Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - German F1 Grand Prix - Page1

Jul 17, 2008 11:24:06 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004

German F1 Grand Prix

Another F1 GP race this weekend at Hockenheim. I wonder whether Ferrari will make a fightback? The drivers' championship remains very close (and probably will remain so all season) BUT I sense a lack of excitement/interest somehow. I guess a 'normal' season now seems dull compared to the unprecedented drama on and off the track during last year's season

It's a paradox: I want the unpredictability of race results caused by the weather (otherwise it just becomes a procession) but I want a decent Summer too! Like last Summer, it's 2-3 days of grey, dull, wet weather followed by 1 day of dry, sunny weather. Who stole our Summer?

I am finding the fallible version of Lewis Hamilton in 2008 becoming increasingly frustrating to watch. Kimi and Massa continue to blow hot and cold. IMO Heidfeld and Kubica are still too reliant on unpredictable events to reach the podium. They still suffer a performance defecit to Ferrari and McLaren.

My point is: where is there a driver who exhibits his talent and skill consistently race after race? I guess we may have taken old Schumi somewhat for granted. Alonso would be showing his consistency to us if only he had a competitive car.

I think the interest will pick up a little when more information trickles out regarding which driver will drive for which team in 2009. The big question remains: where will Alonso drive next year?

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Jul 17, 2008 11:49:54 AM

Wrubel: Co-Pilot; Loc: EU; Posts: 176, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 23, 2008; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Kubica - World champion !!!!!!

If only those BMWs were any more reliable than they are right now, and a bit faster

But in the end it doesn't matter, because KUB will be racing in Scuderia very soon, you'll see. His contract ends in 09 as I remember.

Will be a great race in Germany.

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Jul 18, 2008 11:16:43 AM

assman!!!: Pilot; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 446, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Some interesting pictures

http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one/2008/07/is-this-the-fut.html

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Jul 18, 2008 3:13:42 PM

Discover: Senior; Loc: Israel; Posts: 711, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2005; Reply to: assman!!!

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Got 2 invitations from Mercedes, but i can't go

Hope I'll at least have the chance to watch it on television..

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Jul 18, 2008 6:53:09 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8235, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Discover

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

You were supposed to fly over from Israel for the race?

Vettel receives Coulthard's cockpit for next season. Little Hockenheim teaser, unfortunately just a summary of his German "flying lap".

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Jul 18, 2008 10:03:23 PM

Emperor: Veteran; Loc: London & Gothenburg; Posts: 1013, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2006; Reply to: assman!!!

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Quote:
assman!!! said:
Some interesting pictures

http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one/2008/07/is-this-the-fut.html

Typical tabloid behavior, fabricating a story out of thin air. So suddenly Stefano and Anthony can't have a private human conversation without it having anything to do with F1 or Hamilton?? Who knew what they were talking about, they could have been discussing something personal or just having a deep conversation that they wouldn't want to openly share with the rest.

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Jul 19, 2008 1:53:18 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: Emperor

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Awesome last sector from Lewis

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Jul 20, 2008 1:44:05 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Just watched the race. I dont think I have ever seen a bigger load of BS.
Hamilton's car looks like it has 300 BHP more than the rest, and Kovalainen lets him pass like he is being blue-flagged.
I am sure that every blue-eyed, British Hamilton fan will lynch me for this, but I have no doubt whatsoever, that McLaren have some very inappropriate modifications in his car.
Even if you believe that Hamilton is the best driver the world has ever seen, he still isnt able to make the car go that much faster than anyone else.
It is complete and utter BS.

You may dis me for this - as I am sure you will - but remember that I also claimed Alonso was a hotheaded flash-in-the-pan when everyone else thought he was the best thing since sliced bread.
Look at Alonso now.

Hamilton surely is a good driver. No question. But he is not in a different league than anyone else. But I am sure his car is.

Major frack-up by Ferrari on that double pitstop. That cost Kimi a lot of positions.
Excellent and very strange race by Piquet Jr. Happy to see a new face on the podium, and even better that Alonso gets yet another proof that having a big ego doesnt win races alone.
Apparently Alonso had told the press a few days ago, that Piquet Jr had to get his act together if he wanted to saty in F1. SLAM!

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Jul 20, 2008 1:53:58 PM

ezzie: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 242, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 5, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

The McLaren car is the most scrutinised car on the grid, especially in view of what happened last year. Massa is becoming more error prone, especially the last race at silverstone. Let's not kid ourselves, kovalainen let him through, and quite right too, as been faster in the race and he's way behind in the points. Massa was slow on the soft tyres and made a mistake by taking the outside line instead of closing the door on the inside. He's not having the best of times as a driver at the moment. Kimi is the class driver in Ferrari and being so far behind implies the car is not working all that well at the moment. As to passing Piquet, we all know Renault is a mid field team at best and Piquet did very well indeed. The moves were also aided by having the freshest tyres at the end. He drove fantastically well, and can be judged by kovalainen with the same car finishing four places behind.

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Jul 20, 2008 1:55:58 PM

ezzie: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 242, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 5, 2004; Reply to: ezzie

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Above all, we have had two great races at Silverstone in the rain and here with the safety car and two circuits on which overtaking is possible. Hope it continues to the rest of the season. Last year was very exciting after years of dull championships and this year is closer still.

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Jul 20, 2008 2:01:21 PM

r8m8: Newbie; Loc: Europe; Posts: 24, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2008; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

I'd like to think I'm quite objective about these things.

I think there is enough evidence in the last 2 years to ascertain that Hamilton is the best driver in F1. Edging the world champion in an equal car in his first year. His performance compared to Kovalainen. His performance in the rain compared to the rest of the field. His overtaking ability. His good starts off the line.

I won't get into "in a different league from anyone else" as that's a meaningless and subjective descriptor, but I do think he's the best right now, and if he keeps getting better, he could become one of the best ever.

Assuming he has inappropriate modifications to his car is a bit ... inappropriate!

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Jul 20, 2008 2:09:55 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: r8m8

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

I assume the McLaren garage instructed Heikki to let Lewis through since Lewis had been half a second faster per lap throughout the race?

Lewis's head seems to have returned to the job. He was distracted earlier in the season making too many errors.

Dr Phil - no disrespect - I think you're a bit wayward today. The Ferrari is quick but maybe didn't suit this circuit or the set up wasn't as good as that for the McLaren?

No doubt Ferrari will fight back - it's just a matter of when (not if)...

Nelsoninho did well today - it's about time - he's had a shocking season so far. Kimi did some good overtaking manoeuvres but it just wasn't enough.

BMW? Close but not close enough.

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Jul 20, 2008 2:10:51 PM

Alex18_996CC: Rennteam Master; Loc: Madrid , Spain; Posts: 3218, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Just watched the race. I dont think I have ever seen a bigger load of BS.
Hamilton's car looks like it has 300 BHP more than the rest, and Kovalainen lets him pass like he is being blue-flagged.
I am sure that every blue-eyed, British Hamilton fan will lynch me for this, but I have no doubt whatsoever, that McLaren have some very inappropriate modifications in his car.
Even if you believe that Hamilton is the best driver the world has ever seen, he still isnt able to make the car go that much faster than anyone else.
It is complete and utter BS.

You may dis me for this - as I am sure you will - but remember that I also claimed Alonso was a hotheaded flash-in-the-pan when everyone else thought he was the best thing since sliced bread.
Look at Alonso now.

Hamilton surely is a good driver. No question. But he is not in a different league than anyone else. But I am sure his car is.

lol, Doctor, you may want to go to the doctor to see if everything is all right !!!!

1)Hamilton's driving today was just out of this world, so agressive, even Mclaren fukced up the race strategy, and Hamilton still fixed everything, may be he has a better car than Kovalainen (that's ok to me), also Kovalainen's left the garden open not the door

, but that's how it works, I'm sure before Kovalainen was ready to sign the contract with his pen, Ron Dennis was there to remember him what his real role was going to be !!!....anyway, Hamilton's driving was just phenomenal....on the other hand massa needs to go on holidays for life, and Kimi, I dont what he is doing !!!!!, may be he also needs to go to the doctor !!

Now to the part you have just left me shocked !!!!!!

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
You may dis me for this - as I am sure you will - but remember that I also claimed Alonso was a hotheaded flash-in-the-pan when everyone else thought he was the best thing since sliced bread.
Look at Alonso now.

First point, like you say with Hamilton's victory of today "But I am sure his car is", he is an excellent driver, but also the car plays a VERY BIG important role, sooooo......THIS GOES THE SAME TO THE R28 of Alonso!!!!!!!!.....SAME EFFECT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT WITH A 180* RESULT

What's the point of having one of the best pilots, if he is going to drive a flinstones car at the end fo the day.....not even schumacher will achieve better results than Alonso's in this season....

No doubt Alonso was going at 110% of his abilities, BUT that fukcing car is not working, GIVE HAMILTON THE R28 AND LETS SEE WHAT HE CAN DO, I would pay to see that !!!!!!

And before you say something about N.Piquet, he finished second because he just went to one single pit stop, and of course because *GOD* touched the track and safety car went out....he did a good driving, but in a normal situation he would have been even worse than Alonso....

Just wait untill Alonso goes to Bmw or Ferrari, and remember what you just said

Its pathetic to have one of the best pilots waste an entire season with a car of that level....and I am sorry for Renault, but they forgot to do their homework, so does F.Briatore....

What its impossible, its impossible !!!!....too good alonso finished Q3 in fifth place.....

Also just have a look at the R28 when driving through corners its like Fernando was drunked with all those shakes.....not to say when the car is full of petrol, exiting corners is like going walking.....

Look for your beloved Alonso in one years time, and remember what you wrote today!!

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Jul 20, 2008 2:13:03 PM

Alex18_996CC: Rennteam Master; Loc: Madrid , Spain; Posts: 3218, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2004; Reply to: ezzie

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Quote:
ezzie said:
As to passing Piquet, we all know Renault is a mid field team at best and Piquet did very well indeed. The moves were also aided by having the freshest tyres at the end. He drove fantastically well, and can be judged by kovalainen with the same car finishing four places behind.

Absolutely !!!

But I have to say, I'm happy for N.Piquet !!!!!

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Jul 20, 2008 2:18:01 PM

Alex18_996CC: Rennteam Master; Loc: Madrid , Spain; Posts: 3218, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2004; Reply to: r8m8

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Quote:
r8m8 said:

I do think he's the best right now, and if he keeps getting better, he could become one of the best ever.

Its really hard to say this

.....but I also agree...Hamilton is the best right now, better than Kimi too and Alonso, but as you said, right now....

If Alonso had a car between Ferrari and Mclaren, he would be between Kimi's points and Hamilton's...

But I have to agree, right now Hamilton is the one in the top list, he is doing an excellent job, and is giving the most important thing !!!.....BIG FUN TO SPECTATORS!!

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Jul 20, 2008 2:54:08 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Alex18_996CC

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Massa is not up to standard for a post-Schumacher era Ferrari driver. In the Schumacher era the second driver had only to assist the Red Baron and sometimes win if Michael had an off-day.

Now both Ferrari drivers have to chase for wins and Massa can only do it when conditions are ideal and perfect.

Let's not forget how he got in the Scuderia. Through the back door as we was(is?) managed by Jean Todt's son Nicolas.

Kimi is erratic not only between races but also during the various stages in a race. He acts as if he is bored and wished to be somewhere else.

Alonso is frustrated as the "halcyon days" of the Regie are well over and because of this he rushes into silly mistakes.

Nelsihno has a psychological barrier in F1. Let us hope that P2 today will help him overcome.

The rest of the drivers are in non-competitive or intermittently competitive cars to be evaluated properly and objectively.

In the absence of real giants from the F1 nowadays, Hamilton is the saving grace.

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Jul 20, 2008 3:59:21 PM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: reginos

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Reginos, completely agree with you! The only other real driver out there in my opinion is Kubica. Alonso is the other great driver out of the current batch, but he is eratic when the car isn't working.

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Jul 20, 2008 4:28:10 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: WAY

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Quote:
WAY said:
Reginos, completely agree with you! The only other real driver out there in my opinion is Kubica. Alonso is the other great driver out of the current batch, but he is eratic when the car isn't working.

Yes, Kubica is very good and a great hope. But because his car is not consistently competitive at the level of the two leading teams, it is difficult to judge his ups and downs.

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Jul 20, 2008 6:33:50 PM

Wrubel: Co-Pilot; Loc: EU; Posts: 176, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 23, 2008; Reply to: reginos

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Guys what are we talking here about. Are we comparing drivers skills or their bolids capacity to win.
Check the first lap today
How Kubica overtook Kimi Raikkonen, Jarno Trulli and Fernando Alonso. How he managed to climb up to third place, starting from seventh. This is driving

.
I've read an post race interview with Robert, he said that after his pit stop, bolid was totally uncontrolable.
That Bmw AGAIN

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Jul 20, 2008 6:56:41 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: reginos

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

No doubt Hamilton is a very competent driver. I dont like his demeanor one bit, but I am not totally blinded by my antipathy for him. He is good.
Having said that, there is a difference between being very good and making your car perform like it's on steroids.

It's not really worth discussing if cheating is a possibility in F1 or if McLaren (or other teams as well) will do anything to win. The scandal last year proved that.
The only real question is; will cheaters always get caught?
I doubt it.
Naturally, my suspicions are purely speculative as I have zero firsthand insight into the F1 teams and their tactics - but we have also no way of knowing if teams are playing fair. It's a matter of belief and to some extent reading the results and watching the races.

Reginos, u are quite right. Altho he is definately still in contention, Kimi seems unfocussed and not that aggressive eager to win.
Perhaps his retirement from F1 and the media circus is more than just lurking in the back of his mind.
Ferrari's strategy and ability to adapt to changing conditions is getting worse by the race, it seems.
Hamilton on the other hand is pathologically ambitious and driven.
I am sure this is an advantage for Hamilton on the track.

The difference in pace between Hamilton and Massa, even after the SC, was almost ridiculous. Perhaps I am lacking knowledge when it comes to F1 technology, I simply have a hard time believing that two cars driven by co-leaders of the championship can perform that differently.
It looked like something from a bad Hollywood flick.

As for Alonso, I have no doubt that Renault is a bit from their former form when they won the championships. Having said that, Alonso has also shown that he doesn't have the cool to drive when he isnt in the best car.
Piquet came second today, proving that Renault has the car to make podium finishes. I really dont see very many arguments that can excuse Alonso anymore.

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Jul 20, 2008 7:03:34 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Quote from F1.com:
Hamilton: "I nailed it this afternoon: when the team told me I had to build a 23-second gap in just seven laps".

23 seconds in 7 laps = 3.3 seconds faster than the rest pr. lap.
Yeah, that is very possible just by driving well. LOL!

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Jul 20, 2008 7:33:05 PM

Gladstone: Expert; Loc: Kansas City, MO , United States; Posts: 1813, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 27, 2008; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Hamilton needed a 23-second gap to still be in first place after his final pit stop; that didn't happen!

He 'nailed' it by passing Massa which if you saw how many times Massa screwed up, it didn't take a better car to pass him, just a better driver.

I'm still not much of a Hamilton fan; but I really enjoyed watching him drive today.

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Jul 20, 2008 7:43:19 PM

Emperor: Veteran; Loc: London & Gothenburg; Posts: 1013, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2006; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Just watched the race. I dont think I have ever seen a bigger load of BS.
Hamilton's car looks like it has 300 BHP more than the rest, and Kovalainen lets him pass like he is being blue-flagged.
I am sure that every blue-eyed, British Hamilton fan will lynch me for this, but I have no doubt whatsoever, that McLaren have some very inappropriate modifications in his car.

What a bunch or bullocks. Hamilton has had it tough this season and have thought incredibly hard for all his victories. Safety car was deployed in Australia, Monaco, Silverstone and now in Hockenheim. Heck the SC came out in Canada and led to his collision with Kimi. So stop making it seem like Hamilton has cruised his Benz to victory in an easy manner. Just look at hos hard he worked for a podium finish in Barcelona during the period when the F2008 was untouchable.

Hamilton is a fighter, a very determined driver and have demonstrated more versatility in driving more than any other driver on the grid. I've barely seen Massa and Kimi do any overtakings. Everytime they've won it's been an easy parade from start to finish.

Maclaren are delighted to have Hamilton as a driver because he does what any team wants a top driver to do, which is take full advantage of the car. We've seen that Heikki although a good driver, isn't cut out to drive a top car.

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Jul 20, 2008 8:17:49 PM

r8m8: Newbie; Loc: Europe; Posts: 24, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2008; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Quote from F1.com:
Hamilton: "I nailed it this afternoon: when the team told me I had to build a 23-second gap in just seven laps".

23 seconds in 7 laps = 3.3 seconds faster than the rest pr. lap.
Yeah, that is very possible just by driving well. LOL!

Doesn't sound like you even watched the race. Hamilton averaged 0.5s-1s faster than Massa throughout the race. This is not unheard of and does not imply cheating in any way. Mclaren just had a better set-up/vehicle this weekend AND Hamilton drove well.

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Jul 20, 2008 8:35:40 PM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: r8m8

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Would really like to see Button in the 2nd McLaren... that would be a truly British 'dreamteam'....apart trom the German engine of course..

Button's too good a driver to be languishing at the back of the grid.

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Jul 20, 2008 9:05:02 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6079, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: John H

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Fantastic drive by Hamilton . MS retired just at the right time

....

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Jul 20, 2008 9:35:23 PM

ezzie: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 242, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 5, 2004; Reply to: throt

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Ferrari has been inconsistent this year and were somewhat behind in the championship last year before McLaren was disqualified. The main reason for their success in recent years has been the formidable combination of Schumacher, Ross Brawn and Jean Todt. Without these men, they have shown fallibility.

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Jul 20, 2008 10:55:56 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Just watched the race. I dont think I have ever seen a bigger load of BS.
Hamilton's car looks like it has 300 BHP more than the rest, and Kovalainen lets him pass like he is being blue-flagged.

I agree. Perhaps ML cars are not tricked up but something is up. ML has team orders for sure, otherwise HK would not be left behind that much.

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Jul 20, 2008 10:58:29 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
No doubt Hamilton is a very competent driver. I dont like his demeanor one bit, but I am not totally blinded by my antipathy for him. He is good.
Having said that, there is a difference between being very good and making your car perform like it's on steroids.

I agree again. LH is good, but he is also cocky, arrogant (under a studied PR veneer) and reckless. Notice his Piquet overtaking - totally reckless. In the old days he would have been penalized. These days anything goes in the F1 circus. Not much of a Sport anymore.

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Jul 20, 2008 11:01:59 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: Emperor

Re: German F1 Grand Prix

Quote:
Emperor said:... Hamilton is a fighter, a very determined driver and have demonstrated more versatility in driving more than any other driver on the grid.

Your view. Here is mine:

Hamilton is a take no prisoners, cocky, arrogant, reckless driver. He is no sportsman and F1 (the Sport) suffers for it. F1, the Circus, apparently loves it.

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