Oct 1, 2008 10:46:42 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo
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Oct 1, 2008 10:56:38 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Oct 2, 2008 12:22:35 AM
- cannga
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Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GM
I never had a chance to compare the way you are doing now since I was at work and couldn't get off. This is a very good picture as it shows the relative positions of the holes (stock is about between the GMG's middle hole and the softest hole?) and the diameters of the 2 bars (seem to be same).
I assume this is the rear pair, from the drop link size.
Do you have picture of the front pair please? Do they look the same also? How about positions of holes? TIA
I assume this is the rear pair, from the drop link size.
Do you have picture of the front pair please? Do they look the same also? How about positions of holes? TIA
Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GM
Alex, it seems you have an excellent shop and I am sure he would have told you already, but it seems the front lower control arm is very close to hitting the sway bar, if not at rest then possibly at higher speed with bad road bumps?
BTW, these pictures could be extremely helpful for those down the line. When my car was being worked on, I actually looked at Atomic/Jason's pictures that he posted way back when, to see how his shop (Cantrell Motorsports) connected the Tarett's drop links. (Jason and Eclou were the first guinea pigs, and probably GT.)
BTW, these pictures could be extremely helpful for those down the line. When my car was being worked on, I actually looked at Atomic/Jason's pictures that he posted way back when, to see how his shop (Cantrell Motorsports) connected the Tarett's drop links. (Jason and Eclou were the first guinea pigs, and probably GT.)
Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GM
Fascinating, I guess this is what you'd call perfect corner balance! 
I've read a lot about this but have never seen it done. Thanks for the pictures.
Do you know how much height adjustment at each corner they had to do? Does the car have any noticeable height difference at each corner after the corner balance?
BTW, I've been told Beissbarth, the wheel alignment system that your shop is using, is top notch equipment and very expensive. GMG uses the same system.
I've read a lot about this but have never seen it done. Thanks for the pictures.
Do you know how much height adjustment at each corner they had to do? Does the car have any noticeable height difference at each corner after the corner balance?
BTW, I've been told Beissbarth, the wheel alignment system that your shop is using, is top notch equipment and very expensive. GMG uses the same system.
Oct 2, 2008 1:37:36 PM
- TB993tt
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Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GMG
Alex... great thread enjoyed it, thanks for making the effort and posting all the pics 
Your weight grossed up to DIN ie 90% fuel load is right around the 1580kg mark which Porsche quote so I guess your wheels offset the extra weight of the UK spec sunroof and rear wiper ?
Your weight grossed up to DIN ie 90% fuel load is right around the 1580kg mark which Porsche quote so I guess your wheels offset the extra weight of the UK spec sunroof and rear wiper ?
Oct 2, 2008 10:50:02 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Oct 2, 2008 10:53:33 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GM
Cannga - with regards to sway widths:
Rear
OEM 22.2mm
Gmg 21.6mm
Front
OEM 24mm
Gmg 25.5mm
On the FRONT gmg bar's middle position is near equivalent to stock (slightly stiffer due to diameter).
On the rear gmg's bar the outermost position is stock with a further 2 stiffer inner positions .
And no, when the car was lowered from the supports, no components were close to touching
Rear
OEM 22.2mm
Gmg 21.6mm
Front
OEM 24mm
Gmg 25.5mm
On the FRONT gmg bar's middle position is near equivalent to stock (slightly stiffer due to diameter).
On the rear gmg's bar the outermost position is stock with a further 2 stiffer inner positions .
And no, when the car was lowered from the supports, no components were close to touching
Oct 2, 2008 10:56:31 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Oct 2, 2008 10:58:39 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GMG
Quote:
TB993tt said:
Alex... great thread enjoyed it, thanks for making the effort and posting all the pics
Your weight grossed up to DIN ie 90% fuel load is right around the 1580kg mark which Porsche quote so I guess your wheels offset the extra weight of the UK spec sunroof and rear wiper ?
But I have: PCCB (-20kg), HRE (-5kg), CG exhuast (-5kg). So all my factory 'luxury' extras have obviously made my car even more of a 'porker'!
Oct 3, 2008 4:26:22 AM
- TT Surgeon
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Oct 3, 2008 9:47:04 AM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GMG
OK so initial report. Please note that I need to do a lot more driving before I can give a more balanced perspective.
Bilstein's are the only aftermarket dampeners that I know which work with PASM (given the OEM ones are bottom of the range Bilstein anyway). That means the sport button still switches between soft and hard options.
If 0-10 is the range for a stock Turbo with normal mode being 0 and 10 being sport, then with the new Bilstein's normal is about 6 and sport is about 8 of 10. So normal is stiffer and sport is softer than stock - with the difference between the two much less apparent.
Now the big difference is how those bumps feel. So in normal mode you now feel more bumps in the road but instead of feeling all sharp and jagged (like stock Sport mode) the bumps now feel smoothed out. Chris likened this to stock feeling 'acidic' and the Damptronics feeling 'creamy'.
The whole car feels very much stiffer, flatter under acceleration (no squatting) and braking, and generally much more tight.
On the test drive me and Chris did, we couldn't invoke any over or under-steer going fast around (and around!) very small roundabouts. And on hard acceleration out of corners the car just grips into the tarmac and powers off!
Chris has done a great job with the geometry too, steering is very sharp and precise and as I mentioned the car just feels very balanced through corners now. We basically started of with GT3RS targets and then modified them slightly based on Chris' experience.
I will post later some pics of the alignment and corner balancing sheets Chris printed off for me.
That's all for now (as I have lots of work to get back to) but sufficed to say, I am extremely happy with my now near 'perfect Turbo'!
Bilstein's are the only aftermarket dampeners that I know which work with PASM (given the OEM ones are bottom of the range Bilstein anyway). That means the sport button still switches between soft and hard options.
If 0-10 is the range for a stock Turbo with normal mode being 0 and 10 being sport, then with the new Bilstein's normal is about 6 and sport is about 8 of 10. So normal is stiffer and sport is softer than stock - with the difference between the two much less apparent.
Now the big difference is how those bumps feel. So in normal mode you now feel more bumps in the road but instead of feeling all sharp and jagged (like stock Sport mode) the bumps now feel smoothed out. Chris likened this to stock feeling 'acidic' and the Damptronics feeling 'creamy'.
The whole car feels very much stiffer, flatter under acceleration (no squatting) and braking, and generally much more tight.
On the test drive me and Chris did, we couldn't invoke any over or under-steer going fast around (and around!) very small roundabouts. And on hard acceleration out of corners the car just grips into the tarmac and powers off!
Chris has done a great job with the geometry too, steering is very sharp and precise and as I mentioned the car just feels very balanced through corners now. We basically started of with GT3RS targets and then modified them slightly based on Chris' experience.
I will post later some pics of the alignment and corner balancing sheets Chris printed off for me.
That's all for now (as I have lots of work to get back to) but sufficed to say, I am extremely happy with my now near 'perfect Turbo'!
Oct 3, 2008 10:18:39 AM
- Alex_997TT
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Oct 3, 2008 2:10:10 PM
- cannga
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Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GMG
Wow...What an amazing installation. You've just made it very easy for anyone in London who likes to install the Bilstein. I would just use the same shop!!
I love the corner balance result btw (I want it... I want it...
). And thanks for the data & pics of the sways; I'll have to import the info to the other thread. Did your installer say anything about the fact that the diameter of stock rear sway is bigger than GMG's?
I have some questions about the rear toe link later. But for now, congrats!
I love the corner balance result btw (I want it... I want it...
). And thanks for the data & pics of the sways; I'll have to import the info to the other thread. Did your installer say anything about the fact that the diameter of stock rear sway is bigger than GMG's?
I have some questions about the rear toe link later. But for now, congrats!
Oct 3, 2008 2:42:51 PM
- easy_rider911
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Oct 3, 2008 4:36:10 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GMG
Quote:
cannga said:
Wow...What an amazing installation. You've just made it very easy for anyone in London who likes to install the Bilstein. I would just use the same shop!!
Cheers buddy
Yes, Chris said there was not one single complication with the install. It's all in the attention to detail on the preparation though. He took apart every single part, checked it was ok and then greased it!
Personally I wouldn't use anyone else apart from Chris again for suspension related changes here in the UK. He knows his stuff and is excellent at what he does. The Porsche Club GB guys all swear by him - and I now see why!
Oct 4, 2008 11:25:09 AM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GM
GT - look about 5 posts up for first impressions!
I have just been out for an hour on some back roads. The car feels extremely tight and agile. The new tyres need wearing in a little but even in the wet it's hard to reach the car's grip limits on quiet public roads.
The only thing that I am a little concerned with is the stiffness of the car over rough terrain, especially when going slow.
I am rethinking my 0-10 initial assessment. I would now say normal and sport are closer to 7 and 8 with an empty fuel guage and 5 and 7 with a full tank.
I have just been out for an hour on some back roads. The car feels extremely tight and agile. The new tyres need wearing in a little but even in the wet it's hard to reach the car's grip limits on quiet public roads.
The only thing that I am a little concerned with is the stiffness of the car over rough terrain, especially when going slow.
I am rethinking my 0-10 initial assessment. I would now say normal and sport are closer to 7 and 8 with an empty fuel guage and 5 and 7 with a full tank.
Oct 4, 2008 11:34:53 AM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GM
Also you have to creep over and kind of crest in the road surface otherwise you scrape your underside!
So I would say that my configuration is probably at the limit of daily driver usage but take it on some flat twisties and you won't stop smiling for hours!
So I would say that my configuration is probably at the limit of daily driver usage but take it on some flat twisties and you won't stop smiling for hours!
Oct 7, 2008 11:03:13 PM
- cannga
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Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GM
Alex,
Question about your Turbo's ride height please. Is this picture the one showing the front ride height measurement? In other words, from this spot, the measurement reads 118mm in your car?
I am going to check mine to compare to yours, as my car's "official" ride height measurement was not done.
Question about your Turbo's ride height please. Is this picture the one showing the front ride height measurement? In other words, from this spot, the measurement reads 118mm in your car?
I am going to check mine to compare to yours, as my car's "official" ride height measurement was not done.
Oct 8, 2008 9:58:35 AM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GM
Quote:
cannga said:
Question about your Turbo's ride height please. Is this picture the one showing the front ride height measurement? In other words, from this spot, the measurement reads 118mm in your car?
I am not sure, I will ask Chris and get back to you.
Oct 9, 2008 12:58:02 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GM
OK, so Chris said:
Hope that helps
Quote:
The photos show the factory measuring points. The front was taken without under-tray. There is a hole in the under-tray through which the bolt is visible
The rear - is a milled flat on the alloy sub-frame, you must make sure that the car is fully fueled, tyre pressures correct and on level ground.
Hope that helps
Oct 9, 2008 1:21:23 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Oct 9, 2008 4:45:24 PM
- cannga
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Re: REPORT: Suspension upgrades with Bilstein + GM
Yes it's very helpful. Thank you. Finally someone shows me an actual picture of ride height measurement. I'll be searching under my car this weekend. Am sure my wife will be observing with a look of bewilderment.
BTW, I must admit in my spare time I look at the pictures you've posted in this thread. Turbo = the gift that keeps giving, and taking. Grin.
BTW, I must admit in my spare time I look at the pictures you've posted in this thread. Turbo = the gift that keeps giving, and taking. Grin.
Quote:
Alex_997TT said:
OK, so Chris said:Quote:
The photos show the factory measuring points. The front was taken without under-tray. There is a hole in the under-tray through which the bolt is visible
The rear - is a milled flat on the alloy sub-frame, you must make sure that the car is fully fueled, tyre pressures correct and on level ground.
Hope that helps
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