Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911 - Page1

Jul 1, 2008 12:57:15 PM

Lars997: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: South , Germany; Posts: 9448, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002

Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

Hi Guys,

I friend of mine is working on a Thesis around Porsche. He asked me if there was ever a 4 cylinder 911. As far as I know, the 912 was a 4 cylinder and that car was having a 911 body. I'm just not sure if this car was considered as a 911 as it was a 912, but seeing that we have nowadays a 997 and we still considering it as an 911 I'm not sure?

Thanks for any help,

L@rs

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Jul 1, 2008 1:02:59 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Lars997

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

A 912 is 4cyl, but it is not a 911.

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Jul 1, 2008 1:07:23 PM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

Quote:
Grant said:
A 912 is 4cyl, but it is not a 911.

It only looked like one

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Jul 1, 2008 1:08:48 PM

Lars997: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: South , Germany; Posts: 9448, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

ok - Thanks!

In other words, the 911 was always a 6-cylinder, had never a 4?

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Jul 1, 2008 2:34:23 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Lars997

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

Quote:
Lars997 said:
ok - Thanks!

In other words, the 911 was always a 6-cylinder, had never a 4?

Exactly.

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Jul 1, 2008 3:38:07 PM

FLORENT KAVADAS: Co-Pilot; Loc: Corfu Greece; Posts: 264, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 22, 2006; Reply to: Grant

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

correct!

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Jul 1, 2008 3:44:55 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: FLORENT KAVADAS

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

Look at how the 912 was sold. Same credentials as a "911" but the lesser 4-cyl engine made it more affordable.

So you'd say the 912 is an affordable _911_, right?

Heck ..., it was the beginning of the generic-ification of the term "911," right? Today we have 993, 997, 996, etc., etc., all 911s.

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Jul 1, 2008 4:41:23 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: MMD

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

Quote:
MMD said:
Look at how the 912 was sold. Same credentials as a "911" but the lesser 4-cyl engine made it more affordable.

There were other differences besides the motor, but if you want to think of it as a cheap version of the 911, that's your right. But the factory did not...

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Jul 1, 2008 4:53:12 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

I hate to think I'm living in my own world.

The fact that it's a 911 body and chassis makes it a 911 with a cheaper 4 cyl 356 engine, IM_H_O.

FWIW, Here's the Wikipedia weird world of thought on why the 912 came into existence:

History

After the discontinuation of the 356 model in 1965, Porsche was left with the pricey new 911 as their only offering. Fearing that its considerable price increase over the 356 would cost the company sales and narrow the appeal of the brand, a decision was made by executives to introduce a new entry-level model. Built on the 911's chassis and sharing its bodyshell, Porsche was able to offer the 912 for much less than a base-model 911 by using the four-cylinder engine from the 356 rather than the 911's "flat" six-cylinder powerplant and by reducing the number of standard features. The proven reliability of the 356's engine combined with the 911 bodywork and low price made the 912 a very attractive buy to both new and old customers, and it substantially outsold the 911 during the first few years of production:

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Jul 1, 2008 9:10:33 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: MMD

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

The coolest thing about the 912 (the early ones in the 60's, not the 912E of the 70's) is that they were very light and the rear motor was placed further foward than the 911's due to its smaller dimensions giving it outstanding handling (if you upgrade the susupension and add swaybars).

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Jul 1, 2008 11:27:28 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

Quote:
Grant said:
The coolest thing about the 912 (the early ones in the 60's, not the 912E of the 70's) is that they were very light and the rear motor was placed further foward than the 911's due to its smaller dimensions giving it outstanding handling (if you upgrade the susupension and add swaybars).

I'm sure those early units had some nice features. I wish I could have appreciated them.

I remember the 912E and everybody seemed to mock it; "Poor man's Porsche," "Not a real 911." I was too young to even own/drive one but nevertheless we were very snotty kids. I feel bad about that now. Holy cow, we even gave the 914 a bad time too.

Is there a 912 non-profit restoration club or museum I can contribute to?

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Jul 2, 2008 6:34:16 AM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

I remember one of my first times on the track I encountered an instructor with a blue 912. He was very smooth and kept the speed up quite well in the turns. He was much faster than me when I first started in the 930 despite having 2.5-3 times the power.

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Jul 2, 2008 6:43:58 AM

Lars997: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: South , Germany; Posts: 9448, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Yargk

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

Cool guys - lots of thanks again!

Its amazing how much knowledge we have in this board!

L@rs

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Jul 2, 2008 8:15:36 AM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: Lars997

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

Redford drove a 912 in "spy game" very pretty car.

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Jul 2, 2008 2:19:43 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

The massive three-volume Porsche Bible _Excellence Was Expected_ indicates that in 1965 Car and Driver hailed the 912 as "a 911 that we all can afford to buy and drive." So, for me that and the fact that it's a 911 chassis and body, pretty much ends the debate: the 912 is a 4 cyl 911.

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Jul 3, 2008 5:23:13 AM

U Boat Commander: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 1250, Gallery; Registered on: May 8, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

Check out this baby on the left.

Many more pics of it here: http://www.ciborg.net/album/Porsche/...912/index.html

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Jul 3, 2008 12:56:15 PM

DaveC: Veteran; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 1068, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2005; Reply to: U Boat Commander

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

The original 912 carried over the latest 356 engine, while the 76 912E had the VW 2.0L from the end of the line 914. The 76 912E was only produced for one year in transition from 914 to 924, and I suspect that is where the perception of "poor man's 911" derives. Grant is right about the '60s 912, it had it's own character and handling qualities that were very enjoyable, and in the original short wheelbase version, more forgiving than its 6 cylinder sibling.

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Jul 3, 2008 3:57:16 PM

964C2: Expert; Loc: Dallas, TX , United States; Posts: 1825, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: DaveC

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

Quote:
DaveC said:
The original 912 carried over the latest 356 engine, while the 76 912E had the VW 2.0L from the end of the line 914. The 76 912E was only produced for one year in transition from 914 to 924, and I suspect that is where the perception of "poor man's 911" derives. Grant is right about the '60s 912, it had it's own character and handling qualities that were very enjoyable, and in the original short wheelbase version, more forgiving than its 6 cylinder sibling.

Also the 912E was an overseas export model only....the 924, announced in 1975, was being promoted in Europe as the "entry-level" Porsche at the same time.

PS - I agree with Grant's handling description...it was the first Porsche I ever drove, in 1969, and it was a "sweet handling" car.

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Jul 4, 2008 1:53:47 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: 964C2

Re: Was there ever a 4 cylinder 911

If anybody knows anything about 11s as far back as '63, should actually know that the 912 was an excellent car - better balanced than the original 911, which had significant growing pains during those first years. Today a 912 in good condition is a collector's item.

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