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Walter said:Quote:
eclou said:
AUM every published test so far is from cars given to the press. Press car = not consumer car. From the consumer side we have not seen any cars that match the reported acceleration times from the press.
That is not true.
Every test done in Great Britain has been done with constumer cars.
Many GT-R owners have matched or even beat the 1/4 mile times from magazine tests.
(I bet you will ignore what I just wrote and say that the GT-R is ugly and unreliable)
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Walter said:
(I bet you will ignore what I just wrote and say that the GT-R is ugly and unreliable)
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Walter said:Quote:
eclou said:
explain how they are consumer cars if the GTR is not released in the UK until 2009?
Imports?
People in Great Britain import JDM cars for years, You can find Evo IV or even Subarus 22B there.
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cannga said:
You left out:
1. To get the advertised 0-60 time acceleration time, you need to use launch control. If you use launch control, you have to turn VDC off. If you turn VDC off, warranty is voided.
2. The tranny costs US $20,000 to replace (about 25% the cost of the new car).
3. If the clutch needs replacement from wear, you need to replace the whole tranny. Cost = 20k.
4. Owners are now questioning the reliability of the tranny.
5. Problem with wheel hop.
6. Variable power delivery depending on countries and cars. Like a lottery.
7. Tires that probably will need replacement every 5000 miles.
Everything points to a heavy car (near 4000 lbs!), designed to be cheap, with not enough consideration for reliability or long term customers' satisfaction. And I agree, it's ugly beyond belief.
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eclou said:
exactly my point here. No testing was done on UK spec cars, just as the US mag tests were not done on US spec cars. All journalist tested cars were Japan spec/press cars
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Walter said:Quote:
cannga said:
You left out:
1. To get the advertised 0-60 time acceleration time, you need to use launch control. If you use launch control, you have to turn VDC off. If you turn VDC off, warranty is voided.
2. The tranny costs US $20,000 to replace (about 25% the cost of the new car).
3. If the clutch needs replacement from wear, you need to replace the whole tranny. Cost = 20k.
4. Owners are now questioning the reliability of the tranny.
5. Problem with wheel hop.
6. Variable power delivery depending on countries and cars. Like a lottery.
7. Tires that probably will need replacement every 5000 miles.
Everything points to a heavy car (near 4000 lbs!), designed to be cheap, with not enough consideration for reliability or long term customers' satisfaction. And I agree, it's ugly beyond belief.
1. I personally don't care about 0-100 times. Besides people that go to the drag strip and post some of the best times for the GT-R so far didn't had any problems. Warranty is not voided.
2. 12k?
3. 12k?
4. Stupid owners that launched the car more than 20 times in the break in period, yes. Find me another car with a similar gear box that can do that without any problems.
5. That's something no car has ever had before. Good point.
6. Even the slowest GT-R in a straight line wasn't that much slower than a GT2 on the track, it was faster than the Z06.
7. That depends on how you drive the car.
Does the Gt-R have its faults? Yes, of course. Is it anywhere near as bad as some people say it is? No, not at all.
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Walter said:Quote:
eclou said:
exactly my point here. No testing was done on UK spec cars, just as the US mag tests were not done on US spec cars. All journalist tested cars were Japan spec/press cars
Except the one that was tested by Driver's Republic. The steering wheel wasn't where it should have been to be a JDM spec car. It was probably a US spec car and it was as fast as the GT2 and LP560-4 around the track but it was slower than the Carrera S in the straight line.
No doubt, best ringer/press car ever.
How much slower do you think will the EU spec GT-R be compared to the JDM and US version?
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cannga said:
^^^ Correction; I meant to write: "That a car that is slower than a Carrera S in a straight line ends up as fast (not faster) than a GT-2 and LP560-4 around the track." Still, does that make any sense to you at all? Is there a chance you did not understand this situation correctly?
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Walter said:
No?
http://www.drivers-republic.com/
And yes, those people are bloody stupid for thinking they can abuse the car and expect that everything is covered under warranty, As I said, many owners that took their car to the drag strip didn't had any problems with car and regularly beat the claimed times from Nissan.
As for the power delivery and the drag race between the 997 S and GT-R, it's funny that nobody wonders if it wasn't the Porsche that was much faster than it should have been...
SteveD from Drivers Republic said that tire wear was even on all 4 tires and iirc he said it wasn't all that bad. Again, tire wear (just like fuel consumption) is very dependant on the driving style of the driver.
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cannga said:
If it seems I am doing a common sense check, that's because I am. I've found common sense to be the missing ingredient among many GT-R supporters clinging on to the 7:29 myth.
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AUM said:
"Experience in the sportscar world and gut feeling should reveal the truth about the GTR"
The truth is know only through independent tests. Opinions, assumptions and gut feelings of experienced sports car owners are commonplace, contradictory and useless in this debate as they lack any objective substance.
People who impose their gut feelings on others are an irrelevant nuisance.
Those who are really interested in the truth (rather than clinging to their preconceptions) will put their assumptions and opinions aside and stick to real evidence from independent tests.
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AUM said:
There are lots of independent tests of the GTR. Read the evidence presented in these tests.
It is pointless to argue about the Nissan 7.29 claim as it cannot be proved or disproved. i don't know if it is true or not. I do know the GTR has similar (sometimes faster) lap times to the GT2 in independent tests.
GTR reliability may be another issue. Time will tell. But the existing performance tests are pretty conclusive.
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AUM said:
Check the lap times:
http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_id=compare&car1=46a06c22ab41a&car2=4717b80e35715
There are ten tracks (excluding the Ring were the GTR has no independent time). The GTR wins 6 of the them and the GT2 wins 4. Two others are almost a draw. Conclusions based on these tests: GTR and GT2 are close on ten tracks. Drivers Republic reached the same conclusion after extensive testing and lapping of both cars.
Frankly as a rennteam moderator you are getting the forum a bad name.
Oct 14, 2008 12:18:17 PM
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AUM said:
Please supply test data evidence to back up your opinions and assumptions. I expect moderators to be more objective and better informed.
Oct 14, 2008 2:18:05 PM
Oct 14, 2008 2:28:39 PM
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Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
AUM said:
Please supply test data evidence to back up your opinions and assumptions. I expect moderators to be more objective and better informed.
Quit playing the mderator card, it shows lack of argumentation, and so far its been a good discussion. You should be more open to other's opinions hold not understimate the knowledge of people you don't know about.
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cannga said:
Walter,
I was hoping for a more specific quote, you don't have that? But never mind, forget about Drivers Republic for now. Just based on commone sense, you think there is no problem at all about your statement: That a car that is slower than a Non Turbo 997 in a straight line, could in fact be as fast as the Porsche GT-2 around the track? That very same car?
Do you think there is a possibility that you have misunderstood that original statement by the major review institution that is Driver's Republic? This is your last chance to retract your statement so you don't lose further credibility -- it's clear you have not done your homework before entering this discussion (clutch cost, warranty, transmmission cost, wheel hop).
Just a friendly warning: there are many Porsche seasoned veterans lurking on this forum. Some not as patient as I am. If it seems I am doing a common sense check, that's because I am. I've found common sense to be the missing ingredient among many GT-R supporters clinging on to the 7:29 myth.
Oct 14, 2008 4:02:52 PM
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Carlos from Spain said:
Quit playing the mderator card, it shows lack of argumentation, and so far its been a good discussion. You should be more open to other's opinions hold not understimate the knowledge of people you don't know about.
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franki68 said:
Autocar's best handling car (which the Nissan won) illustrated how fast you can corner it,the car was fractionally slower over a road course than the LP560,but the GTR was limited to 112mph,now the gallardo hit over 135mph on some sections,they said without the limiter the GTR would have been 3-4 seconds quicker than the gallardo which is a formidable car.