control all the time, so... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

Wonderbar:

 Seriously, RC. I’m showing my age, but in the 60s and 70s we always went inside a bank to make deposits and withdraw funds. Also in the US for many years, and still in some states like New Jersey, an attendant would come out to your car to fill it up and clean the windshield. I got pretty used to that type of service. 

I always hated both, I love doing stuff myself. 

When Shell introduced that stupid attendant service for fuel ups in Germany a couple of years ago, I always had to fight off the guys who jumped next to my car to fill it up, I hate this stuff. I even once tipped a guy just so he goes away.  

+1

There are a couple states in the US where it is mandatory to have the fuel station attendant fill your car (Oregon and at least one other).  I hate that.  I guess the reason is to give people a job?

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi