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ben, lj said:
I leave my PSM on and drive pretty close to it most of the time. It will generally come on a few times during each of these drives. IOW, I'd say I'm probably in the 8-9/10+ range. I'd estimate the drive with the CGT (being someone elses and being unfamiliar with it) at no more than 7/10.
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MAVERICK said:Quote:
ben, lj said:
I leave my PSM on and drive pretty close to it most of the time. It will generally come on a few times during each of these drives. IOW, I'd say I'm probably in the 8-9/10+ range. I'd estimate the drive with the CGT (being someone elses and being unfamiliar with it) at no more than 7/10.
Just be careful with the Stradale, Ben. I have read it's a handful at the limit, but not as bad as the man-eating CGT.
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ben, lj said:
RC, there sure were a lot of (incorrect) assumptions in that last post along with an attitude which luckily I've not been on the other end of previously.
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ben, lj said:
"I think that PAG may have made a mistake in not selecting its CGT customers. Ferrari does this for the wrong snobish reasons, PAG should do it for the right reason of matching customers skills/expectations w/ the car."
When you're making 399 examples as Ferrari did, you can do that. However, when you make 1500, you have to sell to anyone willing and able to pay you $500K.
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ben, lj said:
However, the tones of that sound are greatly diminished inside the car - to the point of completely being unimpressed when the top is on.
Sep 5, 2004 4:38:54 PM
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RC said:
To get back to the clutch: yes, it isn't easy but you get adapted to it very fast. I had no problems after trying a few times and only at the beginning, the engine stalled ONCE. Stop'n go in a Carrera GT might not be fun but have you tried a GT3 MkII or GT2 MkII?
Maybe I could give you another example (and this doesn't have to do with driver skills but driver "sensibility"): I can move my 997 Carrera S from standstill with less than 1000-1200 rpm. My wife can't do it without stalling the engine or using at least 2500 rpm. And a good friend who has the international C license and sometimes drives in his old modified M3 E36 on the track stalls my 997 if he uses less than 2000 rpm.
Some people are more "nervous", some people are calm and have a less nervous throttle and clutch foot.
Of course "nervous" drivers are sometimes less "fortunate" compared to "calm" drivers because they do more driving mistakes. Especially on the track you can analyze people pretty well and their driving style also says a lot about their psychological profile.
A good driver not only knows has goo driving skills but also knows his limitations. A good driver also tries to stay calm and analyzes driving situations like a computer with his brain, not his stomach.
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ben, lj said:
Call it unreal expectations, but I thought I was buying the supercar for the street with the way the car has been marketed. I didn't intend to pay those dollars for a limited purpose vehicle so I would have to go buy a couple others to suppliment it. There are other VERY great track cars for a fraction of those dollars if a limited purpose track vehicle had been the goal. I guess I wanted it all: a monster with bullet proof reliability that could comfortably be driven on the street.
) and of course the 997 Carrera S provides a lot of fun but not even close to good...well, you know what I mean. Even if the Challenge Stradale would be 3 seconds faster, the Nordschleife is a track which is more than 20 km long. So for half the price, the 997 Carrera S doesn't perform too bad. And I can even take my family with me or put two large Samsonites in the rear. 
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racerx said:
Hey RC, could you rustle up a few CGT owners who are happy with their purchase and who don't work for PAG?
)
Not a 911, but what do you expect for $40K? Not the fastest car out there obviously, but didn't bother me in the least.
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Justin said:
Anyway, I don't see a problem with buying what you like to drive and what makes you happy. This doesn't make Ferrari drivers pansies or whatever you want to call them.
This is actually my best excuse: language.
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RC said:
To get back to the clutch: yes, it isn't easy but you get adapted to it very fast. I had no problems after trying a few times and only at the beginning, the engine stalled ONCE. Stop'n go in a Carrera GT might not be fun but have you tried a GT3 MkII or GT2 MkII?
Maybe I could give you another example (and this doesn't have to do with driver skills but driver "sensibility"): I can move my 997 Carrera S from standstill with less than 1000-1200 rpm. My wife can't do it without stalling the engine or using at least 2500 rpm. And a good friend who has the international C license and sometimes drives in his old modified M3 E36 on the track stalls my 997 if he uses less than 2000 rpm.
Some people are more "nervous", some people are calm and have a less nervous throttle and clutch foot.
Of course "nervous" drivers are sometimes less "fortunate" compared to "calm" drivers because they do more driving mistakes. Especially on the track you can analyze people pretty well and their driving style also says a lot about their psychological profile.
A good driver not only knows has goo driving skills but also knows his limitations. A good driver also tries to stay calm and analyzes driving situations like a computer with his brain, not his stomach.
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nberry said:
... and yet European posters and Porsche seem to feel we are all crazy and nothing is wrong with it.
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nberry said:...I do not know whether European drivers are better but I do know U.S. driver know what their needs are and their limitations...
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FixedWing said:
But one question for you. Why is it such a bad thing that the acceleration times for the CGT are worse than the Enzo? Surely it is what it is. This is a competitive world. If Ferrari happens to have made a better car in the Enzo than Porsche has made in the CGT then surely they should reap the reward and that is the way it is meant to be.
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FixedWing said:
What I see is that everyone is taking this very personally. And I think that this is not a great direction for us to be going in.
Stephen
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W8MM said:
If I recall correctly, Davey Allison commented that he thought the 1974 911/RS was "an overpowered German Corvair" while being interviewed during the very first International Race of Champions. It was not meant as a compliment
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FixedWing said:
Nick, interesting that you tag this as a reply to my own post.
Is it a North America vs. Europe thing? I think we've all seen the comments of the European magazines to the clutch. Many have complained. So it isn't just a North America thing. But I do think that the North Americans are the ones being loudest in their complaints and the ones who are pointing specifically at the car as the problem.
What I see is that everyone is taking this very personally. And I think that this is not a great direction for us to be going in.
Stephen
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nberry said:
Regarding the exhaust what makes the CGT so fabulous sounding is what you hear is the engine and not necessarily the exhaust. However as Ben indicated while not in acceleration the car sound very muted and ordinary. My Ferrari has a growl while going under bridges and Ben and I commented the CGT sound whimpy unless being accelerated.
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nberry said:
I find it incredible that Porsche would loan a CGT to Jay Leno to test drive who has never owned a Porsche before while not allowing buyers who put up their hard earned money to test drive the car. My god, J. Leno did not put down any deposit for the privilege!
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nberry said:
Many of the buyers went to Leiptzig for a ride on a race track with the car being driven by a pfofessional driver. How difficult would it have been for Porsche to allow these buyers to drive the car while in Leiptzig? I suspect Porsche was well aware of the issues addressed here and chose not do run the risk of cancelled sales.
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nberry said:
Regarding the exhaust what makes the CGT so fabulous sounding is what you hear is the engine and not necessarily the exhaust. However as Ben indicated while not in acceleration the car sound very muted and ordinary. My Ferrari has a growl while going under bridges and Ben and I commented the CGT sounded whimpy unless being accelerated.
). If it does, I would love to hear it in person.
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racerx said:
I don't know Nick. I went to the store yesterday afternoon and on the way home there was a 355 next to me. I of course rolled down my window to listen and i could not believe how quiet and weak it sounded even as the driver pulled slowly away. The only ferrari sounds that i have heard that are special have been the 360 under hard acceleration and the maranello sounds pretty good at idle. Most new cars have had their exhaust tamed beyond belief including the gallardo and murci that i have heard.
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nberry said:
[The Enzo at maximum speed drives like a sport sedan at 120mph. It's by far the best car on the market in terms of aerodynamics.On a winding mountain road, its maybe too big--a Lotus Elise is best for that--but it's still fabulous.
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nberry said:
My comments were directed at you. Sometimes it becomes exasperating to us US drivers that we are not given any credit regarding knowledge and driving cars.
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