Crown

Whoopsy:

Mithras:

Whoopsy:

Porsche has logged over 6 million km of testing mileage on the Taycan. And another 10 million km on simulator.

They also tested the car from -35 to +50 degree Celsius. 

Think Tesla tested theirs even a 1/4 of that amount?

 

No you're right, they've sold almost 400,000 cars but have never done any testing or especially any simulations (they're not tech savvy enough for that...). And unlike every other car company they've never tested through temp ranges and inclement weather. 

They've also sold almost 400,000 cars, all of which upload data back to tesla. Even though the majority of sales are in the last two years let's say that each car on average has 10,000 miles on it. That's 4 BILLION miles of data. Does porsche or anyone else have even a 1/4 of that amount? 

 

 

Difference being, Porsche tested the car first before selling them to customers, Tesla is using the paying customers as guinea pigs.

Since Tesla is leading the way for data collection forefront, Perhaps Porsche will be doing the same with the Taycan? 

There are things on the fly over the air update can fix, but there are things about hardware that it' can't be fixed. Hence why pre production testing is crucial.

Right now, Tesla KNOWS their battery can't handle high drain for extend period of time, as someone here have said it, their Tesla goes into semi-limp mode after a while on the autobahn. That's a hardware design flaw that over the air update cannot  correct. 

 

 

A car in private service has an infinitely easier life than an automaker's test car fleet undergoing testing and final certification.  A few thousand miles of testing on the Nürburgring is the equivalent of a hundred thousand miles, if not more, on the public streets.  What else isn't mentioned with the miles driven analogy is the amount of bench testing that takes place during a typical vehicle's development.  Components and subsystems are rigorously tested to failure and beyond.  I have yet to see Tesla illustrate even the a rudimentary testing protocol that Porsche, for example, used in the 1960s and 70s.  

On a similar note, I remain incredulous of Telsa's new claims that its cars are of such high quality that annual service intervals are no longer required.  This decision comes after Tesla announced the closing, then maybe not, of its retail network to lower costs.  Reducing maintenance intervals also reduces the level of investment in dedicated service centers, again effectively lowering Tesla's expenditures, but at what cost?  

Whoopsy:

Mithras:

Whoopsy:

Porsche has logged over 6 million km of testing mileage on the Taycan. And another 10 million km on simulator.

They also tested the car from -35 to +50 degree Celsius. 

Think Tesla tested theirs even a 1/4 of that amount?

 

No you're right, they've sold almost 400,000 cars but have never done any testing or especially any simulations (they're not tech savvy enough for that...). And unlike every other car company they've never tested through temp ranges and inclement weather. 

They've also sold almost 400,000 cars, all of which upload data back to tesla. Even though the majority of sales are in the last two years let's say that each car on average has 10,000 miles on it. That's 4 BILLION miles of data. Does porsche or anyone else have even a 1/4 of that amount? 

 

 

Difference being, Porsche tested the car first before selling them to customers, Tesla is using the paying customers as guinea pigs.

Since Tesla is leading the way for data collection forefront, Perhaps Porsche will be doing the same with the Taycan? 

There are things on the fly over the air update can fix, but there are things about hardware that it' can't be fixed. Hence why pre production testing is crucial.

Right now, Tesla KNOWS their battery can't handle high drain for extend period of time, as someone here have said it, their Tesla goes into semi-limp mode after a while on the autobahn. That's a hardware design flaw that over the air update cannot  correct. 

 

 

At the end of the day it's physics and there is no way to cheat. Using high currents for a long time creates excessive heat that the car has to handle - in a way it's like in ICEs. You can add more cooling which will make the car less efficient or you limit the power for some time to avoid overheating, or you limit the max current, or .... It's a tradeoff that the OEM has to make for a certain model because there is no perfect design. In the case of Tesla it is the "limit power" solution (which last a couple of minutes), and I think that this is a good compromise, since not a lot of customers even have the chance to drive the car 200+ km/h for a longer time.  

I fully agree with the comments regarding testing. Some of the flaws in Tesla cars are more than irritating. 

Actually it is chemistry since batteries operate on the principle of reversible chemical processes to effectively store energy in the form of electricity.  Otherwise, one agrees with what you have written.  

Returning to Tesla, it is amazing that few have made mention that, to gain in efficiency, it has moved away from its namesake’s motor design-AC induction motor-to one permanently energized with permanent magnets.  Tesla’s current battery pack fabrication of using thousands of relatively low cost cylindrical cells interconnected will eventually be replaced by a system using larger prismatic or pouch cells to lower manufacturing costs and improve cooling.   

CGX car nut:

Actually it is chemistry since batteries operate on the principle of reversible chemical processes to effectively store energy in the form of electricity.  Otherwise, one agrees with what you have written.  

Returning to Tesla, it is amazing that few have made mention that, to gain in efficiency, it has moved away from its namesake’s motor design-AC induction motor-to one permanently energized with permanent magnets.  Tesla’s current battery pack fabrication of using thousands of relatively low cost cylindrical cells interconnected will eventually be replaced by a system using larger prismatic or pouch cells to lower manufacturing costs and improve cooling.   

Thanks you   The "excessive heat" I was referring to affects battery chemistry in a negative way; same as "excessive cold". 

Electric cars inherently needing less maintenance than a ICE car.

There is no engine oil to change, as in Tesla's case no transmission oil either. They do still have differential fluids maintenance and lubrication of all joints. WIth modern lubricants those change intervals can be stretched for sure.

And yes, battery life and power is a manufacturer choice for sure. It's what they feel their target audience would want.

Tesla was the first to market, they have no idea what people want in the first place, I believe they had tuned their cars for long battery life, the great acceleration was just a byproduct of electric motor power delivery.

And then people found out that glorified golf carts really have some zing to them, it's fun. But because of how the system is designed, the fun mode only lasted so long before the computer to shut it down in order to protect the components,

Details are still not out, it would be interesting to see how Porsche tune their system. 

As seen in Formula E, if one wanted to, battery packs can be tuned to be in a constantly high drain situation, But the range will be limited.

But then again, it's like ICE. cars, performance vs range. A Chiron empties it's gas tank in 8 minutes flat out, but it could last quite bit longer if someone show restrains. 

I do have faith inn Porsche though, they are experts by now dealing with high drain scenarios, the hybrid system in the 918 and the 919 are all setup to be a high drain/high recharge rate circuits.

Good discussion guys—thanks.  

100% electrification planned at Porsche in latest 20 years from now... This is the future.  This includes the 911 and the GT cars. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

SciFrog, Cross Turismo It’s not like a station wagon. It’s smaller, and more compact, and is aimed at the younger outdoor adventure crowd. Sort of like a performance Subaru Outback...

New video from auto motor und sport.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/fahrbericht/porsche-taycan-2020/

This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Its show a "bit" of the interior. Apparently the "braun stick" (which i like by the way) is the future!

This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

In Germany, there is a huge headline today that electricity cost has never been as high as now.

One kWh costs 30 Euro Cents in Germany (for comparison: in the US, it is basically only 1/3 of that amount).

To give you a little hint: Aprox. 55% of this price are taxes! So there is definitely some leeway here to offer subventions for electric mobility and electrification. The question is: How badly does the government need this money.

Btw: I paid 3500 EUR just for electricity for my home last year. Ouch.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

In Germany, there is a huge headline today that electricity cost has never been as high as now.

One kWh costs 30 Euro Cents in Germany (for comparison: in the US, it is basically only 1/3 of that amount).

To give you a little hint: Aprox. 55% of this price are taxes! So there is definitely some leeway here to offer subventions for electric mobility and electrification. The question is: How badly does the government need this money.

Btw: I paid 3500 EUR just for electricity for my home last year. Ouch.

Does the price of kwh in Germany is the same or it changes according to power contracted. Portugal is 0.27 cents to a 6.9 kva contract.

--

This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

After watching the full video. Here´s what i found from the interior!

1 - Ignition appears to be a on/off buton

2 - Lights Cluster on Instrument Panel with Capacitive buttons (Pretty much like the Cross Turismo Concept)

3 - Some kind of small intrument panel with warning lights mounted on the steering columm

4 - Braun Shifter kust like the 992

5 - Retro Center Dash just like the 992

6 - The 2nd touch interface (air con?) is smaller than i was expecting. I was expecting the hurracan evo screen.

--

This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Made me smile today (emphasis on 'today'): https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2019/company/porsche-qrest-crest-qr-code-digital-taycan-17352.html

April fool

Paulo_Rangel_Melo:

After watching the full video. Here´s what i found from the interior!

1 - Ignition appears to be a on/off buton

2 - Lights Cluster on Instrument Panel with Capacitive buttons (Pretty much like the Cross Turismo Concept)

3 - Some kind of small intrument panel with warning lights mounted on the steering columm

4 - Braun Shifter kust like the 992

5 - Retro Center Dash just like the 992

6 - The 2nd touch interface (air con?) is smaller than i was expecting. I was expecting the hurracan evo screen.

--

 

This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

The small panel on the steering wheel is probably a driver awareness sensor to determine if a driver is attentive during semi-autonomous driving mode usage.  

DuckieRS:

Made me smile today (emphasis on 'today'): https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2019/company/porsche-qrest-crest-qr-code-digital-taycan-17352.html

They got me

Enzo II:

DuckieRS:

Made me smile today (emphasis on 'today'): https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2019/company/porsche-qrest-crest-qr-code-digital-taycan-17352.html

They got me

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

For you who are interested in Taycan, here are some fresh news direct from inside:

Taycan trubo 600 hp

Taycan turbo s 670 hp

The two back seats have at least the same size as a MB S-class coupé.

Here original words in German, copied from WhatsApp:

Also gerade nochmal den Taycan 
Angeschaut
Als Turbo 
XXXX das ist dein auto ....... 

--

AM

ALDO:

For you who are interested in Taycan, here are some fresh news direct from inside:

Taycan trubo 600 hp

Taycan turbo s 670 hp

The two back seats have at least the same size as a MB S-class coupé.

 

Thank you. Will there be a 3 seat option? Prices?

here is the answer, so 3 seats doesn`t make sense

[14:09, 5.4.2019] XXXXX: Auto ist schon generell kleiner    - car is in general smaller (the S-class cabrio)
[14:09, 5.4.2019] XXXXX: Aber da kein Cabrio, ähnlich hinten innen - the size in the backseats are like S-class cabrio/coupé
[14:09, 5.4.2019] XXXXX: Vorne ist die s klasse schon großer - fron row  S-class is larger

AM

I hope they don't call it turbo, that would be ridiculous

Back seats the same size as S coupé would be way too small in my view but I am sure they will be bigger, i.e. more leg room

Josef:

I am sure they will be bigger, i.e. more leg room

AM

crayphile:

ALDO:

For you who are interested in Taycan, here are some fresh news direct from inside:

Taycan trubo 600 hp

Taycan turbo s 670 hp

The two back seats have at least the same size as a MB S-class coupé.

 

Thank you. Will there be a 3 seat option? Prices?

"turbo" will be about 150k Euro in Germany.

Josef:

I hope they don't call it turbo, that would be ridiculous

Back seats the same size as S coupé would be way too small in my view but I am sure they will be bigger, i.e. more leg room

The Taycan won't be big - but will be quite agile... For those who are willing to spend the money the Taycan will clearly be the best EV car money can buy today 

The best EV with the highest price tag with a Porsche badge, makes sense. So $130k for a Taycan “turbo” with no options?

But there are still a lot of unknowns. Range for a sport tuned EV? Look at the fiasco of the E-Tron. Who is this car for? Because it is too small for families, and too big to replace a 911 which is getting fatter itself. It is basically a fun daily driver for older (and rich) people, or maybe a green sporty car for German businessmen?

You sound like those that wanna argue that 3 series coupe is better than a 911 because its cheaper, got more range, and has more seats  ...

You don't have to know too much to already know that the Taycan will be the best EV "money can buy today" because it wont be even close, which is word for word what Markus just said. You can argue about number of seats and pricetag for a particular case, but that is besides the point.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

You sound like those that wanna argue that 3 series coupe is better than a 911 because its cheaper, got more range, and has more seats  ...

You don't have to know too much to already know that the Taycan will be the best EV "money can buy today" because it wont be even close, which is word for word what Markus just said. You can argue about number of seats and pricetag for a particular case, but that is besides the point.

I think he buys/gets his cars for other reasons than we do... 

I chose the Huracan Performante because of it's emotional involvement.

I chose the E63 S because it is in my opinion the most fun family car on the market (besides the Urus maybe but it is in a different price range)...the word fun suggests...again...that I am looking for an emotional involvement.

Some people don't care about the classic emotional involvement in a car, some people are looking for new excitements, like massive straight line performance, best looks, maybe even the best cost/value ratio and in SciFrog's case...the novelty factor of a modern EV, basically a gadget on four wheels. I get it, I really do but I am a car guy, I have fuel in my blood and this means I don't care about many of the other reasons why someone would get a specific car. Nothing counts more to me than the classic emotional involvement, meaning handling and especially the sound of the engine/exhaust/gear changes/etc.. 

I said it before: If I could afford it, I would have an EV like the Tesla S or whatever as well, no doubt. I am not demonizing EVs, they are interesting pieces of technology and yes, maybe even the future of mobility on this planet. 

This doesn't mean I have to do what others do, I choose the car(s) I like best for my current purposes and state of mind. Right now I feel that I want something fun and exotic. In five years, maybe I am going to drive something more comfortable and quiet, I don't know.

Carlos, fact is: Cars like yours or my upcoming Lamborghini are a dying breed. So I highly recommend to anyone with fuel in their blood to use this chance and enjoy these dying dinosaurs before they actually get forbidden...or are too expensive to use anymore. They will disappear at some point and with new and more strict restrictions (emissions, sound emissions) in the near future, I wouldn't be surprised if in 15-20 years (maybe even earlier), such cars like ours will be banned from public roads, especially from populated city areas. Enjoy these cars while you can...you will regret not doing it. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

MKSGR:

crayphile:

ALDO:

For you who are interested in Taycan, here are some fresh news direct from inside:

Taycan trubo 600 hp

Taycan turbo s 670 hp

The two back seats have at least the same size as a MB S-class coupé.

 

Thank you. Will there be a 3 seat option? Prices?

"turbo" will be about 150k Euro in Germany.

where do you have this price tag? It is a lot of money. But it is Porsche, they know how to milk.

AM

ALDO:

Josef:

I am sure they will be bigger, i.e. more leg room

 

Ok, maybe not Let's wait en see. I just think the leg room in the S Coupé is minimal.