Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Strangest starting grid in years. - Page2

Sep 14, 2008 6:31:19 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: reginos

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Also interesting to see that LH cut thru the chikane twce this race again.
Apparently he has a hard time staying on the track and/or he drives too optimistically/agressively when trying to pass.
At least he clearly has learned from the penalty, that he needed to get behind the one he just passed, and so did others.
So however u may feel about the FIA ruling about the chikane incident, at least the drivers have truly learned to obey the rules

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Sep 14, 2008 6:44:52 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
So however u may feel about the FIA ruling about the chikane incident, at least the drivers have truly learned to obey the rules

However,the FIA clarification that after giving the place back the driver has to wait after another corner to attack, came after the HAM penalty.
So, at the time of the HAM incident the situation was rather vague as to how long somebody should stay behind before trying to pass again.

At least this is my understanding.

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Sep 14, 2008 7:07:56 PM

ed_moree: Rennteam Pro; Loc: spain , China; Posts: 2407, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 15, 2005; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Lewis Hamilton, McLaren (7th):
"I felt I drove a really good race and was moving through the field very quickly when the circuit was at its wettest. If it had kept on raining, I feel pretty confident I probably could have even won from 15th grid position (...)".

Maybe I dont understand the realities of being an F1 pilot, but this guy really lacks class IMO.

Arrogant and [beep], for three laps where his car was empty with no gasoline and he thinks he is the god of idiots!!! After that he was unable to get close to Massa who was struggling... and he thinks he was the fastest out there.... I used to think that he is a nice guy but now with his atitude of stupid image marketing trying to sell a MAYBE future champion as he is already on the list as the gratest of all makes me sick and no good for his image. He should recognize that he was unable to deliver in this weekend no more than 10% of all the race. I can imagine him and his stupid father celebrating a possible victory, and maybe expecting some congratulations from the team... because at the end of the day everything was for the team!!!

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Sep 14, 2008 7:21:44 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: reginos

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
So however u may feel about the FIA ruling about the chikane incident, at least the drivers have truly learned to obey the rules

However,the FIA clarification that after giving the place back the driver has to wait after another corner to attack, came after the HAM penalty.
So, at the time of the HAM incident the situation was rather vague as to how long somebody should stay behind before trying to pass again.

At least this is my understanding.

My understanding is that the old rule was deemed to be so opaque that FIA felt it was necessary to clarify it in the drivers' briefing for today's GP.

Since this clarification came AFTER Hamilton's "infringement" of a rule retrospectively deemed to be unclear by FIA, the obvious conclusion has to be that his 25 second penalty will be withdrawn by FIA at the appeal!

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Sep 14, 2008 7:51:18 PM

Emperor: Veteran; Loc: London & Gothenburg; Posts: 1013, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2006; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Also interesting to see that LH cut thru the chikane twce this race again.

There not a single driver on the grid that didn't cut the chicane. Massa cut it very deep almost driving on the grass one, so Hamilton was far from the only one. Hamilton isn't overoptimistic, he's just very determined. Overtaking is very difficult, especially on many tracks where the opportunities are very small, couple that with a very defensive driver and it's almost impossible to overtake without getting slightly off track. I know how it since I have lived in Southern California and in the ruthless traffic there, aggressiveness is the only thing that will get you anywhere.

Other than that Hamilton had a terrific race and did a lot of very nice overtaking, so I'm very satisfied with his performance. It FIA didn't decide to "randomly" weigh his car during quali he would probably have qualified high and won the race.

I've never rated Kimi as the best driver on the grid and last year he wasn't even if he won. Massa, Hamilton and Alonso are much better drivers who have the fighter instinct Kimi lacks. I can't recall the last time I saw Kimi make some nice moves.

Vettel deserved the victory is is finally looking like a champion in the making. Rosberg better respond cause he's starting to look really really bad.

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Sep 14, 2008 7:53:38 PM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
So however u may feel about the FIA ruling about the chikane incident, at least the drivers have truly learned to obey the rules

However,the FIA clarification that after giving the place back the driver has to wait after another corner to attack, came after the HAM penalty.
So, at the time of the HAM incident the situation was rather vague as to how long somebody should stay behind before trying to pass again.

At least this is my understanding.

My understanding is that the old rule was deemed to be so opaque that FIA felt it was necessary to clarify it in the drivers' briefing for today's GP.

Since this clarification came AFTER Hamilton's "infringement" of a rule retrospectively deemed to be unclear by FIA, the obvious conclusion has to be that his 25 second penalty will be withdrawn by FIA at the appeal!

Totally agree...the penalty should be withdrawn.

Can't understand some of the post-race comments here.

We've been crying out for more (any) overtaking and 'racing moves' instead of the usual procession we get in dry conditions. Now when we get them, in abundance, there's all this criticism of unfair play.

Some of the racing today was the best for many years... Hamilton, in particular, was aggressive and exciting IMO.

Vettel, the youngest ever F1 winner, was outstanding.

Some of you guys are very hard to please...

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Sep 14, 2008 8:13:15 PM

rosso nuvola: Pilot; Loc: Switzerland; Posts: 338, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: John H

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Trulli said today on an interview that the rules were pretty clear before the rule clarification , the rule was madeeven more clear for those people that didn't want to understnd it ... his words...

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Sep 14, 2008 8:16:04 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: John H

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Quote:
John H said:
Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
So however u may feel about the FIA ruling about the chikane incident, at least the drivers have truly learned to obey the rules

However,the FIA clarification that after giving the place back the driver has to wait after another corner to attack, came after the HAM penalty.
So, at the time of the HAM incident the situation was rather vague as to how long somebody should stay behind before trying to pass again.

At least this is my understanding.

My understanding is that the old rule was deemed to be so opaque that FIA felt it was necessary to clarify it in the drivers' briefing for today's GP.

Since this clarification came AFTER Hamilton's "infringement" of a rule retrospectively deemed to be unclear by FIA, the obvious conclusion has to be that his 25 second penalty will be withdrawn by FIA at the appeal!

Totally agree...the penalty should be withdrawn.

Can't understand some of the post-race comments here.

We've been crying out for more (any) overtaking and 'racing moves' instead of the usual procession we get in dry conditions. Now when we get them, in abundance, there's all this criticism of unfair play.

Some of the racing today was the best for many years... Hamilton, in particular, was aggressive and exciting IMO.

Vettel, the youngest ever F1 winner, was outstanding.

Some of you guys are very hard to please...

I particularly find the comments about Hamilton's "arrogance" in his interviews amusing.
Probably made by people who were wearing Pampers in Niki Lauda's heyday.

Now his interviews were really amusing.

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Sep 14, 2008 8:49:03 PM

marco stradale: Newbie; Loc: South Africa; Posts: 8, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 30, 2004; Reply to: fritz

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

It's really amazing how much smack talk there is regarding Kimi.The Ferrari is extremely kind to it's tires and isn't generating any where near as much mechanical grip as some of the other cars.Similar problems plagued Ferrari with the one tire rule,when Schumi would take ages to get heat in the tire and than all of a sudden set fastest laps but be no where.

Massa has said in interviews before,that his driving style is a little bit better than Kimi's when it comes to generating heat in the tyre.

Next GP sees super softs and softs.If the race is dry, i'll bet Mclaren will have tire concerns and Ferrari will fly.

Bravo Vettel,a star of the future !!!!

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Sep 15, 2008 3:41:03 AM

Markdsv: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Schevening , Netherlands; Posts: 1197, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 24, 2007; Reply to: ezzie

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Great win and I am very happy for Vettel and the Toro Rosso Team. Just amazed with Ferrari not being able to drive in slippery conditions. I would say good luck to Massa for the rest of the season as many of the coming races are usually a washout !!!! Lewis for champion !!!!!

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Sep 15, 2008 10:01:32 AM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: marco stradale

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Quote:
marco stradale said:
It's really amazing how much smack talk there is regarding Kimi.The Ferrari is extremely kind to it's tires and isn't generating any where near as much mechanical grip as some of the other cars.Similar problems plagued Ferrari with the one tire rule,when Schumi would take ages to get heat in the tire and than all of a sudden set fastest laps but be no where.

Massa has said in interviews before,that his driving style is a little bit better than Kimi's when it comes to generating heat in the tyre.

Next GP sees super softs and softs.If the race is dry, i'll bet Mclaren will have tire concerns and Ferrari will fly.

Bravo Vettel,a star of the future !!!!

Thanks for some nice info

I really dont understand how the cars can perform that differently considering FIA regulations and the fact that most teams use so similar technology (Ferrari/McLaren scandal is a pretty good testament to that) that you would think the drivers like Kimi and LH's cars performed equally well, or at least more similarly, in different environments.
So youre saying that a lot of this comes down to the tyre? Seems Ferrari has had the advantage from the getgo, since they were on Bridgestone before the one-tyre rule came into play.
Strange...

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Sep 15, 2008 11:17:45 AM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: Markdsv

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Can I clarify something...doesn't BMW still have the rights (or rather option) for Vettel's service in 2010 or 2011? I can't imagine that Mario would have "sold" Vettel to Toro Rosso. I always thought that it is just a "lending" deal as they always do in F1?

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Sep 15, 2008 12:22:28 PM

Emperor: Veteran; Loc: London & Gothenburg; Posts: 1013, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2006; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

^^
That's correct, BMW still has Vettel on a leech and might sign him in 2010 if he turns out to be a good replacement for Heidfeld or Kubica depending on which one of them will leave the team.

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Quote:
marco stradale said:
It's really amazing how much smack talk there is regarding Kimi.The Ferrari is extremely kind to it's tires and isn't generating any where near as much mechanical grip as some of the other cars.Similar problems plagued Ferrari with the one tire rule,when Schumi would take ages to get heat in the tire and than all of a sudden set fastest laps but be no where.

Massa has said in interviews before,that his driving style is a little bit better than Kimi's when it comes to generating heat in the tyre.

Next GP sees super softs and softs.If the race is dry, i'll bet Mclaren will have tire concerns and Ferrari will fly.

Bravo Vettel,a star of the future !!!!

Thanks for some nice info
I really dont understand how the cars can perform that differently considering FIA regulations and the fact that most teams use so similar technology (Ferrari/McLaren scandal is a pretty good testament to that) that you would think the drivers like Kimi and LH's cars performed equally well, or at least more similarly, in different environments.
So youre saying that a lot of this comes down to the tyre? Seems Ferrari has had the advantage from the getgo, since they were on Bridgestone before the one-tyre rule came into play.
Strange...

Although all the different might look somewhat identical there are some differences in gearbox, engine chassi design, set-up and aerodynamics which makes a difference. Both Mclaren and Ferrari have their weaknesses and strengths. The Mclaren driven by the right driver(i.e Hamilton) work well in rain, while the Ferrari is almost untouchable on engine circuits where the track air temperature is exotic(i.e Massa in Bahrain, Turkey and Valencia). In the end the driver plays a major role as well.

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Sep 15, 2008 3:33:34 PM

marco stradale: Newbie; Loc: South Africa; Posts: 8, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 30, 2004; Reply to: Emperor

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Hi Dr Phil and Emperor,

It is an extremely worrying situation for Ferrari because even they are at a loss as to why the car can't get temperature into it's tires.Kimi has come out and said it's like a "switch",one minute he has [beep] loads of understeer than oversteer and than it just hooks up like it's on rails.Schumi comes out and says it was a good race for Ferrari,given the conditions,as it could have been much worse.Schumi also went on to say "our car is not as good as the Mclarens in these conditions".....so take it for what it's worth but Kimi is not a driver in crisis.

It is amazing that there are such big differences but it has been clearly visible all season.The McLaren loves the harder compound with normal to average temps but eats the softs and super softs,especially when it's a bit hotter.It also cooked it's wets and it's intermediates yesterday.Hamilton's agressive style doesn't help either ie loads of oversteer.

The Ferrari is the exact opposite.Kimi struggles with turn in,as he loves a pointy car and is no where with all the understeer.Massa some how copes better,the guy doesn't even have a style, two laps are seldom the same and he doesn't even hook up corner apexes correctly.....so go figure,maybe the tires get confused and generate more heat ???? LOL

Lets hope Ferrari comes right though because next years regulations emphasise mechanical grip and apparently the slicks are sh%tty to get up to temp !!!

Please excuse any typos

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Sep 15, 2008 3:53:34 PM

Emperor: Veteran; Loc: London & Gothenburg; Posts: 1013, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2006; Reply to: marco stradale

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Kimi is starting to look really bad and seriously needs to focus on getting some decent points. He's behind Kubica in the standings while Heidfeld and Heikki are just a few points behind him. It will be very embarrassing if Kimi won't finish the season in the top three.

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Sep 15, 2008 4:04:00 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Emperor

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

As defending World Champion, Kimi has had a very disappointing season in 2008 so far. However, he couldn't wipe the grin from his face all weekend at Monza. Despite his poor season, he has managed to extend his contract for another year till the end of 2010 on a nice big salary package. Who wouldn't be smiling from ear to ear?

Reminds me of English Premiership footballers who get paid a lot of money whether they win or not. If one gets paid handsomely even if one doesn't perform, one has no incentive to turn things around. If drivers were paid a reasonable salary with the main part of their remuneration determined by their performance, they would have an incentive to compete harder (and not screw up too). At the moment the main thing to incentivise drivers is a 'kick up the backside' to keep one's seat or if one has a genuine chance to win the title. There are plenty of other people in F1 who are simply making up the numbers: Coulthard, Trulli, Barrichello, Button.

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Sep 15, 2008 7:18:41 PM

964C2: Expert; Loc: Dallas, TX , United States; Posts: 1825, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Vettel really handled himself well in the post-race interview....a classy young man.

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Sep 15, 2008 8:01:49 PM

rosso nuvola: Pilot; Loc: Switzerland; Posts: 338, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: 964C2

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

Kimi did the best lap time at the end because the track was driyng ( =more temperature on the tyres...) that is why Ham didn't catch Massa

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Sep 16, 2008 6:40:01 AM

Thoma: Veteran; Loc: Vancouver , Canada; Posts: 855, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 5, 2005; Reply to: rosso nuvola

Re: Strangest starting grid in years.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080915141257.shtml

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Sep 17, 2008 11:09:25 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Thoma

More speculation about Alonso's future

Quite an interesting article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A41052133

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More speculation about Alonso's future

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