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    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    Just what everyone needs, a 2,3 tons Panamera. I just really don't like hybrid tech, obsolete before it matures...

    Sure, it depends how look at it. It will definitely not be the sportiest version, but on the other hand it will be a very nice daily driver with V8 power for the Autobahn and e-power for city commuting. And it's the first power hybrid out there in this class, it will improve the image of hybrids and what e-motors are capable of. It's something new and I think it will sell well because of that. For Porsche it's an additional opportunity to gather knowledge to improve hybrid tech for the future. Remember a 911 hybrid may be on the cards as well, so why not.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Thanks Aldo kiss - there are a lot of +2 tons car around everybody drives - so don't understand the fuzz about it when they clearly have improved the consumption dramatically - well done Porsche kiss


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    I think it is very clever to introduce a hybrid version of a Panamera turbo. You can can drive daily electrical, you have enormous accelerations and if you want you have an ideal autobahn car. 

    I hope their battery can offer a pure electrical range of 100 km with max speed about 130 km/h. This would enable people who has to travel to work over short highway parts to drive electrical to their work.

     


    --

    AM


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    ALDO:

    I think it is very clever to introduce a hybrid version of a Panamera turbo. You can can drive daily electrical, you have enormous accelerations and if you want you have an ideal autobahn car. 

    I hope their battery can offer a pure electrical range of 100 km with max speed about 130 km/h. This would enable people who has to travel to work over short highway parts to drive electrical to their work.

     

    kiss. I doubt that it will be 100km, more like 50km with the current technology, still not that bad.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    Just what everyone needs, a 2,3 tons Panamera. I just really don't like hybrid tech, obsolete before it matures...

    What does a Tesla S P90d weight? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Who cares. They are not addressing the same segment. The Panamera is supposed to be the sporty interpretation of a sedan by Porsche, and fails at driver involvement. The Tesla is a fast comfy car. Furthermore the weight distribution is totally different as is the useable space for passengers and cargo.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    Who cares. They are not addressing the same segment. The Panamera is supposed to be the sporty interpretation of a sedan by Porsche, and fails at driver involvement. The Tesla is a fast comfy car. Furthermore the weight distribution is totally different as is the useable space for passengers and cargo.

    The Panamera was always way too heavy, no matter how good and ingenious the Porsche engineers covered up the weight, using PDCC and whatnot.

    These cars need to get lighter, 200 kg less minimum. Then, you will get the typical Porsche feeling incl. driver involvement. Of course this would still require some technical tricks/gimmicks but the Panamera would be more enjoyable.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Which is why the Panamera hybrid with an EXTRA 300kg makes zero sense.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    RC:

    These cars need to get lighter, 200 kg less minimum. Then, you will get the typical Porsche feeling incl. driver involvement. Of course this would still require some technical tricks/gimmicks but the Panamera would be more enjoyable.

     

    Cutting 200kg, even 150kg is impossible without going to full carbon chassis which is impossible for a saloon. You can't have it all - low weight, comfort, luxury and safety by ever increasing standards. There's nothing more expensive in auto engineering than making a car lighter. 

    What I can't understand is why Porsche has been offering such a characterless and underpowered engine in the Panamera and the Cayenne. And if the new one is 550hp that would be a huge (although expected) disappointment. The 911 TTS can get away with being underpowered because it is a unique package and straight line performance is not everything for sports cars. With the super-saloons it is far more important and given how cheap it is to produce a V8 with 600+ they have no excuse.

    600+ hp is the new normal. No way I am buying a €200K saloon in 2017 with less than that.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Ferrari FF is lighter no? It can be done.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    The FF is 70kg lighter give or take. Add 2 doors, 7cm in length, air suspension and it will be heavier. And it's 150k EUR more expensive. Why do you compare them?


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    We are talking technology and weight, not price... Porsche sells thousands of Panamera vs a few hundred FF at best.

    Somehow I though the Panamera turbo was much heavier than the FF although the FF has way more hp.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    Somehow I though the Panamera turbo was much heavier than the FF although the FF has way more hp.

    If Aldo's quoted hybrid Turbo numbers are correct, then that's not the case 685ps vs 690ps and 900nm vs 697nm for the panamera vs the new GTC4Lusso. The FF had 660ps and 683nm BTW.


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region



    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    neunelf:

    Turbo is confirmed at 404 kW (~550PS)

    http://www.övk.at/htdocs/details.php?lang=de&inline=&type=search&id=1790&search=&userid=&sid=

    Good find... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    They have copied my post from RT smiley


    --

    AM


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    ALDO:

    They have copied my post from RT smiley

    Smiley Smiley

    No, this was actually this: 

    http://www.övk.at/veranstaltungen_/symposien/2016/37_fachprogramm_de.php#2

    The new turbo engine sounds like a treat... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Porsche will speak about the new chassis of the Panamera in june on the Chassis tech. So maybe we will see a online reveal before September.

    Btw: just saw a Mclaren P1 in Zürich... stunning.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    A few articles of first rides with journalists riding along as passengers came out today. A few key common points:

    - Codename G2
    - Debut at the Paris Motor Show
    - Five models confirmed, including a petrol hybrid and a diesel hybrid
    - Three models specifically mentioned are a 4S Diesel with 422 horsepower out of a V8 engine, a 440-horsepower 3.0L V6 for the petrol 4S and Porsche's new 4.0L V8 for the Turbo/Turbo S with 550 horsepower for the Turbo [600 rumored for Turbo S]
    - Exterior styling tremendously improved
    - Interior styling eliminates buttons with much, much more technology than before
    - Seats are lower, doors open wider and wheelbase is longer
    - Analogue tach with two seven-inch screens on either side [left for vehicle-related info, right for connectivity and new options like night vision]
    - 12-inch touchscreen in center console
    - New Porsche-branded technology called InnoDrive with the following features: "...monitors traffic in a 360-degree radius, recognizes pedestrians, masterminds active cruise control, will brake autonomously as needed, knows via satellite the difference between long corners and sharp turns, and will make the gearbox slip into coast-mode whenever appropriate. By looking far ahead through cameras and sensors, InnoDrive can not only accelerate and decelerate the car in accordance to other road users but also initiate up- and downshifts. Its main claim to fame is the ability to drive semi-autonomously. Up to 7 mph, there is no need at all for the driver to interfere. Up to 37 mph, the driver has a leisurely 45 seconds to respond. At higher speed, the driver must grab the wheel within 15 seconds."

    All in all, very exciting stuff and it's clear that the new Panamera is going to dramatically up Porsche's game with regards to design and technology. Don't know how this V6 S thing is going to work itself out, however...

    rulesdontapply


    --

    2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
    2012 Porsche Cayenne S [gone but never forgotten]


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    sounds very promising, believe still 4 seaters.... 

    Hope to see a refresh of interior design. 


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    What I can see Tesla moved conventional factories to dive into future much faster than they should if there is no Tesla. I can see there are some nice bits & bobs in new Panamera, but if they dont make radical changes soon, they will became automotive dinosaurs just like Nokia in tech world.


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Cannot believe they would stick with 4 seats, huge mistake...


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    Cannot believe they would stick with 4 seats, huge mistake...

    Maybe four seats in the sedan and five for the Sport Turismo? I think the bigger mistake would be the repeated placement of a V6 in the S models. Turbocharged or not [and seeing that this engine is loosely related to Audi's new turbo V6], most customers paying the absurd prices that Porsche will inevitably charge to step up to the S models will most likely be put off by the lack of a V8. The current S cars have tanked, from what I've heard and read;  everyone I know would rather destroy their budgets and get a GTS/Turbo or just potter around with a base V6.

    rulesdontapply


    --

    2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
    2012 Porsche Cayenne S [gone but never forgotten]


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    I love my Panamera with the 4 seats, Would not buy the Panamera if it would be a "plain" 5 seater. Luckily we all differ otherwise all cars would be the same. The V8 item is a lost battle CO2 restrictions and taxes laws in Europe will lead to a slow fade out of the V8's. As much as I hate it as well.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Finally, a picture, which give good idea how new tail lights will look like. And I find it very promising… 1464158050173Untitled-1.jpg


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    rulesdontapply:

    A few articles of first rides with journalists riding along as passengers came out today. A few key common points:

    - Codename G2
    - Debut at the Paris Motor Show
    - Five models confirmed, including a petrol hybrid and a diesel hybrid
    - Three models specifically mentioned are a 4S Diesel with 422 horsepower out of a V8 engine, a 440-horsepower 3.0L V6 for the petrol 4S and Porsche's new 4.0L V8 for the Turbo/Turbo S with 550 horsepower for the Turbo [600 rumored for Turbo S]
    - Exterior styling tremendously improved
    - Interior styling eliminates buttons with much, much more technology than before
    - Seats are lower, doors open wider and wheelbase is longer
    - Analogue tach with two seven-inch screens on either side [left for vehicle-related info, right for connectivity and new options like night vision]
    - 12-inch touchscreen in center console
    - New Porsche-branded technology called InnoDrive with the following features: "...monitors traffic in a 360-degree radius, recognizes pedestrians, masterminds active cruise control, will brake autonomously as needed, knows via satellite the difference between long corners and sharp turns, and will make the gearbox slip into coast-mode whenever appropriate. By looking far ahead through cameras and sensors, InnoDrive can not only accelerate and decelerate the car in accordance to other road users but also initiate up- and downshifts. Its main claim to fame is the ability to drive semi-autonomously. Up to 7 mph, there is no need at all for the driver to interfere. Up to 37 mph, the driver has a leisurely 45 seconds to respond. At higher speed, the driver must grab the wheel within 15 seconds."

    All in all, very exciting stuff and it's clear that the new Panamera is going to dramatically up Porsche's game with regards to design and technology. Don't know how this V6 S thing is going to work itself out, however...

    rulesdontapply

    Not really the stuff I was hoping to hear. Instead of impressive engine, chassis and gearbox innovation - the substance of any automobile, they are focusing on the autonomous driving fad just to satisfy their marketing departments. 

    With 550hp the Turbo will be badly spanked by every other upcoming super-sedan - from the E63 with 612hp to the next 600+ hp M5. 

    I personally wouldn't want to be seen in a V6 Panamera. It screams "I want to be seen in a Porsche but I can't afford the good one". Because we all know that the Panamera is neither the most comfortable nor the most practical sedan.Once you go bellow 500hp this car is pointless.

    It's getting harder and harder to find honest and purposeful cars in the Porsche range. And when occasionally they make one it's usually hard to get it and you have to play games with your dealer...


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    I really do not understand the 4 dot braking lights on Porsches, please change mail



    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    New interior photo.

    pana.jpg


    --
    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Meh. Definitely not as nice as the Sport Turismo interior.


     
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