Crown

Pietrostone:

Finally in my garage 

 

 

This car in bright yellow in combination with the black rims looks astonishingly modern.

Many congrats on your new ride, Pietrostone.

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

congrats...good colour choice

With so many choices available for wonderful cars these days—Mercedes, BMW, Ferrari, etc. etc., it’s easy for someone to always be a bit dissatisfied with one choice. And even within a specific manufacturer—Porsche for example—there are so many variations that can tempt the buyer.  Some brands realize this “buyer confusion” and are offering short term leases of 6 months so customers can try all sorts of options without committing to one product that soon may become boring.  Like a 6 month rental car. 

My son and I recently  rented a new 718 Boxster to drive for two days back-and-forth from the Sebring races. It was perfect for that Florida springtime experience.  Open air, relatively inexpensive, quick steering, lots of thumbs ups from racing fans  Would I buy a Boxster? No. Did I enjoy the short term experience?  Absolutely.

The sad part is that with all the models and variations, there is not a single Porsche that I would want in my garage today after over 20 years of continuous Porsche ownership.

SciFrog:

The sad part is that with all the models and variations, there is not a single Porsche that I would want in my garage today after over 20 years of continuous Porsche ownership.

Hard to understand for me - if you even buy Tesla 

SciFrog, guess I am different.  I love my current Panamera Turbo, but when lease matures in a year, I am extremely excited about, in order of preference:  GT3 Touring, 992GTS, Taycan Turbo, Cross Turismo, maybe even the Cayenne Turbo Coupe.  Wish I could I could afford two, but one of these is enough to satisfy my soul...

Bravo!  Wonderful photos! 

Fantastic pics, thanks for sharing.  And congrats on the new car 

SciFrog:

The sad part is that with all the models and variations, there is not a single Porsche that I would want in my garage today after over 20 years of continuous Porsche ownership.

To be fair, this is different, I think in your case the reason is that you have moved more away from Porsche than Porsche moving away from from its core, you said yourself the only Porsche that would attract you now would be a cabrio version of a GT3 with 4 seats, Porsche never made a car like that, and what got you most exited lately is an EV people mover Model 3 delivery. Which is neither good nor bad, it is simply the fact the people's tastes, preferences and needs change over time, but not an example that Porsche changed.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Porsche has changed, they used to be some good values, now it is just overpriced. $170k for a 992 GTS convertible without going crazy in options. No thank you. $170k for a Cayenne TTS? RRS Autobiography for $100k is much better (for my needs). $200k for a Panamera TTS or a low spec 992 Turbo S convertible? Crazy prices, E63, M5 are getting too good, as are Lambo and McLaren (Ferrari is out of the game since you cannot buy one either).

GT3 touring? They are not for sale from the dealer and are manual and only 2 seats. Taycan? Too small and performance already obsolete and no announced realistic price. Macan has creeped up in price any by now engines are underpowered, let alone the fact that they are now ugly and infotainment are obsolete (no LCD dash).

Porsche is seriously getting caught up by the competition while raising dramatically their prices. Just look in this board how many people have switched to the dark side... There is no denying it unless you are blindfolded.

The only Porsche that ticks the boxes is the Singer Targa...

For reference:

California, 2018 GTS, 3 year lease.  $140,000 agreed upon value.  5K down.  Monthly payment avec taxes= $2,400.

$2,400x36=$86,400 

Pietrostone:

Beautifull photos. Thanks . And congrats on the car. Love that 964 ! 

Please let us know about the driving experience and inside quality feel. When I touched the gear shifter ( Braun ) in an exposed car at the Geneva show it felt badly finished , as it was vobeling. 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

Pietrostone:

The 964 looks very special even in 2019. In 1989 it was a supercar.

Porsche have tried to freshen up the 991 look but they haven't come up with something arresting. A lost opportunity IMO, given the current competition.

PAG have also increased the price substantially so when essential dynamic features like RWS and Sport Chrono Paket, Sport exhaust, PDCC are not included in the inflated standard price of their  most celebrated sportscar, IMO Porsche are thieving their customers. Look at the value something like the BMW M850i, also selling at 125.000 EUR, represents and compare its price/equipment relationship  to the 992. Ah yes, but Porsche are higher than BMW in the automobile hierarchy, so they can charge much more! I doubt this is true today, given than the vast majority of new Porsche cars sold are 2.0 liter Macan SUVs..

--

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

bvineyards:

For reference:

California, 2018 GTS, 3 year lease.  $140,000 agreed upon value.  5K down.  Monthly payment avec taxes= $2,400.

$2,400x36=$86,400 

That’s an expensive car rental.

There is nothing stronger than gentleness.

One can legitimately argue that Porsche prices are high versus other manufacturers.  One can also legitimately argue that Porsche is worth it.   A matter of personal opinion and preference.  For me, I look at the base price of my 2001 Turbo ($109K) and compare ti to base price of a 2019 992 S ($114K), and conclude that for only $5K more, I can get a car that is much faster, much safer, much more modern in every respect,  That's my view, others may certainly differ.  

SciFrog:

Porsche has changed, they used to be some good values, now it is just overpriced. $170k for a 992 GTS convertible without going crazy in options. No thank you. $170k for a Cayenne TTS? RRS Autobiography for $100k is much better (for my needs). $200k for a Panamera TTS or a low spec 992 Turbo S convertible? Crazy prices, E63, M5 are getting too good, as are Lambo and McLaren (Ferrari is out of the game since you cannot buy one either).

GT3 touring? They are not for sale from the dealer and are manual and only 2 seats. Taycan? Too small and performance already obsolete and no announced realistic price. Macan has creeped up in price any by now engines are underpowered, let alone the fact that they are now ugly and infotainment are obsolete (no LCD dash).

Porsche is seriously getting caught up by the competition while raising dramatically their prices. Just look in this board how many people have switched to the dark side... There is no denying it unless you are blindfolded.

The only Porsche that ticks the boxes is the Singer Targa...

You are correct, Numbers don't lie. 

Porsche sold 4% more cars in 2018 yet profit went up 10%. 

Whoopsy,  does this take cost savings, or other financial factors into account?

Wonderbar:

Whoopsy,  does this take cost savings, or other financial factors into account?

It's probably increased margins from all the GT cars.

nberry:

bvineyards:

For reference:

California, 2018 GTS, 3 year lease.  $140,000 agreed upon value.  5K down.  Monthly payment avec taxes= $2,400.

$2,400x36=$86,400 

That’s an expensive car rental.

Nick, I agree.  I think there is something seriously wrong with me.

Wonderbar:

Seriously guys, in your views is there anything Porsche can do right? You don’t like the 992, you don’t like the Cayenne, you don’t like the new coupe, you don’t like the Taycan, you don’t like the Macan, you don’t like cost, you don’t like the design, now you don’t like the direction of the GT program.   Guess what you really like is to bash Porsche. 

The problem is not Porsche, the problem is the competition: They do same or better. 

Porsche cars have become too expensive for what they offer, they do not excel in design and even worse, they do not excel in performance. Only exception are the GT models but even here, the competition has gotten stronger. Lamborghini implemented a new strategy (Performante, SVJ, now the new Evo), making their cars not only look very good but also fast on the track. This will improve further along the way. McLaren has monster straight line performance and very exotic and raw looking cars, some with hyper car performance for Porsche supercar money. Ferrari also jumped the power game, the F8 Tributo may not be the prettiest but it will certainly be very fast, entering hyper car performance territory for Porsche supercar money. Same goes to SUVs, Porsche's new main pillar: The Range Rover SVR models, the Urus, the Mercedes AMG models like GLC63 S, the Jaguar F-Pace SVR, Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk, BMW X5M, BMW X3/4M, Audi RSQ8 (soon to be announced)...with the exception of the Urus, they all basically cost less than Porsche's top Cayenne model. 

Nobody really wants to bash Porsche but let's face it: They have lost their game lately, with the exception of the GT models. 

Look at me: Diehard Porsche fan and I have no more Porsche in my garage.  Trust me, I'm not the only one.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

And people who have driven Porsche’s for 40 years and can afford it don’t have a chance to buy a gt car. Been waiting for 10+ years. Loyalty or enthusiasm mean nothing. 

This is one of the things that bother me the most,  GT cars going to flippers or poseurs when there are guys like you or Dave in line...

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

The problem of Porsche prices is actually even worse than just looking at the explosion in MSRP. The resale values have not followed. The used car market tells you everything you need to know about how overpriced certain cars are. For example I lost only $30k on my 911 C4C over 4 years, but I lost $90k on the Cayenne TTS over the same time frame. You can easily loose $100k on a 911 TTS or high specced Panamera. And that is on top of very expensive maintenance especially for brakes and tires (I spent $18k in 4 years on the Cayenne TTS not counting normal services). The value proposition of the past has just evaporated expect for GT cars (but that’s because you cannot easily buy one).

Also like RC mentioned Porsche is getting caught up by the competition on performance but also interior quality. The new interior of the 992 for example is nothing to write about in 2019, and it will stick for the next 7 years, ouch... Plus a lot of new tech is being introduced but since the cars are not updatable, people hesitate to spend huge sums of money. And it will only get worse as we get closer to level 4 autonomous driving.

Carlos from Spain:

This is one of the things that bother me the most,  GT cars going to flippers or poseurs when there are guys like you or Dave in line...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

Carlos from Spain:

This is one of the things that bother me the most,  GT cars going to flippers or poseurs when there are guys like you or Dave in line...

The flipper claim is exaggerated. Not to many are being flipped.

The poseur allegation depends on how you define one. To some if the car isn’t tracked, the owner is a poseur. This definition I find born out of jealousy. It would make Carlos, myself,Crayfile,Christian and others on this site poseurs. 

Good luck with that.

There is nothing stronger than gentleness.

Nick, I tracked my cars for over 25 years...I just don't see the point anymore to be every weekend on the track. I would never call someone who doesn't track his car a poseur but I would call those poseurs who get such cars only to make some bullshit donuts and red light "drag racing" during car meets.  Last year's cars and coffee meet was full of such people, it just is pathetic and embarrassing, throwing a shady light on all those who enjoy driving these cars. Revving at the stop light like a nut job...poseur. Driving in first gear at 6000 or more rpm in a 30 kph zone downtown, just to show off to the cafe crowd sitting at tables along the street...poseur. Flippers aren't poseurs, they are even worse, they don't care at all about these cars. Poseurs at least drive the cars, even if they give drivers of such cars often a bad reputation.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

I was supposed to drive the 992 Carrera S this Wednesday but I am swamped with work, no time, sorry guys.

Will deliver a proper driving report early/mid May (can't get one again until then...), sorry again.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

Nick, I tracked my cars for over 25 years...I just don't see the point anymore to be every weekend on the track. I would never call someone who doesn't track his car a poseur but I would call those poseurs who get such cars only to make some bullshit donuts and red light "drag racing" during car meets.  Last year's cars and coffee meet was full of such people, it just is pathetic and embarrassing, throwing a shady light on all those who enjoy driving these cars. Revving at the stop light like a nut job...poseur. Driving in first gear at 6000 or more rpm in a 30 kph zone downtown, just to show off to the cafe crowd sitting at tables along the street...poseur. Flippers aren't poseurs, they are even worse, they don't care at all about these cars. Poseurs at least drive the cars, even if they give drivers of such cars often a bad reputation.

Christian, as I have. Going around in circles trying to gain a second while abusing the car no longer appeals to me. The poseur moniker is used to express anger by those unable to get the car they want.

There is nothing stronger than gentleness.

I never blame the guys who get them, even if flipping. I squarely blame Porsche and dealers like my local dealer. New Porschs are just a total rip-off unless you get a gt car and then only because they are fun to drive and track ready - to an extent. Actually they are just heavy duty for the street. 

Once guys like me turn their backs on the used cars as well - like the 991 - depreciation will really increase to Porsche SUV levels. 👎