CloseQuote:
AUM said:
I would like to see a five-lap race around the Ring between the fastest production cars with factory-selected racing drivers who can extract the car's ultimate performance.
Cars must be certified stock by an independent authority..
Cars start at one-minute intervals to avoid incidents.
These are street cars so five laps is sufficient.
The results would be very interesting.
Quote:
BiTurbo said:
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=57410&vf=12
Ever heard of a thief saying I did steal ?
Quote:
AUM said:
I would like to see a five-lap race around the Ring between the fastest production cars with factory-selected racing drivers who can extract the car's ultimate performance.
Cars must be certified stock by an independent authority.
Cars start at one-minute intervals to avoid incidents.
These are street cars so five laps is sufficient.
The results would be very interesting.
Quote:
95jersey said:... No way a car with lighter springs and smaller sway bars is out hanlding a car with stiffer springs and bigger sway bars.
Quote:
95jersey said:Quote:
AUM said:
I would like to see a five-lap race around the Ring between the fastest production cars with factory-selected racing drivers who can extract the car's ultimate performance.
Cars must be certified stock by an independent authority.
Cars start at one-minute intervals to avoid incidents.
These are street cars so five laps is sufficient.
The results would be very interesting.
We'll even this wouldn't work, because there are so many variances in tires. Some cars come with very aggresive almost race like rubber, and some come with street biased run-flats. Tire have the MOST to do with the ability of the car to corner. A good chassis/suspension simply enables the tire to work to it's maximum efficiency.
SO, I would just add, put all cars on exactly equal tires. Hell slap a set of the same R compounds on each car in their respective sizes. Then the tire factor comes OUT of the equation and you will see cars that normally perform mid-pack all of a sudden be front runners simply due to the lack of the stock tire compared to other cars.
Take the ZR-1 compared to the Z06, same chassis, same suspension geometry, actually SOFTER springs and smaller sway bars, but bigger HP, a trick magnetic shock and MICHELIN CUP "like" tires. The HP of the ZR-1 for example helps tremendously in a strait line, but the real improvement comes from the tires in that case. No way a car with lighter springs and smaller sway bars is out hanlding a car with stiffer springs and bigger sway bars. It's about the tires my friends. If you put a set of ZR1 tires in a Z06, you will see an HUGE differnce to the point where it almost becomes a new car.
I have seen a ZR-1 and checked out the tires and they are almost as soft feeling as my hardcore race compound rubber. I wonder if the GT-R doesn't field a similar advantage? From my previous post where the car raced in a class with other cars with similar tires and all of a sudden the car didn't perform so well???
This variable was nearly as pronounced as it was 10, even 5 years ago! Tire technology has come so far, and the manufacturers are more willing to push what they will put on their street cars to make great numbers. It is SO easy to get 3-4 seconds improvement in a car by making the tire compound more aggressive.
I have seen $5000 Miata's on R compound out corner the most expensive supercars on street tires. I always thought the Z06 was so limited in this area and even though it's performance was steller, was so underrated because of it's crappy run flat tires.
Oct 5, 2008 7:24:44 PM
Oct 5, 2008 8:00:03 PM
Quote:
eclou said:
This is also why the life expectancy is less than 5k street miles.
Quote:
ADias said:Quote:
95jersey said:... No way a car with lighter springs and smaller sway bars is out hanlding a car with stiffer springs and bigger sway bars.
That is far from true, especially on the Ring. Stiff suspensions work well on smooth tracks - the Ring is quite bumpy.
It certainly felt better to me.
Oct 8, 2008 10:18:00 AM
Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:
I didn't read the entire thread, just want to add some observations from a crazy guy who recently tried to get below 7:30 with his modded 964 Turbo (993 GT2 engine tuned to 520 hp). For practise he booked a slot during the industry days at NoS and by chance Nissan was doing some fast laps with two GT-R. The cars were definitely not stock (especially enginewise). The GTRs could walk away from his 520 hp Porsche low weight Porsche on the straights, but he was not impressed by the corner performance. They clocked quite some laps all in the 7:35 - 7:40 mark.
Quote:
SteveD said:
Tyre wise we found that the GT-R's cornerspeed was up with (and beyond) the 997 GT2 (fitted with Michelin Cups), but the GT-R was at least 10mph slower than the GT2 on the straights. Despite this straight line disadvantage the GT-R was still quicker around a lap than the GT2, and that wasn't due to tyres nor a modified engine.
Quote:
SteveD said:Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:
I didn't read the entire thread, just want to add some observations from a crazy guy who recently tried to get below 7:30 with his modded 964 Turbo (993 GT2 engine tuned to 520 hp). For practise he booked a slot during the industry days at NoS and by chance Nissan was doing some fast laps with two GT-R. The cars were definitely not stock (especially enginewise). The GTRs could walk away from his 520 hp Porsche low weight Porsche on the straights, but he was not impressed by the corner performance. They clocked quite some laps all in the 7:35 - 7:40 mark.
We have been spending quite a lot of time with Nissan during the past few months, and we're running our GT-R Competition with them to allow a lucky reader to sample a GT-R on the 'ring for themselves.
From what I understand the infamous lap time was set in ideal conditions using standard tyres on an unmodified car, however there are wider variations than you might realise in the term 'standard car'.
Firstly we found that a japanese spec GT-R was quite noticeably quicker than a US-spec GT-R, also from within a batch of 12 US spec GT-Rs when lapped around Silverstone's GP circuit they were not all equal.
The US spec GT-R accelerated on a par with the new PDK 997 C2, whereas the japanese spec GT-R we drove the following day was able to pull away from the 997.
Tyre wise we found that the GT-R's cornerspeed was up with (and beyond) the 997 GT2 (fitted with Michelin Cups), but the GT-R was at least 10mph slower than the GT2 on the straights. Despite this straight line disadvantage the GT-R was still quicker around a lap than the GT2, and that wasn't due to tyres nor a modified engine.
I'm looking forward to seeing how Nissan respond to Porsche's scathing criticism, I suspect it will be fun to watch..
Oct 8, 2008 12:46:33 PM
Quote:
What explanation does Nissan offer for the japanese spec vs. US spec difference?
I am sure DR people must have tried to suss that out.
Anyway I am not damning the GT-R, but the whole affair is not straightforward at all.
I am not jumping into conclusions myself but equally the press should have been more careful and responsible before they passed their drooling verdicts on to unsuspecting readers. For example a US buyer might be led to order by tests involving Jap spec cars to find out that the car he paid for is not as quick.
Quote:
boytronic said:
Thanks for this Steve! Have you guys done dyno tests to see how how the numbers vary?
Quote:
SteveD said:Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:
I didn't read the entire thread, just want to add some observations from a crazy guy who recently tried to get below 7:30 with his modded 964 Turbo (993 GT2 engine tuned to 520 hp). For practise he booked a slot during the industry days at NoS and by chance Nissan was doing some fast laps with two GT-R. The cars were definitely not stock (especially enginewise). The GTRs could walk away from his 520 hp Porsche low weight Porsche on the straights, but he was not impressed by the corner performance. They clocked quite some laps all in the 7:35 - 7:40 mark.
We have been spending quite a lot of time with Nissan during the past few months, and we're running our GT-R Competition with them to allow a lucky reader to sample a GT-R on the 'ring for themselves.
From what I understand the infamous lap time was set in ideal conditions using standard tyres on an unmodified car, however there are wider variations than you might realise in the term 'standard car'.
Firstly we found that a japanese spec GT-R was quite noticeably quicker than a US-spec GT-R, also from within a batch of 12 US spec GT-Rs when lapped around Silverstone's GP circuit they were not all equal.
The US spec GT-R accelerated on a par with the new PDK 997 C2, whereas the japanese spec GT-R we drove the following day was able to pull away from the 997.
Tyre wise we found that the GT-R's cornerspeed was up with (and beyond) the 997 GT2 (fitted with Michelin Cups), but the GT-R was at least 10mph slower than the GT2 on the straights. Despite this straight line disadvantage the GT-R was still quicker around a lap than the GT2, and that wasn't due to tyres nor a modified engine.
I'm looking forward to seeing how Nissan respond to Porsche's scathing criticism, I suspect it will be fun to watch..
This confirms that Nissan is at least cheating on all US customers.
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
SteveD said:Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:
I didn't read the entire thread, just want to add some observations from a crazy guy who recently tried to get below 7:30 with his modded 964 Turbo (993 GT2 engine tuned to 520 hp). For practise he booked a slot during the industry days at NoS and by chance Nissan was doing some fast laps with two GT-R. The cars were definitely not stock (especially enginewise). The GTRs could walk away from his 520 hp Porsche low weight Porsche on the straights, but he was not impressed by the corner performance. They clocked quite some laps all in the 7:35 - 7:40 mark.
We have been spending quite a lot of time with Nissan during the past few months, and we're running our GT-R Competition with them to allow a lucky reader to sample a GT-R on the 'ring for themselves.
From what I understand the infamous lap time was set in ideal conditions using standard tyres on an unmodified car, however there are wider variations than you might realise in the term 'standard car'.
Firstly we found that a japanese spec GT-R was quite noticeably quicker than a US-spec GT-R, also from within a batch of 12 US spec GT-Rs when lapped around Silverstone's GP circuit they were not all equal.
The US spec GT-R accelerated on a par with the new PDK 997 C2, whereas the japanese spec GT-R we drove the following day was able to pull away from the 997.
Tyre wise we found that the GT-R's cornerspeed was up with (and beyond) the 997 GT2 (fitted with Michelin Cups), but the GT-R was at least 10mph slower than the GT2 on the straights. Despite this straight line disadvantage the GT-R was still quicker around a lap than the GT2, and that wasn't due to tyres nor a modified engine.
I'm looking forward to seeing how Nissan respond to Porsche's scathing criticism, I suspect it will be fun to watch..
Very interesting, thanks
Oct 8, 2008 8:30:51 PM
Oct 9, 2008 12:45:34 AM
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