Sep 18, 2008 4:21:10 PM
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eclou
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Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
Update of old spring rate data. I recently found the spring rates for 997 GT3, plus some data on Turbo and GT2 springs. Anyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Comparing the stock spring rates of 997 GT3 and 996/997 Turbo, it should be obvious that the Turbo is designed PRIMARILY for comfort
, and that if one is to have fun with this car or to evaluate its track potential, the stock springs MUST go. OTOH, that the Turbo is shackled with such very soft springs makes its ring time of 7:52 even more remarkable. One should be careful to race a Turbo once the springs are replaced, because, as they say, the beast is unleashed.
BTW, for anyone not familiar, the last 2 posters (TTSurgeon and eclou) are track veterans who have taken their cars to speeds that most of us never will -- around 190 mph in eclou's case I believe. What's remarkable about this? These same cars are used in daily activities, like going to the grocery store LOL. Such is the uniqueness of the Turbo and I feel lucky to own one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Some numbers I gathered during my fact finding mission. When comparing spring rates, note that GT3/GT2 is around 300 lbs lighter than Turbo.
Bilstein PSS10 Damptronic for 997 Turbo
Front 285 Main, 115 Tender
Rear 570 Main, 145 Tender
More or less effective 285/570; the tender/helper springs are fully compressed when installed.
Stock 996 TT:
Front: 187 Progressive
Rear: 340 Progressive
Stock 997 TT: No numbers available, but probably similar to 996 TT numbers above.
Front: Progressive
Rear: Progressive
Stock 997 GT2
Front: Linear
Rear: Progressive
Stock 996 GT3:
Front: 225 Linear
Rear: 550 Progressive
Stock 997 GT3:
Front: 257
Rear: 600
Of the springs, GMG Springs are apparently stiffer than Techart, which is in turn stiffer than H&R. Note however, that some (or all?) of these springs are progressive, meaning that they are initially soft, then become stiffer as they compress. For obvious reason, none of the spring vendors reveal their products' parameters.
Comparing the stock spring rates of 997 GT3 and 996/997 Turbo, it should be obvious that the Turbo is designed PRIMARILY for comfort
, and that if one is to have fun with this car or to evaluate its track potential, the stock springs MUST go. OTOH, that the Turbo is shackled with such very soft springs makes its ring time of 7:52 even more remarkable. One should be careful to race a Turbo once the springs are replaced, because, as they say, the beast is unleashed.BTW, for anyone not familiar, the last 2 posters (TTSurgeon and eclou) are track veterans who have taken their cars to speeds that most of us never will -- around 190 mph in eclou's case I believe. What's remarkable about this? These same cars are used in daily activities, like going to the grocery store LOL. Such is the uniqueness of the Turbo and I feel lucky to own one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Some numbers I gathered during my fact finding mission. When comparing spring rates, note that GT3/GT2 is around 300 lbs lighter than Turbo.
Bilstein PSS10 Damptronic for 997 Turbo
Front 285 Main, 115 Tender
Rear 570 Main, 145 Tender
More or less effective 285/570; the tender/helper springs are fully compressed when installed.
Stock 996 TT:
Front: 187 Progressive
Rear: 340 Progressive
Stock 997 TT: No numbers available, but probably similar to 996 TT numbers above.
Front: Progressive
Rear: Progressive
Stock 997 GT2
Front: Linear
Rear: Progressive
Stock 996 GT3:
Front: 225 Linear
Rear: 550 Progressive
Stock 997 GT3:
Front: 257
Rear: 600
Of the springs, GMG Springs are apparently stiffer than Techart, which is in turn stiffer than H&R. Note however, that some (or all?) of these springs are progressive, meaning that they are initially soft, then become stiffer as they compress. For obvious reason, none of the spring vendors reveal their products' parameters.
Sep 24, 2008 9:02:20 AM
- Alex_997TT
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Sep 25, 2008 1:45:36 AM
- cannga
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Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
Alex/salihbjk,
Not trying to be smart a** here, just wanting to confirm that the information is correct. When I called Bilstein USA, the guy looked up some guideline and told me this (posted on the first page, LOL):
The official Bilstein recommendation is that ride heights be reduced 10-30 mm front, and 5-25mm rear. It's interesting that they do NOT recommend stock ride heights.
Since I think both front and rear should be lowered an equal amount, my take from this is that 10-25 should be the range. Did Bilstein Europe tell you the different parameters below?
The risk with lowering too much btw is that you hit the internal bump stop. I don't even know what it looks like or what it does, just know that it's not good to hit it.
Not trying to be smart a** here, just wanting to confirm that the information is correct. When I called Bilstein USA, the guy looked up some guideline and told me this (posted on the first page, LOL):
The official Bilstein recommendation is that ride heights be reduced 10-30 mm front, and 5-25mm rear. It's interesting that they do NOT recommend stock ride heights.
Since I think both front and rear should be lowered an equal amount, my take from this is that 10-25 should be the range. Did Bilstein Europe tell you the different parameters below?
The risk with lowering too much btw is that you hit the internal bump stop. I don't even know what it looks like or what it does, just know that it's not good to hit it.
Quote:
Alex_997TT said:Quote:
salihbjk said:
can we still run the stock ride height when we install this kit?
Bilstein have a recommended drop range of 15-35mm.
Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
Bobby,
Thank you. Many people posting on various forums have helped with data on this thread, including my personal advisor eclou, so credit must go where it's due. I am just the gatherer of info.
If it's the H&R springs you are referring to, I should clarify that it is just hear-say info (from a competitor no less!) because these vendors -- except Bilstein -- do not disclose their products' specifications. I really should delete that last paragraph next time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Some numbers I gathered during my fact finding mission. When comparing spring rates, note that GT3/GT2 is around 300 lbs lighter than Turbo.
Bilstein PSS10 Damptronic for 997 Turbo
Front 285 Main, 115 Tender
Rear 570 Main, 145 Tender
More or less effective 285/570; the tender/helper springs are fully compressed when installed.
Stock 996 TT:
Front: 187 Progressive
Rear: 340 Progressive
Stock 997 TT: No numbers available, but probably similar to 996 TT numbers above.
Front: Progressive
Rear: Progressive
Stock 997 GT2
Front: Linear
Rear: Progressive
Stock 996 GT3:
Front: 225 Linear
Rear: 550 Progressive
Stock 997 GT3:
Front: 257
Rear: 600
Of the springs, GMG Springs are apparently stiffer than Techart, which is in turn stiffer than H&R. Note however, that some (or all?) of these springs are progressive, meaning that they are initially soft, then become stiffer as they compress. For obvious reason, none of the spring vendors reveal their products' parameters.
Thank you. Many people posting on various forums have helped with data on this thread, including my personal advisor eclou, so credit must go where it's due. I am just the gatherer of info.
If it's the H&R springs you are referring to, I should clarify that it is just hear-say info (from a competitor no less!) because these vendors -- except Bilstein -- do not disclose their products' specifications. I really should delete that last paragraph next time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Some numbers I gathered during my fact finding mission. When comparing spring rates, note that GT3/GT2 is around 300 lbs lighter than Turbo.
Bilstein PSS10 Damptronic for 997 Turbo
Front 285 Main, 115 Tender
Rear 570 Main, 145 Tender
More or less effective 285/570; the tender/helper springs are fully compressed when installed.
Stock 996 TT:
Front: 187 Progressive
Rear: 340 Progressive
Stock 997 TT: No numbers available, but probably similar to 996 TT numbers above.
Front: Progressive
Rear: Progressive
Stock 997 GT2
Front: Linear
Rear: Progressive
Stock 996 GT3:
Front: 225 Linear
Rear: 550 Progressive
Stock 997 GT3:
Front: 257
Rear: 600
Of the springs, GMG Springs are apparently stiffer than Techart, which is in turn stiffer than H&R. Note however, that some (or all?) of these springs are progressive, meaning that they are initially soft, then become stiffer as they compress. For obvious reason, none of the spring vendors reveal their products' parameters.
Quote:
bbywu said:
Wow, Can...this is really useful. I can't believe the spring rates on the 996TT...if this is true for the 997TT, I shudder to think what they are for the H&Rs that many people have installed.
Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
cannga, I know the drop is recommended, but I told about poor road conditions, even on highways on here. I can even barely go in to my garage without hitting the front 
Anyway, I ordered the set from Dan today, it will be with me next week. But still couldn't decide about the drop. In my personal opinion, I would drop it 35mm (max recommended drop I guess). We'll see when it arrives
Anyway, I ordered the set from Dan today, it will be with me next week. But still couldn't decide about the drop. In my personal opinion, I would drop it 35mm (max recommended drop I guess). We'll see when it arrives
Sep 28, 2008 9:59:08 AM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
Quote:
cannga said:
The official Bilstein recommendation is that ride heights be reduced 10-30 mm front, and 5-25mm rear. It's interesting that they do NOT recommend stock ride heights.
As I have mentioned before there are 2 versions of Damptronics - as can be seen on the Cargraphic site:
http://www.cargraphic.de/sources/downloads/BILSTEIN.pdf
The Damptronics come in normal or clubsport variants...
GA5D598 Sportsuspension B16 damptronic, FA+RA 15-35mm CLUBSPORT/
GA5D581 Sportsuspension B16 damptronic, FA 25-35mm, RA 15-35mm /
From a CG partner:
Quote:
The difference between the Clubsport and non-Clubsport is that the Clubsport is the suspension system concentrated to the fast-road or track day user, where as the non Clubsport is more for the comfort handling. Going for these suspension systems, we would only suggest the Clubsport version
I have gone for the Clubsport version.
What I didn't actually realize is that the OEM dampeners are already Bilstein. However, due to Porsche accountants running making all the calls, Porsche fit the cheapy option instead of the B16 Damptronics.
I dropped my Turbo off at the fitters yesterday, so hopefully middle of next week when I go back, I will have a full report to share
Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
Alex,
Got it. Thanks.
salihbjk,
Good luck with the installation! Re. the risks of going outside of the range of Bilstein's recommendation, here are the reasons:
Drop too much: Hitting internal bump stops. Not good.
Not dropping as much as Bilstein recommends: I think the term used is "coil binding." It means, I think, that you are now starting to compress the spring even at rest, completely messing up the intended response. The system becomes much stiffer than intended.
I should mention that I am treading perilously close to an area that is completely outside of my knowledge range. As always, I welcome needed correction. BTW, I've called Bilstein's help desk so many times they even remember who I am now. 
LOL.
Got it. Thanks.
salihbjk,
Good luck with the installation! Re. the risks of going outside of the range of Bilstein's recommendation, here are the reasons:
Drop too much: Hitting internal bump stops. Not good.
Not dropping as much as Bilstein recommends: I think the term used is "coil binding." It means, I think, that you are now starting to compress the spring even at rest, completely messing up the intended response. The system becomes much stiffer than intended.
I should mention that I am treading perilously close to an area that is completely outside of my knowledge range.
As always, I welcome needed correction. BTW, I've called Bilstein's help desk so many times they even remember who I am now. LOL.
Quote:
salihbjk said:
cannga, I know the drop is recommended, but I told about poor road conditions, even on highways on here. I can even barely go in to my garage without hitting the front
Sep 30, 2008 5:11:48 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Oct 1, 2008 1:12:15 AM
- cannga
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Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
Quote:
Alex_997TT said:
GMG are suggesting set the rear bar at full stiff and the front soft. Anyone tried this?
I have tried so far 3 different combinations.
1. Medium front, medium rear, stock drop links
2. Soft front, stiff rear, Tarett drop links (keep in mind the Tarett drop links make the suspension feel stiffer and you'll understand why I had to move to the next step)
3. Medium front, medium rear, Tarett drop links
Making front sway as soft as possible and rear sway as stiff as possible is the setting recommended when one is trying to reduce understeer. However there were consequences when I did this:
1. When I set the front sway to soft, it made the car lean more (as expected) AND the steering response feel loose. For example, when you wiggle the steering back and forth on the freeway, the car wouldn't lean/respond immediately, and would continue to lean a touch after steering wheel is stopped. This is similar to behavior of stock sway.
2. Making rear sway stiff: Might be ok with stock drop links, but I wouldn't advise this with the Tarett drop links. The Tarett drop links make the suspension feel stiffer to begin with, using Tarett with the stiff rear sway setting makes the ride way too stiff for me.
My observation is that the rear sway setting affects your ride quality quite a bit, more than the front. And the front setting affects steering feel. As far as understeer, hard for me to feel the difference, perhaps because I don't track the car and therefore don't corner at speeds high enough to feel a difference.
So bottom line is: keep in mind that when you change sway setting, the ride gets affected quite a bit, particularly in the rear. With stock drop links, I would suggest you try medium front, and medium or hard rear. With Tarett drop links, I would suggest medium front, and medium or soft rear.
Changing setting of sway bar is easy and literally takes a few minutes to do. One time my installer did this for free.
Oct 1, 2008 2:49:58 PM
- ALPINE_997
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Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
CANN - great info you have posted since you installed these.
I just raised my car up 15mm and the drop seems to look more like your drop. I had the car dropped pretty low and I was probably right at the edge of the bump stops but never hit them even on large dips on the highway at speeds. I liked the look of the low drop but I didn't like the handling. All things being equal - i just had my guy raise it 12mm in the front and 15mm in the back. My guy loaded the same specs on the alignment I had previously and then corner weighted/balanced everything to 50%. I must say that unplanted feel and the hops I was getting around sharp transitional corners is completely gone. I thought the coilover was too low to effectively damper or rebound quickly(not being techy here just saying what I felt or know.
My next mod for the suspension will be the sways from H&R. with a medium/medium setting. I will use OEM drop links unless someone can honestly say the Tarrets are a no brainer. CANN - maybe I missed it but did you install any dog-bones?
I just raised my car up 15mm and the drop seems to look more like your drop. I had the car dropped pretty low and I was probably right at the edge of the bump stops but never hit them even on large dips on the highway at speeds. I liked the look of the low drop but I didn't like the handling. All things being equal - i just had my guy raise it 12mm in the front and 15mm in the back. My guy loaded the same specs on the alignment I had previously and then corner weighted/balanced everything to 50%. I must say that unplanted feel and the hops I was getting around sharp transitional corners is completely gone. I thought the coilover was too low to effectively damper or rebound quickly(not being techy here just saying what I felt or know.
My next mod for the suspension will be the sways from H&R. with a medium/medium setting. I will use OEM drop links unless someone can honestly say the Tarrets are a no brainer. CANN - maybe I missed it but did you install any dog-bones?
Oct 1, 2008 2:54:40 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
Quote:
ALPINE_997 said:
My next mod for the suspension will be the sways from H&R. with a medium/medium setting. I will use OEM drop links unless someone can honestly say the Tarrets are a no brainer. CANN - maybe I missed it but did you install any dog-bones?
I would use GMG sways if you are going to use OEM drop links as they are the only sways I know of that are designed to fit the turbo properly with these drop-links.
Myself, Cannga and Chris all in this thread have GMG sways now.
Oct 1, 2008 2:58:47 PM
- ALPINE_997
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Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
Fine - twist my arm Thank you for the info on the OEM and GMG's.
So would you recommend the Toe/Dog-Bones or would that be overkill for a street car?
I like handling over HP at the moment as the Turbo has more than enough for me currently.
Thank you for the info on the OEM and GMG's.So would you recommend the Toe/Dog-Bones or would that be overkill for a street car?
I like handling over HP at the moment as the Turbo has more than enough for me currently.
Oct 1, 2008 3:18:54 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
Quote:
ALPINE_997 said:
Fine - twist my arm
So would you recommend the Toe/Dog-Bones or would that be overkill for a street car?
I like handling over HP at the moment as the Turbo has more than enough for me currently.
I will be able to tell you first hand tomorrow!! See my report thread for details. My car is also principally a street car.
Oct 1, 2008 3:31:41 PM
- TT Surgeon
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Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
My car is significantly 'tighter' feeling with the bones and toe links, but they may be borderline overkill on a street car. My main empetus for the suspension mods was to get some more negative camber for my occasional track outings, the bones and toes will help significantly with correcting geometry on a lowered car.
Oct 1, 2008 3:45:15 PM
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GT
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Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
I am actually going completely overboard and I in the process of installing the full package.. Toe links (already istalled) dog bones, thrust bushings F/R and GT3 cut lower control arms. That is in addition to bilsteins and gt3 sways (and dymags). I'll report in a couple of weeks when all is installed. Hope the car will still be ok for daily driving!
TTsurgeon, you have the GMG setup right? I believe that also includes the thrust bushings no? Also can you pls send me your alignment specs?
Thanks
TTsurgeon, you have the GMG setup right? I believe that also includes the thrust bushings no? Also can you pls send me your alignment specs?
Thanks
Oct 1, 2008 3:58:34 PM
- TT Surgeon
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Oct 1, 2008 5:54:28 PM
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GT
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Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
So am not the only crazy person here..! Would you say that your car is still a street car or too stiff for the road? Was considering the monoball bushings but decided against them for that reason..
I have similar settings to you and the car oversteers a lot after the toe link. Will wait until everything is installed and then realign. Maybe the toe in the rear is not "in" enough or my rear tires are at the end.. (I do go sideways every opportunity I get on those slippery roads!)
You oakley and gmg were telling me they use -3.5 camber in the front and -2.5 in rear!!
I have similar settings to you and the car oversteers a lot after the toe link. Will wait until everything is installed and then realign. Maybe the toe in the rear is not "in" enough or my rear tires are at the end.. (I do go sideways every opportunity I get on those slippery roads!)
You oakley and gmg were telling me they use -3.5 camber in the front and -2.5 in rear!!
Oct 1, 2008 6:24:21 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Oct 2, 2008 2:12:42 AM
- TT Surgeon
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Oct 7, 2008 11:59:57 PM
- cannga
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Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
Thanks and welcome to peaceful rennteam -- nothing like 6speedonline's wild, wild west!
Some info on GMG sway that I haven't added to this thread. First as far as H&R or GMG sways: I have no idea how they are different from each other with respect to stiffness/performance. The only reason I went with GMG (actually made by Eibach) was at the time I was going to go with the whole GMG package (later changed my mind to Bilstein PSS10).
GMG Front Sway Bar: 3 settings: soft, middle, stiff. The GMG front soft setting is 10% stiffer than stock, middle 20%, and stiff 30%.
GMG Rear Sway: 3 settings: soft, middle, stiff. The GMG rear soft setting is 20% stiffer than stock, middle around 35%, and stiff is 50%. Fabryce of GMG gave me these numbers over the phone, off the top of his head, so accuracy is close but may not be 100%.
The GMG sway was actually the first component installed in my car. I wanted to find out what it does by itself. The effects are very subtle, NOTHING like the transformation of the PSS10. At the middle settings, leaning is reduced a little, but more importantly, the steering feels tighter. There is less free play to the steering wheel as you rock it back and forth for example. Enclosed is picture of GMG sway from Alex's fantastic installation.
I did not install the dog bones (rear upper control arms) because my installer think they are not necessary for me (no track). If anything I would like to add to my current setup of Bilstein/GMG sway/Tarett drop link, it would be the rear toe control arm (toe link). And I am hesitating even with that because currently at my driving speeds (fun but nothing crazy), I don't feel any problem that needs correcting. The system is perfect for me as is (not to say that it's for everyone). As brutally critical as I have been of the stock Turbo soft springs, I try to make the least change possible from stock suspension as each of these steps adds NVH. Let's see how long I can resist.
The Tarett drop links: No, they are not absolute must-haves. That said, now that I have them, I wouldn't remove them; and I have not read about anyone who would revert to stock after they've used them either. So in that sense I guess they are semi must-have's. Why do I keep them? With the stock drop links and Bilstein PSS10, I felt the car has a little rubbery/bouncy feel, with Tarett, the car is definitely stiffer, more planted, and I feel there is less "veiling" (can't think of a better word) between my derriere and the road/chassis. The negatives? The car feels stiffer, and probably brings a little more road noise. Think of them as the sway enhancer: Being solid link, they act to enhance the effect of the sway. If the car is too stiff for you now, I wouldn't add them. If the car does feel bouncy/rubbery, then they ARE a no brainer recommendation. They links are cheap and evaluation is completely reversible. Labor should be no more than $200. http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-rear-drop-link-set-996rdlnk-detail.htm
I read about the internal bump stop problem from a person on 6speedonline's 996TT forum. Big huge thread and an eye opening for many readers. I don't remember anymore but it was a big drop, at least 35mm-40mm IIRC. If you stay within Bilstein's recommendation, you should be ok.
Regards,
Can
Some info on GMG sway that I haven't added to this thread. First as far as H&R or GMG sways: I have no idea how they are different from each other with respect to stiffness/performance. The only reason I went with GMG (actually made by Eibach) was at the time I was going to go with the whole GMG package (later changed my mind to Bilstein PSS10).
GMG Front Sway Bar: 3 settings: soft, middle, stiff. The GMG front soft setting is 10% stiffer than stock, middle 20%, and stiff 30%.
GMG Rear Sway: 3 settings: soft, middle, stiff. The GMG rear soft setting is 20% stiffer than stock, middle around 35%, and stiff is 50%. Fabryce of GMG gave me these numbers over the phone, off the top of his head, so accuracy is close but may not be 100%.
The GMG sway was actually the first component installed in my car. I wanted to find out what it does by itself. The effects are very subtle, NOTHING like the transformation of the PSS10. At the middle settings, leaning is reduced a little, but more importantly, the steering feels tighter. There is less free play to the steering wheel as you rock it back and forth for example. Enclosed is picture of GMG sway from Alex's fantastic installation.
I did not install the dog bones (rear upper control arms) because my installer think they are not necessary for me (no track). If anything I would like to add to my current setup of Bilstein/GMG sway/Tarett drop link, it would be the rear toe control arm (toe link). And I am hesitating even with that because currently at my driving speeds (fun but nothing crazy), I don't feel any problem that needs correcting. The system is perfect for me as is (not to say that it's for everyone). As brutally critical as I have been of the stock Turbo soft springs, I try to make the least change possible from stock suspension as each of these steps adds NVH. Let's see how long I can resist.
The Tarett drop links: No, they are not absolute must-haves. That said, now that I have them, I wouldn't remove them; and I have not read about anyone who would revert to stock after they've used them either. So in that sense I guess they are semi must-have's
. Why do I keep them? With the stock drop links and Bilstein PSS10, I felt the car has a little rubbery/bouncy feel, with Tarett, the car is definitely stiffer, more planted, and I feel there is less "veiling" (can't think of a better word) between my derriere and the road/chassis. The negatives? The car feels stiffer, and probably brings a little more road noise. Think of them as the sway enhancer: Being solid link, they act to enhance the effect of the sway. If the car is too stiff for you now, I wouldn't add them. If the car does feel bouncy/rubbery, then they ARE a no brainer recommendation. They links are cheap and evaluation is completely reversible. Labor should be no more than $200. http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-rear-drop-link-set-996rdlnk-detail.htm
I read about the internal bump stop problem from a person on 6speedonline's 996TT forum. Big huge thread and an eye opening for many readers. I don't remember anymore but it was a big drop, at least 35mm-40mm IIRC. If you stay within Bilstein's recommendation, you should be ok.
Quote:
ALPINE_997 said:
CANN - great info you have posted since you installed these.
I just raised my car up 15mm and the drop seems to look more like your drop. I had the car dropped pretty low and I was probably right at the edge of the bump stops but never hit them even on large dips on the highway at speeds. I liked the look of the low drop but I didn't like the handling. All things being equal - i just had my guy raise it 12mm in the front and 15mm in the back. My guy loaded the same specs on the alignment I had previously and then corner weighted/balanced everything to 50%. I must say that unplanted feel and the hops I was getting around sharp transitional corners is completely gone. I thought the coilover was too low to effectively damper or rebound quickly(not being techy here just saying what I felt or know.
My next mod for the suspension will be the sways from H&R. with a medium/medium setting. I will use OEM drop links unless someone can honestly say the Tarrets are a no brainer. CANN - maybe I missed it but did you install any dog-bones?
Regards,
Can
Oct 8, 2008 4:41:49 AM
- ALPINE_997
- Newbie
-
- Loc: ATL, GA
- Posts: 3, Gallery
- Registered on: Jan 26, 2008
- Reply to: cannga
Oct 10, 2008 5:17:26 AM
- Over the Hill
- Pilot
-
- Loc: Bellevue, Washington, USA
- Posts: 386, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 16, 2006
- Reply to: ALPINE_997
Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
When I had the drop links (Tarett, Bilstein, and the stock) all side by side before the Tarett's were installed there did not seem to be any geometrical difference between them other than build quality. Had my installer not recommended the Tarett's they probably would not have been installed. I'd be hard pressed to tell anyone how I could "feel" the difference between the three different links. It would have to be very esoteric at best. However as I said before the Tarett's are worth the money because they are definitely more robust than the other two links. They are also more esthetically pleasing for those who are crawling around under their cars.
Oct 10, 2008 5:27:27 AM
- Over the Hill
- Pilot
-
- Loc: Bellevue, Washington, USA
- Posts: 386, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 16, 2006
- Reply to: Over the Hill
Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
On the topic of sway bars I installed H&R's (set on the middle setting), because they were available at the time I needed them. I'm not familiar with the GMG bars, however I'm not sure there would be much of difference between them and the H&R's unless they are the ones that are made out of hollow stock (would that be schedule 40 pipe), which would be lighter. I'm not sure who makes the hollow ones, but someone here can probably enlighten me. Then it would come down price and availability.
Oct 10, 2008 6:00:18 AM
- cannga
- Expert
-
- Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States
- Posts: 1940, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 6, 2005
- Reply to: Over the Hill
Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
Hi Larry,
Did Cantrell install first OEM drop link for you to evaluate, then replace it with Tarett? Or did they go straight to Tarett for you?
In other words, were you able to evaluate the Tarett as the only variable?
Both OEM and Bilstein have rubber bushings and are similar, the Tarett has all metallic ball joints, a rather big difference (there is near *zero* yield or bend with the Tarett), in addition to the much stiffer shaft. I could only re-confirm my finding, with Tarett as the only variable of change: When I changed to Tarett at hard setting, my car became intolerable to drive in LA and my teeth all wanted to come out. Please let me reassure you, the difference is NOT esoteric, or subtle, at all. And this is not just me, there are evaluations of similar nature on rennlist, but please don't make me search again, I'll go nuts.
Did Cantrell install first OEM drop link for you to evaluate, then replace it with Tarett? Or did they go straight to Tarett for you?
In other words, were you able to evaluate the Tarett as the only variable?
Both OEM and Bilstein have rubber bushings and are similar, the Tarett has all metallic ball joints, a rather big difference (there is near *zero* yield or bend with the Tarett), in addition to the much stiffer shaft. I could only re-confirm my finding, with Tarett as the only variable of change: When I changed to Tarett at hard setting, my car became intolerable to drive in LA and my teeth all wanted to come out.
Please let me reassure you, the difference is NOT esoteric, or subtle, at all. And this is not just me, there are evaluations of similar nature on rennlist, but please don't make me search again, I'll go nuts.
Quote:
Over the Hill said:
When I had the drop links (Tarett, Bilstein, and the stock) all side by side before the Tarett's were installed there did not seem to be any geometrical difference between them other than build quality. Had my installer not recommended the Tarett's they probably would not have been installed. I'd be hard pressed to tell anyone how I could "feel" the difference between the three different links. It would have to be very esoteric at best. However as I said before the Tarett's are worth the money because they are definitely more robust than the other two links. They are also more esthetically pleasing for those who are crawling around under their cars.
Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur
Hmm if that is the case I may have to consider switching to back to OEM links if my car is too harsh after all the components my mechanic is currently installing. The list has now gone insanely long; GT3 cup lower arms f/r, gmg solid thrust bushings f/r, monoball inner bushings f/r, dog bones rear.
The car is already pretty stiff with the toe links, bilsteins and drop links alone.. One thing that I found interesting is that one of the things that made the car noticeably stiffer was.. weight reduction.! When I put the dymags on, the difference was quite noticeable. Now yesterday I installed the gt2 seats (-25kgs+ vs adaptives) and again everything stiffened noticeably. Those seats are amazing btw, I fit perfectly in them and they are pretty comfortable. Took the car cornering last night and the feeling is much better, car feels more nimble as well.
The car is already pretty stiff with the toe links, bilsteins and drop links alone.. One thing that I found interesting is that one of the things that made the car noticeably stiffer was.. weight reduction.! When I put the dymags on, the difference was quite noticeable. Now yesterday I installed the gt2 seats (-25kgs+ vs adaptives) and again everything stiffened noticeably. Those seats are amazing btw, I fit perfectly in them and they are pretty comfortable. Took the car cornering last night and the feeling is much better, car feels more nimble as well.
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