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    Sep 9, 2008 12:21:56 PM

    Gladstone
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    Gladstone
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    If Hamilton were to win the 2008 championship (which I believe he still will do so) without being penalized for an obvious error on his part, that would have been a tainted victory. Now he is going to be able to win it fairly.
    I'm still rooting for Ferrari to hold on to the contructors championship, but wouldn't mind seeing new drivers for next season.

    Sep 9, 2008 12:23:22 PM

    racerx
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    racerx
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    From an impartial observer, i have barely watched f1 lately, and am not a ferrari team fan at all.

    but A penalty for lh here was deserved.

    He did not have to cut the chicane at all, could have followed kimi. then he barely gave the position back.

    An impetuous rookie move by a non rookie.

    Sep 9, 2008 12:40:54 PM

    marco stradale
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    marco stradale
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa





    I am not blaming the Italians. I am blaming the FIA under Mosley, who of course happens to be english. Nothing to do with where someone comes from.

    Also, I respect the opinion of Niki Lauda who is remembered as a 100% Ferrari man (in spite of a title with Mclaren-TAG Porsche) but didn't fear to speak his mind.



    Hi Reginos,

    That wasn't directed at you per say but at those who keep calling foul ie FIA = Ferrari International Assistance etc.

    Niki seems to say alot....not sure if he thinks much before he speaks....we can add Jackie to that too.

    F1 is in a bit of a catch 22,wheel to wheel racing as in MotoGP is incredible but where does one draw the line...it doesn't take much for an F1 missile to go flying into the spectators when wheels touch....

    Sep 9, 2008 1:30:22 PM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: racerx

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    From an impartial observer, i have barely watched f1 lately, and am not a ferrari team fan at all.

    but A penalty for lh here was deserved.

    He did not have to cut the chicane at all, could have followed kimi. then he barely gave the position back.

    An impetuous rookie move by a non rookie.



    racerx, you might be a racer too, but I'd rather take the views of other racers like JYS, Niki Lauda (ex-Ferrari hero),Stirling Moss and H-J Stuck that all disagree with you.

    So it is you and Massa!

    Sep 9, 2008 1:34:28 PM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: marco stradale

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    marco stradale said:




    I am not blaming the Italians. I am blaming the FIA under Mosley, who of course happens to be english. Nothing to do with where someone comes from.

    Also, I respect the opinion of Niki Lauda who is remembered as a 100% Ferrari man (in spite of a title with Mclaren-TAG Porsche) but didn't fear to speak his mind.



    Hi Reginos,

    That wasn't directed at you per say but at those who keep calling foul ie FIA = Ferrari International Assistance etc.

    Niki seems to say alot....not sure if he thinks much before he speaks....we can add Jackie to that too.

    F1 is in a bit of a catch 22,wheel to wheel racing as in MotoGP is incredible but where does one draw the line...it doesn't take much for an F1 missile to go flying into the spectators when wheels touch....



    Yes but on the other hand, making the pinacle of motor racing so clinical results in processional and boring races which are too dependent on pit strategy.

    In lesser categories you see many riskier moves and drivers seem more free to improvise.

    Sep 9, 2008 2:05:12 PM

    cgt
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    cgt
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    We all know the level of dislike between Mosley and McLaren, and one of the chief stewards just happens to be Alan Donelly, who is completely in Max's pocket and will only do what MM wants.

    Sep 9, 2008 2:11:44 PM

    Crash
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    Crash
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    In lesser categories you see many riskier moves and drivers seem more free to improvise.



    1979

    Sep 9, 2008 3:24:04 PM

    cgt
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    cgt
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Good point Crash, imagine if Arnoux and Villeneuve were racing today and either or both were penalised in the same manner?

    Sep 9, 2008 3:47:19 PM

    easy_rider911
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    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: cgt

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    cgt said:
    We all know the level of dislike between Mosley and McLaren, and one of the chief stewards just happens to be Alan Donelly, who is completely in Max's pocket and will only do what MM wants.



    BTW, the BBC states that the 3 race stewards at the Belgian GP who decided to penalise Lewis Hamilton were:

    1) Nicholas Deschaux
    2) Surinder Thatti
    3) Yves Bacquelaine

    Their names are listed here:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7603179.stm

    Sep 9, 2008 4:03:37 PM

    cgt
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    cgt
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Easy you are correct, they were the three specific stewards at the Belgian GP, but Alan Donelly is the one who oversees the three of them (and the three stewards at every Grand Prix).

    "The three stewards, Nicholas Deschaux, Yves Bacquelaine and Surinder Thatti, who are guided this season by a new 'stewards' adviser' Alan Donnelly, a former MEP whose company work with the FIA"

    During the Mosley sex scandal, Donnelly was one of MM's most vociferous supporters.

    Sep 9, 2008 4:07:27 PM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: cgt

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    cgt said:
    During the Mosley sex scandal, Donnelly was one of MM's most vociferous supporters.



    Perhaps, Donnely frequents that basement appartment too!

    Sep 9, 2008 4:59:59 PM

    YorkshireExpat
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    YorkshireExpat
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    McLaren boss Ron Dennis revealed to ITV Sport after the race that the team had checked with FIA race director Charlie Whiting that Hamilton had conformed to the rules, which require any advantage gained by short-cutting the course to be promptly rectified.

    "Inevitably, we wanted to know whether that was deemed to be a correction so we checked with Charlie," Dennis told ITV Sport's Ted Kravitz.

    "Of course Charlie can only give an opinion because he's not the stewards, but he gave the opinion that we had complied properly to the regulations ."

    In a statement released on Tuesday, Whitmarsh said the team was in fact given two separate assurances that Hamilton had behaved correctly - and that, had it not been given the thumbs-up, it would have told its driver to let Raikkonen back through.

    "From the pit wall, we then asked Race Control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was 'okay'," said Whitmarsh.

    "If Race Control had instead expressed any concern regarding Lewis's actions at that time, we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to repass for a second time."



    Source: http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43885

    Sep 9, 2008 5:11:35 PM

    ResB Offline
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    ResB
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    Reply to: YorkshireExpat

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    YorkshireExpat said:
    Quote:
    McLaren boss Ron Dennis revealed to ITV Sport after the race that the team had checked with FIA race director Charlie Whiting that Hamilton had conformed to the rules, which require any advantage gained by short-cutting the course to be promptly rectified.

    "Inevitably, we wanted to know whether that was deemed to be a correction so we checked with Charlie," Dennis told ITV Sport's Ted Kravitz.

    "Of course Charlie can only give an opinion because he's not the stewards, but he gave the opinion that we had complied properly to the regulations ."

    In a statement released on Tuesday, Whitmarsh said the team was in fact given two separate assurances that Hamilton had behaved correctly - and that, had it not been given the thumbs-up, it would have told its driver to let Raikkonen back through.

    "From the pit wall, we then asked Race Control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was 'okay'," said Whitmarsh.

    "If Race Control had instead expressed any concern regarding Lewis's actions at that time, we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to repass for a second time."



    Source: http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43885



    What a complete farce this is turning into ...

    Sep 9, 2008 5:22:06 PM

    Shakal
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    Shakal
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    Reply to: cgt

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    cgt said:
    Good point Crash, imagine if Arnoux and Villeneuve were racing today and either or both were penalised in the same manner?



    FIA would sent them to prison

    Sep 9, 2008 8:22:05 PM

    ezzie
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    ezzie
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    Reply to: Dr. Phil

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    NEWS: Massa pours more gasoline on the fire:
    http://edition.cnn.com/2008/SPORT/09/09/felipe.massa.lewis.hamilton/index.html?section=cnn_latest

    McLaren seem to give up their protest:
    http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080909103423.shtml



    I trust the judgements of Lauda, Stuck, Moss and Stewart more than the stewards. Stewart's call for professional stewards is the way to go.

    Sep 9, 2008 9:03:14 PM

    spudgun
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    Reply to: Shakal

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    Shakal said:
    Quote:
    cgt said:
    Good point Crash, imagine if Arnoux and Villeneuve were racing today and either or both were penalised in the same manner?



    FIA would sent them to prison

    Sep 10, 2008 3:55:44 AM

    Spyderidol
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    Reply to: Shakal

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    ...or at least have them whipped!

    Sep 10, 2008 9:45:59 AM

    Emperor
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    Reply to: Spyderidol

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Hey guys. Check this video out. Shumi and De la Rosa in 2005. Shumi cut the chicane but no penalty.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM

    Sep 10, 2008 9:55:45 AM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    McLaren appealed

    http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=43884

    Sep 10, 2008 1:06:23 PM

    ResB Offline
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    ResB
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    Emperor said:
    Hey guys. Check this video out. Shumi and De la Rosa in 2005. Shumi cut the chicane but no penalty.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM



    That's exactly the same and MS didn't let him by. lol Comedy.

    Sep 10, 2008 2:07:00 PM

    Jeannot
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    Jeannot
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    Reply to: Spyderidol

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    Spyderidol said:
    ...or at least have them whipped!



    you mean by Mosley HIMSELF?

    Sep 10, 2008 6:37:01 PM

    Shakal
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    Shakal
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    Reply to: Jeannot

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    This petition will be send to FIA:

    http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html

    Over 42 000 people has already signed ...

    Sep 10, 2008 10:01:41 PM

    Emperor
    Veteran
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    Reply to: ResB

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    ResB said:
    Quote:
    Emperor said:
    Hey guys. Check this video out. Shumi and De la Rosa in 2005. Shumi cut the chicane but no penalty.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM



    That's exactly the same and MS didn't let him by. lol Comedy.



    Mmmm it clearly show how pro Ferrari FIA are.

    Sep 10, 2008 11:02:14 PM

    ezzie
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    ezzie
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Good find. Let's just hope all this attention will shame the FIA to reverse the decision.

    Sep 11, 2008 10:41:32 AM

    rosso nuvola
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    Reply to: ezzie

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    I used to thing that Alonso was a arrogant son of a B, but i was wrong he is actually ok , i mean he is what he is , he frontal in what he says and does ...

    Now HAMilton prentends to be this nice kid , but he actulaly is just arrogant in thinking he is the only smart guy in this planet... " i was hoping for the rain becausa i know how to deal with it" " Kimi pushed me out"

    http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNN5W_B-Zk

    Sep 11, 2008 10:59:25 AM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: rosso nuvola

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    rosso nuvola said:
    I used to thing that Alonso was a arrogant son of a B, but i was wrong he is actually ok , i mean he is what he is , he frontal in what he says and does ...

    Now HAMilton prentends to be this nice kid , but he actulaly is just arrogant in thinking he is the only smart guy in this planet... " i was hoping for the rain becausa i know how to deal with it" " Kimi pushed me out"

    http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNN5W_B-Zk





    Even if HAM was arrogant, and IMO he is not, he has the ability to match with an excellent record in F3, GP2 and now F1.

    Massa's version of events both in Valencia and Spa was IMO very arrogant, especially by someone who wasn't directly involved in the latter incident.

    Such arrogance coming from a very mediocre driver who got a seat with the best(?) team just because his manager happened to be Jean Todt's son, is too hard to bear!

    Sep 11, 2008 3:53:15 PM

    gangajas
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    gangajas
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    SlvSurfer said:
    Quote:
    marco stradale said:
    Such a pitty there wasn't a tractor there to pick up Raikkonen and complete the race with him...It would have been quicker than the F1 cars in those conditions....... I really like Lewis but this constent conspiracy theory sh$t is getting a bit much.....If Lewis kept his head, he would have comfortably had Raikkonen later on.



    Tractor? Like the one Hamilton used to get out of the sand trap, oh right! That one! But I'm sure they reserved it for him again.



    Let's not be fanatical about things!
    Even if for argument's sake,what happened with the "tractor" was wrong, it doesn't justify anyone to do a bigger mistake last Sunday. Two wrongs don't do one right.

    It's like a football referee that wrongly disallows a goal as offside and then awards a penalty to make even. Both actions are wrong!



    And that shows that those ridiculous conspiracy theories are just plain wrong.

    Sep 11, 2008 4:21:53 PM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: gangajas

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    SlvSurfer said:
    Quote:
    marco stradale said:
    Such a pitty there wasn't a tractor there to pick up Raikkonen and complete the race with him...It would have been quicker than the F1 cars in those conditions....... I really like Lewis but this constent conspiracy theory sh$t is getting a bit much.....If Lewis kept his head, he would have comfortably had Raikkonen later on.



    Tractor? Like the one Hamilton used to get out of the sand trap, oh right! That one! But I'm sure they reserved it for him again.



    Let's not be fanatical about things!
    Even if for argument's sake,what happened with the "tractor" was wrong, it doesn't justify anyone to do a bigger mistake last Sunday. Two wrongs don't do one right.

    It's like a football referee that wrongly disallows a goal as offside and then awards a penalty to make even. Both actions are wrong!



    And that shows that those ridiculous conspiracy theories are just plain wrong.



    Favouritism is for sure and obvious! Like the treatment Real Madrid and Barcelona get in spanish football for example

    Conspiracy is hard to prove but it shouldn't be ruled out!

    Sep 11, 2008 6:22:37 PM

    Misha011
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    Mercedes , please please , do take-over and put this team and both drivers in proper order .

    Sep 12, 2008 6:32:43 AM

    WAY
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    Reply to: Misha011

    Re: Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa

    The current F1 drivers have spoken. Everyone is saying that FIA is correct and Lewis would not have been able to overtake Kimi in that lap if it wasn't for the incident. So the only people who disagrees are former drivers. Now who do you think is right, those on the track at that time or people who last drove an F1 car 20-30 years ago?????
     
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