Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Should I stay or should I go? - Page1

Aug 21, 2004 5:43:51 AM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Quote:
nberry said:

Whether you like or not many people will look at the 997 as being nothing more than an updated 993 a 10 year old car. AND that is precisely what it is.

BTW the 360 is not a high maintenance vehicle. If compared to a 996 out of warranty it probably would cost much less.

Why would the 997 be more of an updated 993 than the 996 since what's under the skin continues to progress? It's a beautiful and stunning car, very modern and quick. Try and keep up with the Carrera S in a 360. BTW how on earth did you come to the conclusion that a 360 is a lower maintenance vehicle than a 996? Even if it didn't break more (which I can't imagine that it doesn't) aren't the labor costs around double what they are on a Porsche? How many miles do you have on your Ferrari? Must not be many since you constantly brag about its resale value. What's the point of a car you don't drive? You should possibility remove the drivetrain entirely and store the body as a museum piece. Less maintenance and less weight that way.

Next
Threads

Aug 21, 2004 8:56:37 AM

dedam: Pilot; Loc: Holland , United States; Posts: 464, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 27, 2002; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Quote:
Ferdie said:
Dedam,

why don't you just keep the car? How many KMs do you have on the clock by now?

If you want to we can switch cars - mine is way more comfortable and it is even exclusive!

Which direction from Zandvoort? Haarlem?

South of Zandvoort a toeristplace called Noordwijk
60000km on the speedo.

Next
Threads

Aug 21, 2004 3:40:05 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Whether you like or not many people will look at the 997 as being nothing more than an updated 993 a 10 year old car. AND that is precisely what it is.

If you're right with your statement (which I tried to ignore because you sound like a virgin talking about sex ), this would put Ferrari to shame. How can a 10 year old car outrun almost every current Ferrari model?
Oh forgot, Fiat. Have you ever wondered why Italians prefer Porsche over Ferrari? Do you know what a Fiat is, Nick?!

But to on a more "intellectual" level: how can you comment on a car you never saw in person and you never drove?
Honestly Nick, a while ago I thought you're just enjoying teasing Porsche owners but the more I think and analyze your posts, the more I come to the conclusion that it must be something pathological from a medical point of view.

The 993 and 997 don't have anything in common, the body looks completely different (talking about seing the 997 live) and the only thing both cars might have in common is the flat-six design engine (not the engine itself) and the rear wheel drive. Maybe the sound too.
Your comments are ridiculous because they're founded on your weird personal understanding that a car has always to have a completely new spectacular design.
But the success of the 911 is based on continuity, this is the last of a few of "classic" cars which made it to the 21st century. And furthermore, the 911 is a car which has been somehow socially "accepted", especially over here in Germany and Europe, something very important to people who don't live in Beverly Hills and who have to be cautious not to show off too much to avoid provoking customers and other people. Not to speak about the great daily driver capabilities due to reliability and driveability.

You've made your point, you're looking for looks and not performance, we already understood that. You don't have to repeat the same thing again and again just using different words and commentaries.
You don't like the 911? So what? I'm not sure I like you and do you see me bragging and talking about you all day long, day after day, week after week? Get a life, Nick. You have a serious problem and we won't accept this provoking behaviour anymore.

You had your first and second warning shots, the third one won't miss. Promise.

The retired designed of Porsche has in effect admitted that despite all the evolutionary pronouncements about the 996 the car was basically a fraud (my term). The engineers could not do what they wanted because of cost issues and interference from upper management.

He now claims that the 997 is returning to the true Porsche heritage of the 993. Yes the 997 is build upon the 993 whether you want to admit it. To say you have to see it in person to appreciate the differences rings hollow.

Regarding my negative posts how am I different from you in your postitve posts? If this site is designed to be a love fest for Porsche so be it. Its your site and you set the rules.

Next
Threads

Aug 21, 2004 4:54:39 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: dedam

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Thanks Dedam!

Been a while since beeing in Noordwijk myself.

How much km can someone go on a GT3 engine? I suspect the turbo might be stressed higher due to forced induction, but it has a much lower rev limit, doesn't it?

Next
Threads

Aug 21, 2004 5:15:18 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Quote:
nberry said:
...

The retired designed of Porsche has in effect admitted that despite all the evolutionary pronouncements about the 996 the car was basically a fraud (my term). The engineers could not do what they wanted because of cost issues and interference from upper management.

He now claims that the 997 is returning to the true Porsche heritage of the 993. Yes the 997 is build upon the 993 whether you want to admit it. To say you have to see it in person to appreciate the differences rings hollow.

Regarding my negative posts how am I different from you in your postitve posts? If this site is designed to be a love fest for Porsche so be it. Its your site and you set the rules.

Does ANYBODY care what he is saying? Nick, I honestly feel pity for you. How can someone tell so much bulls#*t?
Are you on some kind of psychological experiment on this forum?

To everybody else (Nick, please don't even comment on that one):
The 997's design is indeed using 993 styling cues. Harm Lagaay indeed preferred the first 996 theme, resembling "fried eggs" to many people. It was a very progressive attempt on the 911 styling - much more than the turn-back to single headlights and separate indicators/foglights.
Especially these particular items are the ones I dislike the most on the new model, it is neiter spectacular, nor unique nor perfectly blended into the front - but it was the customers that were looking for something more traditional!

Next
Threads

Aug 21, 2004 5:54:40 PM

dedam: Pilot; Loc: Holland , United States; Posts: 464, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 27, 2002; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Quote:
Ferdie said:
Quote:
nberry said:
...

The retired designed of Porsche has in effect admitted that despite all the evolutionary pronouncements about the 996 the car was basically a fraud (my term). The engineers could not do what they wanted because of cost issues and interference from upper management.

He now claims that the 997 is returning to the true Porsche heritage of the 993. Yes the 997 is build upon the 993 whether you want to admit it. To say you have to see it in person to appreciate the differences rings hollow.

Regarding my negative posts how am I different from you in your postitve posts? If this site is designed to be a love fest for Porsche so be it. Its your site and you set the rules.

Does ANYBODY care what he is saying? Nick, I honestly feel pity for you. How can someone tell so much bulls#*t?
Are you on some kind of psychological experiment on this forum?

To everybody else Nick, please don't even comment on that one):
The 997's design is indeed using 993 styling cues. Harm Lagaay indeed preferred the first 996 theme, resembling "fried eggs" to many people. Indeed it is a very progressive attempt on the 911 styling - much more than the turn-back to single headlights and separate indicators/foglights. Especially the last items are the ones I dislike the most on the new model, it is neiter spectacular, nor unique nor perfectly blended into the front - in my very personal opinion. Waiting for others!

Today somethink strange happend at my dealer
I was there for a few hours.
In the showroom 4 new Porsches
-997S
-9964S cab
-996turbo cab
-996 4S
To my suprice I noticed that 80% off the people walking in where first looking to the 996Turbo cab and the 996 4S cab
Most off them where surpriced and not impressed by the 997 looks because the 997 has not the looks from the widebody 996 models.
???????????????
I remember the same when the 996 in introduced after the 993turbo and 993 4S
And now after 7 years the 993turbo and 993 4S still very beloved and more expensif them lots off 996's
Plaese correct me if I am wrong

Next
Threads

Aug 21, 2004 6:13:32 PM

WF: Co-Pilot; Loc: Holland; Posts: 175, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 22, 2003; Reply to: dedam

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Quote:
dedam said:
Today somethink strange happend at my dealer
I was there for a few hours.
In the showroom 4 new Porsches
-997S
-9964S cab
-996turbo cab
-996 4S
To my suprice I noticed that 80% off the people walking in where first looking to the 996Turbo cab and the 996 4S cab
Most off them where surpriced and not impressed by the 997 looks because the 997 has not the looks from the widebody 996 models.
???????????????
I remember the same when the 996 in introduced after the 993turbo and 993 4S
And now after 7 years the 993turbo and 993 4S still very beloved and more expensif them lots off 996's
Plaese correct me if I am wrong

You're right about the popularity of the widebody 993's at the end of their productioncycle (allthough personally I still prefer the regular 993). Their relatively high resale value is caused by the quality of the early 996's and the already dating design of the pre-facelift 996 compared with the modern-classic status of the 993. People considering a 993 now don't look at early 996's they want the last version of the classic 911. I don't think the special 996's will ever get that iconic status; the normal 996 surely not.
Maybe the visitors were looking for a convertible it's still summertime

Next
Threads

Aug 21, 2004 6:57:42 PM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2861, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Quote:
nberry said:If this site is designed to be a love fest for Porsche so be it. Its your site and you set the rules.

My impression is that this is a site for Porsche enthusiasts - that means people with a real passion for their Porsche's, but the objectivity to discuss (not sling mud and insults)the vehicle's downsides. You clearly do not fit this description. I said a week or so that you were about to have a relapse, and here you are again in fully fledged negativity and ranting mode.

Next
Threads

Aug 21, 2004 6:59:29 PM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2861, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Quote:
RC said
You had your first and second warning shots, the third one won't miss. Promise.

I think we have the "three strikes and out point right now." Time to act

Next
Threads

Aug 22, 2004 11:26:19 AM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Quote:
nberry said:
The retired designed of Porsche has in effect admitted that despite all the evolutionary pronouncements about the 996 the car was basically a fraud (my term). The engineers could not do what they wanted because of cost issues and interference from upper management.

If you talk to any car-enthusiast development engineer in any car company anywhere in the world, he will complain about the restraints put on his work by the bean-counters. So what's new about that?

Quote:
nberry said:
He now claims that the 997 is returning to the true Porsche heritage of the 993. Yes the 997 is build upon the 993 whether you want to admit it. To say you have to see it in person to appreciate the differences rings hollow.

Do you know the difference between heritage and hardware? Does Ferrari disregard its heritage with every new model introduced?

Next
Threads

Aug 23, 2004 5:26:04 AM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Quote:
nberry said:
Regarding my negative posts how am I different from you in your positive posts? If this site is designed to be a love fest for Porsche so be it. Its your site and you set the rules.

I don't think I've ever agreed with nberry. I don't think his view on cars in general is a good one. In fact sometimes I think he represents a lot of what is wrong with many "exclusive" car owners and reminds me of the creepy sleaze ball feeling I get when I go to certain Ferrari dealers. However, I don't think he's alone in his ranting, which I don't think is good, but it means that he does represent a facet of opinion on these cars.

Frankly I think it's a bit childish to be offended by his posts, especially if you believe that they contain little reality. You can choose to ignore him, argue with him, or provide a different viewpoint to the members reading his posts. This isn't a case of someone being vulgar or especially rude. An unpopular opinion shouldn't be silenced, even if it's considered insane, annoying, or a bit disrespectful. It would be a shame if he couldn't speak his mind.

Think about this: What proves him more wrong? Tearing down all his arguments with logical responses or silencing him because his opinion is "offensive and negative"?

Next
Threads

Aug 23, 2004 8:34:00 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Quote:
nberry said:

BTW the 360 is not a high maintenance vehicle. If compared to a 996 out of warranty it probably would cost much less.

this phrase showed me just how little logic and credibility you have,kinda weird for a lawyer...so i dont need to argue with you anymore...

Next
Threads

Aug 24, 2004 7:34:23 AM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: dhayek

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Quote:
dhayek said:
Quote:
nberry said:

BTW the 360 is not a high maintenance vehicle. If compared to a 996 out of warranty it probably would cost much less.

this phrase showed me just how little logic and credibility you have,kinda weird for a lawyer...so i dont need to argue with you anymore...

I was thinking the same thing

Next
Threads

Aug 24, 2004 4:42:38 PM

dedam: Pilot; Loc: Holland , United States; Posts: 464, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 27, 2002; Reply to: Yargk

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

I decided to go for the 997 sealgray PASM in wait for the 997 widebody in 2 years.
Not the 997S because I do not go to the track anymore.
Looks like the same decision like RC

Next
Threads

Aug 24, 2004 8:26:20 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: dedam

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Great decision dedam, congratulations!

When do you get your car?

Top
Threads

Board	Subject	Last post	Views	Replies
Porsche	SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)	4/17/24 7:16 AM Gnil	760068	1798
Porsche	Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos)	4/7/24 11:48 AM Boxster Coupe GTS	434039	565
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021)	5/12/23 12:11 PM W8MM	259851	288
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	3/12/24 8:28 AM DJM48	256992	323
Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	80645	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	5309	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	870922	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	806032	3868
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	386161	1526
Porsche	GT4RS	4/17/24 8:53 PM Gauss	384458	1452
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	367448	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	365564	797
Ferrari	Ferrari 812 Superfast	4/21/23 8:09 AM the-missile	288092	550
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	4/11/24 12:32 PM Ferdie	285586	668
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	258897	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	236818	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	224850	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	219528	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	166740	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	138717	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	115507	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	107381	685
Others	Valkyrie final design?	4/28/23 2:45 AM Rossi	99266	219
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	83568	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	74889	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	53083	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	24677	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	20933	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19208	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16459	120

Crown

Forum - Thread

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Re: Should I stay or should I go?

Forum

Boards