Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3 - Page2

Sep 12, 2008 8:34:22 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006

Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

From rennlist.com

''According to the most recent issue of Autoweek (just arrived in the mail today):

1. Facelifted versions of the Turbo, GT2 and GT3 will get the new DFI powerplant (i.e., the A91 unit) (bye-bye to the Hans Metzger M97 unit).

2. The Turbo and GT2 get a 3.6, with 500hp and 550hp (respectively).

3. The new GT3, however, will get a 3.8 with about 430hp.

4. According to the article, "To ensure that it retains its highly strung character, Porsche sources confirm, the A91 in the GT3 will get a number of internal revisions, including lightweight pistons and other unique components, all aimed at reducing reciprocating masses and increasing power."

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Sep 12, 2008 9:04:38 AM

kashmir: Senior; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 596, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 18, 2004; Reply to: AUM

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

....I think (and heard) that all of them (turbos + GT3s) will get a 3.6 block.

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Sep 12, 2008 9:32:44 AM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: kashmir

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Pardon me if I have not kept up with 997 news/engine news.

Is this A91 unit an evolution of the GT1 w/ true dry sump or is Porsche taking the cheapo route with ALL their cars now.

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Sep 12, 2008 9:41:46 AM

GT: Senior; Loc: london , United Kingdom; Posts: 618, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 14, 2006; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

The latter..

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Sep 12, 2008 9:55:13 AM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: GT

Sep 12, 2008 12:12:08 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

New safety and emmisions regulations will mean all future sports cars are in some way compromized designs.

So get them while they are hot!!

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Sep 12, 2008 4:01:16 PM

roadtrip: Veteran; Loc: new mexico, usa; Posts: 1172, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2006; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

any info as to when production of these " new and improved " cars will begin...bet they wont give much notice, more like oh lucky you....get em while you can these cars are keepers

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Sep 12, 2008 4:41:50 PM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: roadtrip

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Well if Porsche wants to keep its homologation for the current RSR, it needs to produce a road going 911 with a 4L engine.(unless they got a waiver from the ACO, which as far as I know they did not.)

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Sep 12, 2008 4:42:30 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
Alex_997TT said:
New safety [edited] regulations will mean all future sports cars are in some way compromized designs.

Un-freeking-real. How many lives will _actually_ be saved by making car bodys look like airbags?

Who comes up with this cr*p?

Life is risky. Look both ways when you cross the street. Be responsible for your own pedestrian safety.

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Sep 12, 2008 4:46:04 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
MMD said:
Who comes up with this cr*p?

Mainly those who are trying to justify their own jobs and make changes for changes-sake.

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Sep 12, 2008 5:00:17 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
Spyderidol said:
Well if Porsche wants to keep its homologation for the current RSR, it needs to produce a road going 911 with a 4L engine.(unless they got a waiver from the ACO, which as far as I know they did not.)

The road-going GT3 RS is the homologation car, so maybe keep your eye on that model...

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Sep 12, 2008 6:23:10 PM

993S: Senior; Loc: Europe; Posts: 694, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 24, 2006; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
Moogle said:
Is this A91 unit an evolution of the GT1 w/ true dry sump or is Porsche taking the cheapo route with ALL their cars now.

The A91 is a complete new engine. Less components, stronger and lighter. In my opinion not a "cheap route", just normal progress.

GT3 RS will have of course same engine as GT3.

The info I got is all GT3 will have 3.6.

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Sep 12, 2008 6:56:24 PM

thuggy: Veteran; Loc: PA & CA , United States; Posts: 834, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 22, 2006; Reply to: 993S

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
993S said:
Quote:
Moogle said:
Is this A91 unit an evolution of the GT1 w/ true dry sump or is Porsche taking the cheapo route with ALL their cars now.

The A91 is a complete new engine. Less components, stronger and lighter. In my opinion not a "cheap route", just normal progress.

GT3 RS will have of course same engine as GT3.

The info I got is all GT3 will have 3.6.

How do we know its stronger yet?

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Sep 13, 2008 2:53:37 AM

hog: Junior; Loc: Cornwall, UK.; Posts: 71, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: thuggy

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Last few GT2's with the 'old' engine are being built in Oct/Nov. Mine will be one of them.
These cars will have the new PCM 3 but not the new LED lights.

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Sep 13, 2008 6:42:54 AM

WR: Senior; Loc: Taipei , Taiwan; Posts: 637, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 26, 2005; Reply to: hog

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

don't know why they won't switch to 3.8???

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Sep 13, 2008 11:18:51 AM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: hog

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
hog said:
Last few GT2's with the 'old' engine are being built in Oct/Nov. Mine will be one of them.
These cars will have the new PCM 3 but not the new LED lights.

Can you expand on your information about these end of year build cars being the last of the Metzgler engined GT2s is the source credible ?

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Sep 13, 2008 2:21:15 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
TB993tt said:
Quote:
hog said:
Last few GT2's with the 'old' engine are being built in Oct/Nov. Mine will be one of them.
These cars will have the new PCM 3 but not the new LED lights.

Can you expand on your information about these end of year build cars being the last of the Metzgler engined GT2s is the source credible ?

I don't think that this info is correct. Based on my sources the GT2 will be built until 2010. This does make sense for a number of reasons:

- the "typical" model cycle for Porsche has been (at least) 3 years recently: 997TT (launch mid-2006, FL mid-2009), GT3 Mk1 (launch March-06m, FL March-09?), 997 (launch Spring-04, FL mid-08), 996GT2 (launch mid-2000, FL mid-2003) >>> 997GT2 (launch Sep-07, FL - if any - Sep-10)
- the x50/turboS is scheduled for early 2010
- the all new 998 will be introduced in fall 2011 (thus, not much time left between potential FL in Sep-10 and launch of 998 - however, the situation was similar when the 996GT2 Mk2 was launched in 2003)

In summary, I would not expect a Mk2 version of the GT2 earlier than 2010. Maybe there won't be any Mk2 at all

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Sep 13, 2008 2:33:51 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
TB993tt said:
Quote:
hog said:
Last few GT2's with the 'old' engine are being built in Oct/Nov. Mine will be one of them.
These cars will have the new PCM 3 but not the new LED lights.

Can you expand on your information about these end of year build cars being the last of the Metzgler engined GT2s is the source credible ?

I don't think that this info is correct. Based on my sources the GT2 will be built until 2010. This does make sense for a number of reasons:

- the "typical" model cycle for Porsche has been (at least) 3 years recently: 997TT (launch mid-2006, FL mid-2009), GT3 Mk1 (launch March-06m, FL March-09?), 997 (launch Spring-04, FL mid-08), 996GT2 (launch mid-2000, FL mid-2003) >>> 997GT2 (launch Sep-07, FL - if any - Sep-10)
- the x50/turboS is scheduled for early 2010
- the all new 998 will be introduced in fall 2011 (thus, not much time left between potential FL in Sep-10 and launch of 998 - however, the situation was similar when the 996GT2 Mk2 was launched in 2003)

In summary, I would not expect a Mk2 version of the GT2 earlier than 2010. Maybe there won't be any Mk2 at all

Markus, do you expect the exterior to stay the same or is it likely for the rear lights to be updated despite the car not being uprated to Mk2 specs?

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Sep 13, 2008 2:39:35 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
TB993tt said:
Quote:
hog said:
Last few GT2's with the 'old' engine are being built in Oct/Nov. Mine will be one of them.
These cars will have the new PCM 3 but not the new LED lights.

Can you expand on your information about these end of year build cars being the last of the Metzgler engined GT2s is the source credible ?

I don't think that this info is correct. Based on my sources the GT2 will be built until 2010. This does make sense for a number of reasons:

- the "typical" model cycle for Porsche has been (at least) 3 years recently: 997TT (launch mid-2006, FL mid-2009), GT3 Mk1 (launch March-06m, FL March-09?), 997 (launch Spring-04, FL mid-08), 996GT2 (launch mid-2000, FL mid-2003) >>> 997GT2 (launch Sep-07, FL - if any - Sep-10)
- the x50/turboS is scheduled for early 2010
- the all new 998 will be introduced in fall 2011 (thus, not much time left between potential FL in Sep-10 and launch of 998 - however, the situation was similar when the 996GT2 Mk2 was launched in 2003)

In summary, I would not expect a Mk2 version of the GT2 earlier than 2010. Maybe there won't be any Mk2 at all

Markus, do you expect the exterior to stay the same or is it likely for the rear lights to be updated despite the car not being uprated to Mk2 specs?

I would rather expect the exterior to stay as is until a complete FL (if any) will be presented

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Sep 13, 2008 2:54:33 PM

hog: Junior; Loc: Cornwall, UK.; Posts: 71, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

I missed out on the GT2 initial UK 'selection' process, despite owning 4 Porsches, 3 of which bought from the same OPC. Its a long story, and maybe one day I will get to tell you the gory details. But I was offered 'one of the last GT2 to be built', along with the engine details as posted.
Do I trust Porsche OPC to tell me the truth, answer is no I do not.
Do I think the new wet sump engine will be reliable, answer is I don't know but what I do know is that if I buy a car with the old engine then I have a huge knowledge base to turn too, on all matters.

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Sep 13, 2008 3:32:33 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: hog

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

hog
You and I have similar stories and I too seem to have been vetted and approved after missing the initial allocation. There seems to be a proviso that the car has to be delivered in 2008 -looking like November build for December delivery (although as you say they will be '09 cars by chassis number) which sounds like it could be Porsche GB trying to hit certain targets

Regardless I am very pleased with how it has turned out and it would be great if our GT2s really were the very last of their kind would it ?

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Sep 13, 2008 4:49:16 PM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: hog

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
hog said:
I missed out on the GT2 initial UK 'selection' process, despite owning 4 Porsches, 3 of which bought from the same OPC. Its a long story, and maybe one day I will get to tell you the gory details. But I was offered 'one of the last GT2 to be built', along with the engine details as posted.
Do I trust Porsche OPC to tell me the truth, answer is no I do not.
Do I think the new wet sump engine will be reliable, answer is I don't know but what I do know is that if I buy a car with the old engine then I have a huge knowledge base to turn too, on all matters.

Something like that with the GT3RS made me stop buying Porsche.

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Sep 14, 2008 4:33:09 AM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

The GT1 engine has been great in its Turbo version and as a race engine, but to me the NA version in the GT3 class has been a disappointment because of RMS problem (search for RMS in www.rennlist.com if you want to see the nightmare). So from a consumer's standpoint, this engine change is a must for the GT3. In fact 4 things about next gen. GT3 will make it an extremely desirable car IMO:

1. RMS hopefully gone.
2. Unsightly taco wing thankfully looks like it might be gone too. Whoever that designs the current wing should be fired on the spot, really.
3. PDK -- How much will this shorten the already great ring time? Plus I am a manual die-hard but I can't help thinking that I will love the uninterrupted power flow.
4. More torque? Current GT3 has too little torque.

Of course, if you are used to the nuclear powered Turbo, it still won't be enough torque, but at least this would be a step in the right direction.

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Sep 14, 2008 7:09:21 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: cannga

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
cannga said:
The GT1 engine has been great in its Turbo version and as a race engine, but to me the NA version in the GT3 class has been a disappointment because of RMS problem (search for RMS in [url=http://w

The current GT3 actually also uses the GT1 based engine block

I have not heard of RMS problems with the GT3.

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Sep 14, 2008 10:44:52 AM

BiTurbo: Rennteam Master; Loc: X , United States; Posts: 3252, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

MK2 GT2 will have 350hp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teGfhTIniDY

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Sep 14, 2008 10:58:39 AM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: BiTurbo

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
BiTurbo said:
MK2 GT2 will have 350hp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teGfhTIniDY

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Sep 14, 2008 5:08:43 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: BiTurbo

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
BiTurbo said:
MK2 GT2 will have 350hp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teGfhTIniDY

350hp = improved fuel efficiency

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Sep 15, 2008 7:48:43 AM

hog: Junior; Loc: Cornwall, UK.; Posts: 71, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
TB993tt said:
hog
You and I have similar stories and I too seem to have been vetted and approved after missing the initial allocation. There seems to be a proviso that the car has to be delivered in 2008 -looking like November build for December delivery (although as you say they will be '09 cars by chassis number) which sounds like it could be Porsche GB trying to hit certain targets

Regardless I am very pleased with how it has turned out and it would be great if our GT2s really were the very last of their kind would it ?

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Sep 15, 2008 8:58:00 AM

LoranTw: Senior; Loc: Canada; Posts: 569, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 14, 2006; Reply to: BiTurbo

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
BiTurbo said:
MK2 GT2 will have 350hp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teGfhTIniDY

The narrator must be suffering from Dyslexia...she obviously meant 530...not 350. Otherwise they wouldn't be quoting 3.7 seconds to 100KPH.

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Sep 15, 2008 2:43:05 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Facelift Turbo, GT2 and GT3

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
cannga said:
The GT1 engine has been great in its Turbo version and as a race engine, but to me the NA version in the GT3 class has been a disappointment because of RMS problem (search for RMS in [url=http://w

The current GT3 actually also uses the GT1 based engine block I have not heard of RMS problems with the GT3.

USA GT3s have an epidemic of RMS to the extent that it is expected by many owners and used as an opportunity to change to the GT3RS lightweight flywheel (with reduced labor costs). Plus the USA cars get a compulsory sunroof.

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