Crown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StdN8oeV5KM

Here's quite a wild ride, GT2 RS vs. Performante. Not saying I approve the way they negotiate traffic, but a good watch from the safety of your couch.

1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport

Whoopsy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-OoSWhIukM

 

And the GT2RS sets another lap record. 

Road America!  Must be from last week Friday as it snowed over the weekend and then switched to rain.  It has rained ever since.  

About a decade ago, I had the opportunity to talk with one of the early investors in Road America.  This guy also had owned Alfa-Romeo B.A.T. 5 until 1987, when he sold it for too small a sum.  He had purchased this rare and classic car from his old friend Wacky Arnolt, of Arnolt MG fame about thirty years earlier.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnolt

Porker:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StdN8oeV5KM

Here's quite a wild ride, GT2 RS vs. Performante. Not saying I approve the way they negotiate traffic, but a good watch from the safety of your couch.

Agreed, too aggressive for the usual track fun, could have gone wrong... Fun video though.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

How hot is your oil running?  I'm getting 225-228F repeated accelerations 100-140, even when it's 40F outside....

Thanks guys

watt:

How hot is your oil running?  I'm getting 225-228F repeated accelerations 100-140, even when it's 40F outside....

Thanks guys

Yes, the GT2RS runs the oil hotter than anything I have seen. And that's normal.

Why Are So Many People Selling Their Porsche 911 GT2 RS?

https://apple.news/AqHafCUsaQm662L7BWwswDg

One in 20 of all GT2RS sold in the USA are currently for sale... Plus another 15 new ones sitting at the dealers...

Carbuzz don't have the most accurate stuff.

They claimed 1000 in the world, the truth is closer to 2800

But 1000 is closer to the USA numbers. That's 5%, a lot lower than the 911R numbers already.

If one consider the practices of US Porsche dealers, then the number does not surprise anyone.

These are USA only number no? Production and sales? 5%, one in 20...

For sale on the Swiss 2nd hand market there are :

24 ,  991.2 GT3 RS

36,  991.1 GT3 RS 

15, GT2 RS 

That is for a population of 8 millions .

Speculation has created an over flood market . Porsche has been feeding it . Only now do they take a few little mesures , but still, they keep production way too high for reality . 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

There were 52 2's when Sun was looking. The non Weissach cars are sitting, and the overpriced dealer cars.  The 2019 Weissachs seem not to have Mags?, which only matters for resale.  Sun only considered the green one, and numerous black Weissachs most of which have the Strad/Scud interior.

Not really a overly large number considering how many were produced.  In the US there's lots of buyers - the NZ market is flooded as Eric mentions for Suisse, tons of 3RS and GT3s for sale.

Whoopsy:

Carbuzz don't have the most accurate stuff.

They claimed 1000 in the world, the truth is closer to 2800

But 1000 is closer to the USA numbers. That's 5%, a lot lower than the 911R numbers already.

If one consider the practices of US Porsche dealers, then the number does not surprise anyone.

 

Over 3000 is more accurate...  Actually, incl. those cars produced recently, I even heard the number 3500. 

Yes, they made too many but it is speculators fault because they demanded so many and the GT2 RS was never supposed to be a limited production car, only limited production run car. 

This is why I said that people shouldn't give up if they really want one, they will pop up at dealers eventually at some point, new or with low mileage. Not at a bargain price though.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

So on the one hand people are complaining that they are not able to get the cars, and on the other hand people are complaining Porsche built too many... Can't please everybody I guess...

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

That's more than 1 Billion € income only from GT2 RS. Do you know how many Polos you need to sell to get that number...

Joost:

So on the one hand people are complaining that they are not able to get the cars, and on the other hand people are complaining Porsche built too many... Can't please everybody I guess...

Those who say too many are usually those who are more interested in selling than driving these cars. Of course I can understand when owners say "too many, it degrades the value" but at least they have one and can enjoy it. Those who weren't able to get one (and maybe still aren't able because A. speculators are still hoping to sell these cars at a premium or B. their dealers have no allocations or cars anymore) are of course sad that they couldn't get one.

The average price of a slightly used (500-5000 km) GT2 RS in Germany, from an official(!) Porsche dealership, is around 400k EUR. In the US however, I heard that some dealers are selling similar GT2 RS at a premium of 20-50k. Not sure if true. Also there are some dealers in Germany selling GT2 RS at a premium of around 50k EUR.

The big question is though: Are they actually selling at these asking prices? There is a big difference between what dealers are asking and what customers are willing to pay or paying.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Joost:

So on the one hand people are complaining that they are not able to get the cars, and on the other hand people are complaining Porsche built too many... Can't please everybody I guess...

There are buyers and there are speculators, the second group being larger then the first and they are really responsible for distorting the real market for these cars.

RC:

Joost:

So on the one hand people are complaining that they are not able to get the cars, and on the other hand people are complaining Porsche built too many... Can't please everybody I guess...

Those who say too many are usually those who are more interested in selling than driving these cars. Of course I can understand when owners say "too many, it degrades the value" but at least they have one and can enjoy it. Those who weren't able to get one (and maybe still aren't able because A. speculators are still hoping to sell these cars at a premium or B. their dealers have no allocations or cars anymore) are of course sad that they couldn't get one.

The average price of a slightly used (500-5000 km) GT2 RS in Germany, from an official(!) Porsche dealership, is around 400k EUR. In the US however, I heard that some dealers are selling similar GT2 RS at a premium of 20-50k. Not sure if true. Also there are some dealers in Germany selling GT2 RS at a premium of around 50k EUR.

The big question is though: Are they actually selling at these asking prices? There is a big difference between what dealers are asking and what customers are willing to pay or paying.

The actual market for these cars (in US) is very close to MSRP (no miles).

We are talking real sale prices and not ridiculous asking figures some of these idiots are asking for.

There is a third group of people, which actually might be larger than both other groups: drivers just just want a good deal when factoring in the resale value. Once their perception that these values hold well is gone, they will be more likely to switch to other brands. Not everyone wants a huge wrong and such an aggressive car for the road. But they cope with it just for the money.

Don't forget that you buy these cars without test driving them. Some people probably just realize that the car is not for them.

Kobalt:

Don't forget that you buy these cars without test driving them. Some people probably just realize that the car is not for them.

You have a point here. Like Rossi...he bought the Performante without ever test-driving it. Not even a regular Huracan (as far as I know). Insane. I was so scared that he will show up at my door immediately after pickup and kill me.   Just yesterday, while driving with my son, I realized that you need to love a lot of noise in a car to appreciate a car like the Performante. Also the chassis is very stiff in Corsa mode, seats feel less comfortable when in Corsa mode, also because the seat cushion seems to be thin. The GT2 RS is in a similar ballpark, maybe not regarding the noise but still, this is not your regular Porsche 911 and it makes noises the regular 911 doesn't, no doubt about it. Also that huge torque with RWD only? Another possible issues for some, even if the traction is really good (Porsche learned from McLaren , TC setup is really good).

I still think though that many bought the GT2 RS for speculative reasons only and now they are starting to get into panic mode. 

Also, if the current stock markets situation, which I love (sorry, this is a fact, I waited a long time for this ) because at some point, I will go shopping again (I have no stocks right now, zilch), continues, many people will need the money for other stuff, so they are going to sell the cars they bought for speculative reasons.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

And a fourth group. Where the car becomes redundant.

I know I just got the GT2RS, it's in transit back to me and it hasn't even arrive yet.

As I had intended to run it more on track than the street, the fact that I will be getting a GT2RS Clubsport make the GT2RS street car redundant now. Honestly I do't know what I am going to do with it.

RC:

Kobalt:

Don't forget that you buy these cars without test driving them. Some people probably just realize that the car is not for them.

You have a point here. Like Rossi...he bought the Performante without ever test-driving it. Not even a regular Huracan (as far as I know). Insane. I was so scared that he will show up at my door immediately after pickup and kill me.   Just yesterday, while driving with my son, I realized that you need to love a lot of noise in a car to appreciate a car like the Performante. Also the chassis is very stiff in Corsa mode, seats feel less comfortable when in Corsa mode, also because the seat cushion seems to be thin. The GT2 RS is in a similar ballpark, maybe not regarding the noise but still, this is not your regular Porsche 911 and it makes noises the regular 911 doesn't, no doubt about it. Also that huge torque with RWD only? Another possible issues for some, even if the traction is really good (Porsche learned from McLaren , TC setup is really good).

I still think though that many bought the GT2 RS for speculative reasons only and now they are starting to get into panic mode. 

Also, if the current stock markets situation, which I love (sorry, this is a fact, I waited a long time for this ) because at some point, I will go shopping again (I have no stocks right now, zilch), continues, many people will need the money for other stuff, so they are going to sell the cars they bought for speculative reasons.

You are describing a lot of US dealers. They hogged the allocations and now they are stuck with the cars.

These dealers will be very sorry (if they aren't already): They still have the cars they wanted to sell at a premium and they (very likely) p.ss.d off a lot of potential customers. Clever. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

These dealers will be very sorry (if they aren't already): They still have the cars they wanted to sell at a premium and they (very likely) p.ss.d off a lot of potential customers. Clever. 

Nah they made enough of premium for the initial batch already. USA has a lot of celebrities that don't care about premiums they paid, they just want the latest and greatest non matter the price.

But yes they do pissed off a shit load of customers, who in turn blame Porsche for not making enough cars. 

Many here are from the USA and they mostly do not like dealing with their dealers one bit.

Whoopsy:

Honestly I do't know what I am going to do with it.

Give it to me!   I'm still missing mine a bit  ;-)

Whoopsy:

RC:

These dealers will be very sorry (if they aren't already): They still have the cars they wanted to sell at a premium and they (very likely) p.ss.d off a lot of potential customers. Clever. 

 

Nah they made enough of premium for the initial batch already. USA has a lot of celebrities that don't care about premiums they paid, they just want the latest and greatest non matter the price.

But yes they do pissed off a shit load of customers, who in turn blame Porsche for not making enough cars. 

Many here are from the USA and they mostly do not like dealing with their dealers one bit.

 

So maybe Porsche started to listen?  The question is: Will Porsche care more about customers or dealers?

The next couple of years won't be easy for Porsche, very uncertain times, will be very interesting.

I wonder how Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati and McLaren will handle the changes because at some point, they will need to adapt. I kind of have the feeling that these changes, some of them will be forced upon these smaller manufacturers, could break "someone's" neck sooner or later. It is just a matter of time.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Whoopsy:

And a fourth group. Where the car becomes redundant.

I know I just got the GT2RS, it's in transit back to me and it hasn't even arrive yet.

As I had intended to run it more on track than the street, the fact that I will be getting a GT2RS Clubsport make the GT2RS street car redundant now. Honestly I do't know what I am going to do with it.

 

 

Not too disappointed not to be able to get the 935 ? I would of loved you to have it . I droole over it !

Gt2 RS + clubsport does not make sense , unless you take the wing of the Gt2 , put confort seats, put the suspensions + set up of the R  , take the gig front lip off , paint it all in black and make it your DD 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

Whoopsy:

And a fourth group. Where the car becomes redundant.

I know I just got the GT2RS, it's in transit back to me and it hasn't even arrive yet.

As I had intended to run it more on track than the street, the fact that I will be getting a GT2RS Clubsport make the GT2RS street car redundant now. Honestly I do't know what I am going to do with it.

 

 

Not too disappointed not to be able to get the 935 ? I would of loved you to have it . I droole over it !

Gt2 RS + clubsport does not make sense , unless you take the wing of the Gt2 , put confort seats, put the suspensions + set up of the R  , take the gig front lip off , paint it all in black and make it your DD 

I am lying if I say I am not disappointed.

I had wanted to get both, the 935 and the GT2RS Clubsport. That would have been the perfect scenario.

But the truth is, I had always wanted the GT2RS Clubsport since I saw it last May at Weissach, I told Walliser I want one. So in a way, I am actually satisfied. Weird isn't it. The 935 was just a surprise at Rennsport.

I didn't think about having both the GT2RS and GT2RS Clubsport scenario last May as I was lusting over the Clubsport, and they are only making 200, so I didn't quite think I would get one.

Kobalt:

Whoopsy:

Honestly I do't know what I am going to do with it.

 

Give it to me!   I'm still missing mine a bit  ;-)

Hehe, it will be a fine weapon to stay in front of trakcar all day at tracks 

I never care about resale value when I purchase a car.. And honestly, I don't care about the production number either. I've always wished that everyone who wants a production car and can afford it can get it without the hassle of begging around and or paying a premium!

Heard that in Eu are less than 1000 Gt2Rs, mainly due to registration befor september 18. Means on the otherhand a lot Gt2 Rs for the rest of the world.

Maybe some one here has the exact number, would be interesting to know