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    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Emperor said:... We've seen that Heikki although a good driver, isn't cut out to drive a top car.



    Perhaps Heikki does not have a top car. Have you heard of team's orders?

    Barrichelo didn't have a top car either in MS' time. Ferrari had "team orders"then too.

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    ezzie said:
    Ferrari has been inconsistent this year and were somewhat behind in the championship last year before McLaren was disqualified. The main reason for their success in recent years has been the formidable combination of Schumacher, Ross Brawn and Jean Todt. Without these men, they have shown fallibility.



    Very good point. I totally agree.
    They won a lot of races on strategy alone. Seems now they lose a lot the same way.

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    John H said:
    Would really like to see Button in the 2nd McLaren... that would be a truly British 'dreamteam'....apart trom the German engine of course..

    Button's too good a driver to be languishing at the back of the grid.



    Speaking of Button. What a strange move - or lack thereof - during SC period, when backmarkers were allowed to overtake the leaders to rejoin at the back, and Button stayed behind...
    Looked like a frack-up from Honda..?

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Emperor said:
    What a bunch or bullocks. Hamilton has had it tough this season and have thought incredibly hard for all his victories. Safety car was deployed in Australia, Monaco, Silverstone and now in Hockenheim. Heck the SC came out in Canada and led to his collision with Kimi. So stop making it seem like Hamilton has cruised his Benz to victory in an easy manner. Just look at hos hard he worked for a podium finish in Barcelona during the period when the F2008 was untouchable.


    Hamilton is a fighter, a very determined driver and have demonstrated more versatility in driving more than any other driver on the grid. I've barely seen Massa and Kimi do any overtakings. Everytime they've won it's been an easy parade from start to finish.

    Maclaren are delighted to have Hamilton as a driver because he does what any team wants a top driver to do, which is take full advantage of the car. We've seen that Heikki although a good driver, isn't cut out to drive a top car.



    Like I said:
    "I am sure that every blue-eyed, British Hamilton fan will lynch me for this.."

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Hey Doc, Maybe Hamilton is the new 'master of going faster'.
    Enjoy or forgive me and blame it on senility.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMm4bhs6GYY

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote from F1.com:
    Hamilton: "I nailed it this afternoon: when the team told me I had to build a 23-second gap in just seven laps".

    23 seconds in 7 laps = 3.3 seconds faster than the rest pr. lap.
    Yeah, that is very possible just by driving well. LOL!



    His whole wording was that indeed the team told him to build a lead of 23 secs. in 7 laps and that it was impossible, I am pretty sure it is what he said and it must be quite easy to find it.

    It was a fantastic driving of Lewis Hamilton, even though Mclaren once again screwed up the race strategy.
    After a difficult start of the season he seemed to be fully focused again now and to have got rid of his team-mate treat.

    He is the man of the race IMHO, together with Sebastien Vettel.

    Massa. though not one of the greatest in the likes of Hamilton/Alonso/Raikhonen IMHO, has been a strong and quite consistent performer this year excepting his totally inaceptable race in Silverstone. With hindsight I would even say the same refering to his 2.5-year tenure at Maranello.

    I must say I have been quite disappointed by Kimi and Fernando showing for the last 3 races.
    Kimi is clearly not the true successor of M. Schumacher, in fact he does not show this year the brillance one expects from a world-champion. This w.e. he said he could not find the optimal set-up but it is not an excuse, he must be able to correctly set up his car by now and for e.g. I did not often heard this kind of declaration from M. Schumacher.
    As for Fernando, sure he does not drive one of the fastest cars and he shows amazing pace in qualifying, nevertheless he makes far too many mistakes for someone with his credentials:
    - several stupide mistakes in Monaco, particularly his overtaking move against Heidfeld
    - in Montreal hit the wall
    - in Hockenheim spinned.

    When I see their relatively "average" showing and compare with the Shumacher's area when he was in a league of its own, I wonder if it is due to the fact that we have a group of "only" good leading drivers or that we do not have a one and only driver above the others but several ones?

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    Emperor said:
    What a bunch or bullocks. Hamilton has had it tough this season and have thought incredibly hard for all his victories. Safety car was deployed in Australia, Monaco, Silverstone and now in Hockenheim. Heck the SC came out in Canada and led to his collision with Kimi. So stop making it seem like Hamilton has cruised his Benz to victory in an easy manner. Just look at hos hard he worked for a podium finish in Barcelona during the period when the F2008 was untouchable.


    Hamilton is a fighter, a very determined driver and have demonstrated more versatility in driving more than any other driver on the grid. I've barely seen Massa and Kimi do any overtakings. Everytime they've won it's been an easy parade from start to finish.

    Maclaren are delighted to have Hamilton as a driver because he does what any team wants a top driver to do, which is take full advantage of the car. We've seen that Heikki although a good driver, isn't cut out to drive a top car.



    Like I said:
    "I am sure that every blue-eyed, British Hamilton fan will lynch me for this.."



    I'm not British and neither am I a Hamilton fan. I'm a Mclaren fan.

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Kimi knocking over a kid:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGvoGqB-j_U

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Hamilton had a great drive, I would call it a Schumacher drive (Micheal not Ralf --> smile), fantastic race !!!

    Am I right to assume that there was a bit of empathy with Massa not overtaking Nelson P jnr?

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    The reason the likes of Massa and Alonso making more mistakes this year is probably more down to the lack of traction control this year than anything else.

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    ezzie said:
    The reason the likes of Massa and Alonso making more mistakes this year is probably more down to the lack of traction control this year than anything else.



    Hi Ezzie,

    I would say frustration, especially with Alonzo (so sad )

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Right on Ezzie!
    And again, MS was better than other drivers in a car with no TC...

    Wasn't him who tunned the TC settings in Spain for Massa and Kimi, last autumn?

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    How things turn in F1. A couple of races ago I was sure Kimi and Massa were set to dominate, with Hamilton seemingly lacking focus and making silly mistakes. Now Lewis seems to have regained his composure and blistering speed. I still have a slight worry about his over-exuberance sometimes but on present form he is driving at a level far above anyone else. I disagree with Dr Phil, I think the Ferrari is still a better package overall in terms of speed, but the drivers are not extracting the best from the car. By contrast, Lewis seems totally at one with his car, look at the way he corners, he seems to have total confidence in his car.

    Alonso is definitely getting frustrated by the Renault package. While I have said many times I do not like him as a person, it is a shame to see such a talented driver in such a bad car. He is being made to look ordinary as he cannot show his talent and as a result is getting frustrated and over driving and making mistakes.

    Kubica and BMW, very disappointing. After their form a few races ago they seem to have fallen off the pace of development and are being made to look ordnary.

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Ziggy said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote from F1.com:
    Hamilton: "I nailed it this afternoon: when the team told me I had to build a 23-second gap in just seven laps".

    23 seconds in 7 laps = 3.3 seconds faster than the rest pr. lap.
    Yeah, that is very possible just by driving well. LOL!



    His whole wording was that indeed the team told him to build a lead of 23 secs. in 7 laps and that it was impossible, I am pretty sure it is what he said and it must be quite easy to find it.



    It WAS easy to find.
    My post was an exact quote of Hamiltons remark from F1.com.
    This is why I claim somthing is wrong, if you can "nail" a 23 seconds lead in 7 laps. Noone takes 3.3 secs PER LAP from the competition without something being wrong.
    ...or perhaps Hamilton simply exaggerated his own achievement. Who knows.

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Perhaps F1.com took it out of context.
    At any rate that was the gap he would have needed to still be in the lead after his last pit stop. That did not happen.
    He came out fourth after his last pit.
    He never built up 3.3 secs per lap.

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    Ziggy said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote from F1.com:
    Hamilton: "I nailed it this afternoon: when the team told me I had to build a 23-second gap in just seven laps".

    23 seconds in 7 laps = 3.3 seconds faster than the rest pr. lap.
    Yeah, that is very possible just by driving well. LOL!



    His whole wording was that indeed the team told him to build a lead of 23 secs. in 7 laps and that it was impossible, I am pretty sure it is what he said and it must be quite easy to find it.



    It WAS easy to find.
    My post was an exact quote of Hamiltons remark from F1.com.
    This is why I claim somthing is wrong, if you can "nail" a 23 seconds lead in 7 laps. Noone takes 3.3 secs PER LAP from the competition without something being wrong.
    ...or perhaps Hamilton simply exaggerated his own achievement. Who knows.



    IMO McLaren wouldn't risk playing dirty, even if this was technically feasible given that they are under scrutiny, because if caught they would be forced to shut down the shop. Last year's fine was huge. Imagine what could be imposed if caught again.

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Gladstone said:
    Perhaps F1.com took it out of context.
    At any rate that was the gap he would have needed to still be in the lead after his last pit stop. That did not happen.
    He came out fourth after his last pit.
    He never built up 3.3 secs per lap.



    His remark happened in one, single sentence. Doesnt seem like they edited anything. Why would they? Perhaps LH was simply exaggerating....?

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Indeed that's what he said, though his meaning was that he was 'told' he needed to make up 23 seconds gap in 7 laps. In the end he made around 15 seconds in those 7 laps, 4 of which came from the restart alone, so in effect, 11 seconds in 7 laps.

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    I looked for the F1.com quote in the post race press conference. Didn't find it, but maybe they got a personal interview?
    This is pretty much how I remember Lewis's comments (but I still look forward to frying him and his mouth another day).

    Lewis, on behalf of all race fans we have to thank you for making that such an exciting race by not coming in with the safety car. You gave yourself so much work to do in the latter stages of the race.
    Lewis Hamilton: "Well, thank you. I didn't plan on doing that. I would have much preferred an easy comfortable afternoon out in front. But it didn't work that way. We had got off to a really good start. We had two very comfortable, two very decent stints and the team opted for me to stay out. I guess they thought I could pull out a gap but it was a 23 second gap I needed and I only had seven laps or something, so I don't know how that worked out.

    "I kind of understood and I just kept pushing. I was over the limit, pushing and pushing trying to get the gap but I came out behind Heikki. I have to say a big thank you to Heikki, he was a great teammate. He didn't put up a huge fight and saw that I was quicker and enabled me to get past quicker. And so a big thank you to him. I was able to pull it off. I had good tyres. I guess it was exciting for him and it was exciting for me."

    I take it there was not much discussion between you and the team about the decision?
    LH: Not really no. I said 'you sure about this' and they said 'fine'. But we all have decisions and opinions on certain things and for sure we will learn from this one and move onto the next race. But still we had the best car. The quickest car this weekend and we came out on top. That's due to a lot of hard work from all the guys here. The team is fantastic, here and back home and also in Germany. They have all done a phenomenal job.

    And talk about those two great passes on Nelson and Felipe.
    LH: With Felipe I saw that I was a lot quicker than him. I was told I was a second quicker than him at the time, so I just tried to keep up the pace. Obviously I was on the early few laps with my tyres and I knew I only had a small window to get past him before they began to grain and before they would slide around. I had to push to get as close to him as possible but the great thing about this track is that you can follow other people. Or so I found.

    So I was able to get quite close through the last two corners, follow him all the way down to turn two and slipstream him. But again towards the end of the straight he sort of matched my speed and I found it difficult to get past, so I just had to do it on the brakes. He gave me plenty of room. I think it was quite a good battle. It was fun. I think for Nelson, I thought my work was done but they said 'you still have to get past Nelson.' I was thinking 'okay, I've just worked my backside off but that's fine'. Again he put on a good battle but again it was very fair.

    AND LATER IN THE PRESS CONFERENCE
    Just now, you also said you needed around a 23s lead before your second stop but you had a 13.7s lead before you came in.
    LH: Yeah, I was told that I needed a 23s lead, so I kind of knew that it was impossible in the short period of time that I had unless I was three seconds a lap faster or something. I just did the best job I could. I nailed it. I really got on. I was pushing even more than I was in the first stint. I was just trying to make that gap. I had a nice clean space, no one to cause me any troubles and we weren't able to do it, we just missed it.

    We got a few seconds out of it but we just missed it, but nevertheless the great thing was that the team was still very positive. They came across on the radio and said 'don't worry, we can still do it.' And you know that's great, to see the team so positive and so enthusiastic and I think that enabled me to go and go for the win.


    Well Doc, as conspiracy theories go; I am a big fan: but this one doesn't have enough believablilty to get any traction.
    Did you lose any money on this race?

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Regardless of Hamilton's merits, no one deserved the win more yesterday. He qualified on pole and had built up a lead during the first half of the race. He compensated for the team not calling him in with the others, then overtook one of his main championship rivals on his way to regain the lead. He may have had the best car but he did drive it flawlessly while his main rivals made mistakes.

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    ezzie said:
    Indeed that's what he said, though his meaning was that he was 'told' he needed to make up 23 seconds gap in 7 laps. In the end he made around 15 seconds in those 7 laps, 4 of which came from the restart alone, so in effect, 11 seconds in 7 laps.



    That could be quite right. The fact is he said "I nailed it."
    I.e. "I did what they wanted me to do".
    Here is the link: (selected driver quotes)
    http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/7/8126.html

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    ezzie said:
    Regardless of Hamilton's merits, no one deserved the win more yesterday. He qualified on pole and had built up a lead during the first half of the race. He compensated for the team not calling him in with the others, then overtook one of his main championship rivals on his way to regain the lead. He may have had the best car but he did drive it flawlessly while his main rivals made mistakes.



    Hi Ezzie,

    You are spot-on again my friend !!!!, fully agree.

    Cheers,

    Mark

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    ezzie said:
    Indeed that's what he said, though his meaning was that he was 'told' he needed to make up 23 seconds gap in 7 laps. In the end he made around 15 seconds in those 7 laps, 4 of which came from the restart alone, so in effect, 11 seconds in 7 laps.



    That could be quite right. The fact is he said "I nailed it."
    I.e. "I did what they wanted me to do".
    Here is the link: (selected driver quotes)
    http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/7/8126.html



    How about a traction control that erases itself from the computers after the race ? On the other hand I must say what P..sis Massa & the rest. Hamilton takes the right lane in the same corner and pushes everybody out in the following...Schumi,Prost,Senna,Mansell,Hill,Villeneuve would have knocked him out of the race - tough luck. I do not understand why everbody moves aside when Hamilton comes close...

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    ADias said:

    Notice his Piquet overtaking - totally reckless. In the old days he would have been penalized. These days anything goes in the F1 circus. Not much of a Sport anymore.



    As they say in f1 you can do what ever you want as long as you win the race, if not they will come after you. So it is not surprise for me.

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    throt said:
    Fantastic drive by Hamilton . MS retired just at the right time ....



    What? Schumacher never lost 17 points advantage in the last 3 races of the championship, and the title! So there is no comparison whatsoever!! And before starting to compare this guy with the greatest he still needs to win one championship!

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Ziggy said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote from F1.com:
    Hamilton: "I nailed it this afternoon: when the team told me I had to build a 23-second gap in just seven laps".

    23 seconds in 7 laps = 3.3 seconds faster than the rest pr. lap.
    Yeah, that is very possible just by driving well. LOL!



    His whole wording was that indeed the team told him to build a lead of 23 secs. in 7 laps and that it was impossible, I am pretty sure it is what he said and it must be quite easy to find it.

    It was a fantastic driving of Lewis Hamilton, even though Mclaren once again screwed up the race strategy.
    After a difficult start of the season he seemed to be fully focused again now and to have got rid of his team-mate treat.

    He is the man of the race IMHO, together with Sebastien Vettel.

    Massa. though not one of the greatest in the likes of Hamilton/Alonso/Raikhonen IMHO, has been a strong and quite consistent performer this year excepting his totally inaceptable race in Silverstone. With hindsight I would even say the same refering to his 2.5-year tenure at Maranello.

    I must say I have been quite disappointed by Kimi and Fernando showing for the last 3 races.
    Kimi is clearly not the true successor of M. Schumacher, in fact he does not show this year the brillance one expects from a world-champion. This w.e. he said he could not find the optimal set-up but it is not an excuse, he must be able to correctly set up his car by now and for e.g. I did not often heard this kind of declaration from M. Schumacher.
    As for Fernando, sure he does not drive one of the fastest cars and he shows amazing pace in qualifying, nevertheless he makes far too many mistakes for someone with his credentials:
    - several stupide mistakes in Monaco, particularly his overtaking move against Heidfeld
    - in Montreal hit the wall
    - in Hockenheim spinned.

    When I see their relatively "average" showing and compare with the Shumacher's area when he was in a league of its own, I wonder if it is due to the fact that we have a group of "only" good leading drivers or that we do not have a one and only driver above the others but several ones?



    If you want to put the R28 in the points zone you should drive over the limits all the race, This R28 is very unestable when fueled up to the top and this fact makes the really difficult to handle.
    We all know that Fernando in a red car would achieve the crown this year. Massa in Silverstone looked as a novice and what to say about Kimi...it seems he is messed up of racing...

    Re: German F1 Grand Prix

    It is a tough season for Alonso. His effort doesn't pay off, neither in position nor in points. I do not think one appreciates the effort and skill he puts into his races this year since nobody sees the results. There is a bunch of fast guys out on the track, I personally include Hamilton, Vettel or Massa in this lineup. However they all have a rather inconsistent performance in qualifying and race. Even more astonishing are Raikkonen's and Kovalainen's performance, both very fast and skilled but lack the chances to compete on a similar consistent level as their rivals resp. teammates.

    I get the feeling that today's F1 cars are, as are the current DTM racers, strongly affected by slight changes in conditions. These modern cars are all about efficiency, primarily in terms of suspension setup and foremost aerodynamics and less about conceptual or technological advantages over the competition as it used to be even back in the 80ies. As an assumption, the ban of modern driving aids and quite a huge amount of technological advancements (flexible wings, very rigid aerodynamic regulations) make the sport less thrilling for chassis manufacturers and teams. Ron Dennis once said, at Newey's dismissal, that it wouldn't be the individual striking head that makes a difference in F1 racing today but the army of engineers and their abilities to continue development in a decentralized fashion. Therefore it shouldn't come as a surprise that teams as McLaren or Ferrari have an almost uncatchable lead in chassis development over their rivals. So many engineers have not lived up to their expectations in recent seasons since no further revelations seem to be possible. It seems to be the case, as said above, as much in DTM racing where no additional manufacturer is willing to get into the ring, the gained knowledge and advantages by both current manufacturers (Audi & MB) is simply not possible to obtain without huge investments.

    I sincerly hope that conditions will change in F1 for 2009 and conceptual knowledge is reset to a certain extend. I do not think that Renault will further develop the current car, main focus for many competitors lagging behind must be the upcoming season.

     
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