Crown

Guest:

I think the 4.2L will be implemented as:

992.1 GT3 = 4.0L 

Care to venture a guess on PS and TQ?  Same equipment (ITB's) and specs as 991.3 RS or slightly more?

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18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

This is what this forum is all about. Good old fashioned speculation and educated guesses.

love it 

Guest:

I think the 4.2L will be implemented as:

992.1 GT3 = 4.0L 

992.1 RS = 4.2L (RS homologates RSR)

992.2 GT3 = 4.2L (from prior RS)

992.2 RS = 4.2L + mild electrification

Porsche will have no trouble selling every example of the above cars without going “above and beyond” what I laid out above in terms of what they offer for the MSRP.  There will be few other cars available that offer NA engines and a manual option, and none in the same segment: Miata, Camaro (which may die), Mustang.  Corvette won’t offer manual, R8 dies soon (and second gen never offered manual), next gen Huracan won’t offer manual either.

A final point, I believe that the RSR doesn’t have a catalytic converter (not that it matters).  You can see the header configuration in the technical paper above.

Guest

Id agree with this but offer that the 992.1 GT3RS will be 4.0l with the intro of the 4.2L as a "limited 50th RS annvversary edition" in 2023.

The 4.2L would then flow into GT3 & RS productuion with the 992.2 gen cars...

Grant

I think its techincally totally possible to build a 140PS/L engine for the GT3 but after the 991.1 GT3 engine debacle I believe Porsche will (as they should) err on the side of what is proven/reliable and also what will be durable. Sure the most stressed 4.0L in the current race program is 140PS/L but I suggest its probably suited to spring events and is engine lifed at 50-80 hrs. The enduro cars and the Cup have 100 hour engines but in most tuned are 515 PS or below (such as the RSR above).

Agreed its great to be having some proper debate on a forum. Rare thing these days. Ive given up on Pistonheads because its Porsche GT section is really Coffee & Cars and value and deviated stitching discusssions (doesnt seem many folk in UK buy a GT3/RS for anything other than to sit in the garage and hopefully bank them some money rather than rag around a race track!) and Rennlist I havent posted for years as theres mostly a new crowd over there...

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2017 991.2 GT3 Manual, 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia QV, 2017 Macan S (Petrol)

The Porsche race cars, the GT3Rs and RSRs, while speccing longer rebuild periods  for customers, still get rebuild after every race weekend especially the RSR engine.

In race trim both flat 6s are also kept well under 9000 rpm. Like closer to 8000-8500 rpm. The Cup car I raced was running ~8400 rpm for 486hp. 

The street car engine from the GT3 and GT3RS are actually higher revving with more exotic materials. 

since max power is at 8250 rpm - it's sound over driving fast....

BjoernB:

since max power is at 8250 rpm - it's sound over driving fast....

Taking it to the redline is all about catching the next ratio higher in the RPM band so you are closer after shifting to the peak TQ/BHP. It matters.

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2017 991.2 GT3 Manual, 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia QV, 2017 Macan S (Petrol)

macca993:

BjoernB:

since max power is at 8250 rpm - it's sound over driving fast....

Taking it to the redline is all about catching the next ratio higher in the RPM band so you are closer after shifting to the peak TQ/BHP. It matters.

Indeed, you need to rev past the peak power to keep the engine closer to peak power in the next gear... 

...check out the power curve for the GT3 R... 

macca993:

BjoernB:

since max power is at 8250 rpm - it's sound over driving fast....

Taking it to the redline is all about catching the next ratio higher in the RPM band so you are closer after shifting to the peak TQ/BHP. It matters.

Yep, your average power over time is much higher with redline shifts than if you shift at peak power.

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18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

steelested:

This is what this forum is all about. Good old fashioned speculation and educated guesses.

love it 

Once the numbers are known, there is always one post with sufficiently close guesses to claim that on RT we knew it all along 

2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

Especially when they change HP at last minute just before presentation 

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

Especially when they change HP at last minute just before presentation 

Or the redline like they embarressingly did before releasing the following video in 2015 of the 991.1 GT3RS with the original 9000 rpm rev line it was supposed to have before they newtered it (they dropped it to 8800 rpm in 1st gear but by thrid gear its under 8700 rpm based on my AIM Solo DL data from the ECU!). go to 11.22 minutes. Not often talked about this embarressing moment in Porsche history much like not talked about real reason for these MA176 engines failing (poor oiling and hydrallic tappets that pump down above 8600 rpm...)o 11.22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZyXiqGd74M

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2017 991.2 GT3 Manual, 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia QV, 2017 Macan S (Petrol)

oops that should be 8.07 minutes inti the video.

This was meant to be the official 991.1 GT3RS launch video...

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2017 991.2 GT3 Manual, 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia QV, 2017 Macan S (Petrol)

Yeah, definitely. 991.1 GTs are the modern embarrassing versions. The last minute change of the redline, the stricter redline on the R (8,500rpm), the multiple revision of the GT3 and RS engines...welcome to VW control 991.2 are much more accomplished but the taste of the .1 fiasco is still sour. 

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

Yeah, definitely. 991.1 GTs are the modern embarrassing versions. The last minute change of the redline, the stricter redline on the R (8,500rpm), the multiple revision of the GT3 and RS engines...welcome to VW control 991.2 are much more accomplished but the taste of the .1 fiasco is still sour. 

Not sure if it's a coincidence or not, but 991.1 GT3 engine is the first made before testing in racing first...

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

The MA176 in the 991.1 GT3/RS was indeed untested in racing and was the first (and hopefully) only time Porsche will entertain such a folly with the introduction of a new engine architecture to the GT3 range.

Its rumoured this mistake cost them over a 100M Euro provision/balance sheet adjustment between 2014 and 2024 when their global MA176 GT3 engine warranty expires - but I believe in reality it cost much more.... 

This is why I dont expect we will see the MA177 evolve to 4.2L in the GT3/RS until we have seen it properly tried and tested on the circuit. As its yet barely been used in anger I suspect that will be MY2022 at earliest (992.1 GT3RS) but suspect possibly later (MY2023 992.1 RS "anniversary" limited numbers close out model - if such a thing comes to pass).

This is also the reason we cannot expect any Kerrs/Hybrid in the 992.1 generation GT products.

Of course all the above is moot and void if Porsche should instead decide to divorse the GT3 product range drivetrain architecture form the Cup/RSR racing program. 

If they do that Im not sure I would be a future customer....

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2017 991.2 GT3 Manual, 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia QV, 2017 Macan S (Petrol)

Ho, Ho Ho; Santa Brings His Aerokit Porsche 911 (992) Out To Play...

(24 December 2019)

Porsche 911 owners wanting a sports car that stands out thanks to a towering rear wing don’t have to spend extraordinary amounts of money for a GT-badged model like the GT3 or GT2 RS. Porsche’s aerokit can do the job just fine.

A little known option offered through Porsche Exclusive for the 911 is the Aerokit. It’s been available across multiple generations of 911 and has long triggered debate with some loving it and others hating it. Our spy photographers were recently able to snap a 992 prototype out and about during testing complete with the latest aero kit.

These certainly aren’t the first images available of the 992-generation car with the aerokit. In fact, a series of images showing a white 911 Carrera S with the aerokit surfaced at the start of the year. The presence of two oval-shaped tailpipes on this prototype leads us to believe that it is base 911 Carrera model.

In 2020, the latest-generation Porsche 911 GT3 is expected to be presented to the world and it is shaping up to feature an even more eye-catching rear wing than the one pictured. According to early reports, the new GT3 is expected to use a 4.0-liter naturally-aspirated six-cylinder delivering in excess of 520 hp while likely revving to around 9,000 rpm. Like the outgoing GT3, the new car’s engine will be one of the finest on the market and likely offered alongside a six-speed manual transmission and an optional PDK gearbox.

Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/12/ho-ho-ho-santa-brings-his-aerokit-porsche-911-992-out-to-play/

The back spoiler looks so wrong....can’t believe someone at Porsche designed that thing

Tesla Model S P100d. 2018 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳

EnglishManInNY:

The back spoiler looks so wrong....can’t believe someone at Porsche designed that thing

Sometimes desired aerodynamic loadings dictate the overall aero package design versus aesthetics. Recall the Bauhaus dogma of Walter Gropius: Form follows function.  

A reminder of an article by an Australian magazine a tear ago when August A made a few statements about the new GT3 and RS indicating the GT3 would have 4.0L and 523bhp and the RS would see a small displacement increase. In prior internviews with the same Australian publication he has once before stated some facts that came to pass (and also some statements that were badly translated as to be misleading) so its possible this is a red herring but worthy or re visiting given the discussions we have been having. As time passes what he says seems more likely than not...

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/porsche-992-gt3-rs-will-have-the-largest-engine-ever-fitted-to-a-911 

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2017 991.2 GT3 Manual, 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia QV, 2017 Macan S (Petrol)

macca993:

A reminder of an article by an Australian magazine a tear ago when August A made a few statements about the new GT3 and RS indicating the GT3 would have 4.0L and 523bhp and the RS would see a small displacement increase.

So, I guess 523bhp is equal to 530PS (gain of 30 PS over 991.2 GT3, 20 PS over Speedster, and 10 PS over 991.2 RS).  Sounds about right...

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18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Yip Grant. Sounds like the kind of delta we would see from the PAG marketing team ;-P

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2017 991.2 GT3 Manual, 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia QV, 2017 Macan S (Petrol)

Grant:

macca993:

A reminder of an article by an Australian magazine a tear ago when August A made a few statements about the new GT3 and RS indicating the GT3 would have 4.0L and 523bhp and the RS would see a small displacement increase.

So, I guess 523bhp is equal to 530PS (gain of 30 PS over 991.2 GT3, 20 PS over Speedster, and 10 PS over 991.2 RS).  Sounds about right...

--

 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

Last rumor I heard was 520 hp for the GT3 and 540 hp for the GT3 RS. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

Grant:

macca993:

A reminder of an article by an Australian magazine a tear ago when August A made a few statements about the new GT3 and RS indicating the GT3 would have 4.0L and 523bhp and the RS would see a small displacement increase.

So, I guess 523bhp is equal to 530PS (gain of 30 PS over 991.2 GT3, 20 PS over Speedster, and 10 PS over 991.2 RS).  Sounds about right...

Last rumor I heard was 520 hp for the GT3 and 540 hp for the GT3 RS. 

It sounds like we can look forward to an exciting year ahead... 

• 2020 Porsche 992 GT3 and GT3 Touring with 4.0 flat-six Porsche Motorsport engine ~ 520hp
• 2021 Porsche 992 GT3 RS with 4.2 (homologation) flat-six Porsche Motorsport engine ~ 540hp

...Happy New Year to Andreas Preuninger and his GT team! 

RC:

Grant:

macca993:

A reminder of an article by an Australian magazine a tear ago when August A made a few statements about the new GT3 and RS indicating the GT3 would have 4.0L and 523bhp and the RS would see a small displacement increase.

So, I guess 523bhp is equal to 530PS (gain of 30 PS over 991.2 GT3, 20 PS over Speedster, and 10 PS over 991.2 RS).  Sounds about right...

--

 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

Last rumor I heard was 520 hp for the GT3 and 540 hp for the GT3 RS. 

Do you think you heard 520 and 540 bhp or ps?  I guess it makes about 7 hp difference

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Grant:

RC:

Grant:

macca993:

A reminder of an article by an Australian magazine a tear ago when August A made a few statements about the new GT3 and RS indicating the GT3 would have 4.0L and 523bhp and the RS would see a small displacement increase.

So, I guess 523bhp is equal to 530PS (gain of 30 PS over 991.2 GT3, 20 PS over Speedster, and 10 PS over 991.2 RS).  Sounds about right...

--

 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

Last rumor I heard was 520 hp for the GT3 and 540 hp for the GT3 RS. 

Do you think you heard 520 and 540 bhp or ps?  I guess it makes about 7 hp difference

The German "PS"... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

Grant:

RC:

Grant:

macca993:

A reminder of an article by an Australian magazine a tear ago when August A made a few statements about the new GT3 and RS indicating the GT3 would have 4.0L and 523bhp and the RS would see a small displacement increase.

So, I guess 523bhp is equal to 530PS (gain of 30 PS over 991.2 GT3, 20 PS over Speedster, and 10 PS over 991.2 RS).  Sounds about right...

--

 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

 

Last rumor I heard was 520 hp for the GT3 and 540 hp for the GT3 RS. 

Do you think you heard 520 and 540 bhp or ps?  I guess it makes about 7 hp difference

The German "PS"... 

Hmm, that would imply the exact spec as the 991.3 RS (with OPF and ITB's).  That would be disappointing if no improvements at all...

Though I imagine the difference between 520PS and 530PS would be nearly impossible to feel...

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18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

The problem is that with the particulate filter and some other adjustments to CO2 output, it is very difficult to achieve more power from the n/a engine.  The facelift is rumored to get a 48V system (mild hybrid) but I'm still not sure how this is going to work on a GT3 engine.

There will be some significant requirements to reduce CO2 output over the next couple of years, won't be easy. Not only talking fleet output here but individual output of cars, which has been limited as well.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

48V mild hybrids are easy to do. Just replace the normal starter motor with a electric motor. This preserves the rear drive characteristic.

For energy storage, if the aim is only for short bursts, perhaps super capacitors will do. That way, the electric boost will only appear at lower revs, and rely on the engine to provide upper rpm range thrust, suits a NA quite nicely actually since most NA engine makes next to nothing at low rpm always. 

A battery similar in size or even smaller than the 918 battery can also work. Pretty sure with current technology a battery with that capacity can be made in a smaller size now. I doubt it will be that big as it's a mild hybrid that means it can't be plugged in. It's probably going to be much smaller, perhaps in the 2-4kw range. 

Porsche 992 GT3 photoshops for Auto Express...

...ready for Geneva Motor Show 2020? 

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Porsche 992 GT3 photoshops...ready for Geneva Motor Show 2020? 

Unfortunately, latest rumors say not revealed until later in the year at Goodwood 

18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi