Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car? - Page1

Aug 15, 2004 4:23:22 PM

MaxErnst: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 513, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2004

Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Lots of times I want to get that cheap thrill and floor the car for a few seconds (in safe (no people or pets) situations) and I hesitate because of engine noise.

Makes me wonder WHY would Porsche (or anybody) put so much effort in making the engine sound "good?"

Why not just make them _quieter_ on the OUTside, so as not to disturb the neighbors? Then get the Bose system to give you any digital sound you want in the interior. Could be a ferarri, or a turbine, or a Funny car, right?

What's wrong with a really quiet, powerful engine?

I'm not an from Mars: I like whining engine sounds, I'm just wondering why I gotta announce to the world that I'm doing something stupid like stomping on the gas pedal.

How loud do these cars sound from the roadside when you get frisky with them. Do they wake people up and turn heads when you fly by?

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Aug 15, 2004 5:02:55 PM

Basalt: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 149, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 28, 2004; Reply to: MaxErnst

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of

Perhaps a Toyota Prius would be more appropiate?

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Aug 15, 2004 5:05:06 PM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: MaxErnst

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

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Aug 15, 2004 5:05:39 PM

Porsche Addict: Junior; Loc: USA; Posts: 82, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 1, 2004; Reply to: Basalt

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of

lol...I agree with basalt on this one

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Aug 15, 2004 6:00:27 PM

Seattle USA: Junior; Loc: Seattle, WA; Posts: 77, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 5, 2004; Reply to: Porsche Addict

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of

I understand your point. For some Porsche represents "Pure German Engineering" - everything added to the car must serve a technical purpose related to driving. In that mode of thinking what's the deal with engine sound styling?

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Aug 15, 2004 6:42:44 PM

Basalt: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 149, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 28, 2004; Reply to: Seattle USA

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of

But then you can ask "why paint a car?" Does Arctic Silver 'serve a purpose related to driving'?

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Aug 15, 2004 6:52:55 PM

Porsche Addict: Junior; Loc: USA; Posts: 82, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 1, 2004; Reply to: Basalt

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of

basalt is right again. If looks and sound didnt matter we would all be driving in sleepers. I'm still a supporter of "form follows function", but common when I get a Porsche I still want it to look stunning and sound just as good. It would be retarded if Porsches (as well as other sports car) were super quite. You'd hit the gas and get no sound?? I dont think so.

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Aug 15, 2004 6:53:57 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: MaxErnst

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Well, I could give you an example what I did today: instead of turning on the BOSE, I listened to the engine roar of my car. It is just like pure adrenalin, listening to the engine/exhaust sound (windows/sunroof open) and driving along deserted little country roads in Bavaria. It was sunny today, around 23-26*C and my wife and kids were occupied with something else.
Ever asked a Ferrari driver why he opens the window in tunnels?

Porsche drivers do they same.

For me my car is just a toy, something to enjoy and feel good about it. My daily driver is a Cayenne Turbo which brings a grin to my face too but not even close to the 997 Carrera S.

Neighbours? My neighbour has a 996 with Porsche sport exhaust and every time he leaves or enters his garage, I hear the throaty 911 sound, even at night. It doesn't bother me at all and I just love it.

Quiet engine? I can drive that when I'm 60.

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Aug 15, 2004 7:00:29 PM

Seattle USA: Junior; Loc: Seattle, WA; Posts: 77, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 5, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Painting protects the car, and "Artic Silver" is the closest color to pure metal.

The question is not what the car sounds like after the engineer has built the engine, its what it sounds like after the marketing department has added the "sound styling".

German Cars = Engineering
Italian Cars = Passion
American Cars = Muscle

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Aug 15, 2004 7:03:32 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13735, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: MaxErnst

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Speed and performance is not all what a car is about. It must please the eyes and ears! Remember, rarely are you able to enjoy the full performance "monty". The sound, feel and look keep the smile on the face.

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Aug 15, 2004 7:53:25 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Seattle USA

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Quote:
Seattle USA said:
The question is not what the car sounds like after the engineer has built the engine, its what it sounds like after the marketing department has added the "sound styling".

It is no secret how a flat six engine sounds, it doesn't need sound engineering. Usually. But with more and more severe noise limitations induced by law, sound engineering has become for Porsche very important. They don't add sound where there isn't sound but they make the original sound "legal" by adjusting it to noise emissions laws. Not an easy task, especially regarding the sport exhaust. And to be honest: I wonder how Porsche got technical approval for the current 997 Carrera S sound, it is unbelievable, especially when the car is run in a little bit.

So if you remove the catalysts and restrictive airbox from the 996/997, you get the same sound as on older Porsche models. No wonder, the flat six is a flat six.

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Aug 16, 2004 2:20:17 AM

Scree: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 32, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 16, 2004; Reply to: Seattle USA

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Quote:
The question is not what the car sounds like after the engineer has built the engine, its what it sounds like after the marketing department has added the "sound styling".

German Cars = Engineering
Italian Cars = Passion
American Cars = Muscle

Have you heard PSE? It makes our car sound like a classic 911. Marketing doesn't "style" the sound, they simply get rid of some of the muffling of the engine. Nearly every older 911 driver I know, when first geting in to my car, says "this is water cooled??? it sounds just like my 9xx".

The car sounds raw, the whirrr of the flat-6 very distinct, accompanied by other mechanical noises that definitely say "german". This is how a 911 should sound, not the quiet, whiny hissing 996 that came out in '99.

-=Scree=-

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Aug 16, 2004 3:08:19 AM

Seattle USA: Junior; Loc: Seattle, WA; Posts: 77, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 5, 2004; Reply to: Scree

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Why should a water cooled engine sound like an air cooled engine? Isn't it more honest for it to sound like a water cooled engine?

If a certain amount of noise reduction is required to pass various laws, and the engineers do a good job implementing the solution, why do more work to color the sound? Why not just be proud of the design and move on?

I assume no one would be a fan of hooking up an external speaker and amplifier to play a pre recorded engine sound in sync with the gas pedal - but who knows? As Porsche moved from air cooled engines to water cooled engines, requlations may force Porche to produce hybrid 911s in the year 2020. The Prius comment, although meant as a joke, may just be a prediction of things to come.

All of this is just a long way of wondering why people care about the "Helmholtz resonator". Is the answer simply that tradionalists prefer the noises that came from 993 engines?

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Aug 16, 2004 3:31:21 AM

Porsche Addict: Junior; Loc: USA; Posts: 82, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 1, 2004; Reply to: Seattle USA

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Seattle USA, Porsche strives for perfection...if they had it your way they would simply go with the bare minimum.

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Aug 16, 2004 4:01:01 AM

Seattle USA: Junior; Loc: Seattle, WA; Posts: 77, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 5, 2004; Reply to: Porsche Addict

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

If you think I like things that are the bare minimum then I didn't communicate very well. I like things way way beyond the bare minimum, but in the direction of engineering and driving perfection. Does making the car sound like an unmuffled air cooled flat six make it more perfect? From the responses I'm getting the answer must be yes.

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Aug 16, 2004 4:09:19 AM

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 1086, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2004; Reply to: Seattle USA

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of

Quote:
Seattle USA said:
... Does making the car sound like an unmuffled air cooled flat six make it more perfect? From the responses I'm getting the answer must be yes.

I can still remember very vividly the sound of a flat six from almost 36 years ago when I first heard it.

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Aug 16, 2004 8:26:31 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: vtrader

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of

i even think there is better than the prius for you..get an electric car!

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Aug 16, 2004 9:13:31 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: dhayek

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of

For those that don't enjoy their auditory sense when driving I recomend this

0-60mph under 4 secs

1/4 mile in 12 secs at over 120mph

Tango electric car.

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Aug 16, 2004 9:53:24 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Seattle USA

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Maybe this example makes you understand why the engine/exhaust sound is a very important part of the whole Porsche (or Ferrari) "experience" (sorry if I offend someone with this comment but I didn't find a better comparison): imagine you have sex and neither you or your wife/girl friend make a single noise. Just sex, nothing else, no oooh, no aahhh, no screaming, NOTHING.
Would it be the same? You tell me.

Now this might not be a very good example but you have to understand that there are cars and cars. Some people don't buy a Porsche because they need it, they buy it because they want it, because they want to fullfill a dream, a passion, a desire. I mean c'mon, you can use any other car as a daily commuter, it doesn't have to be a Porsche.

I'm the technical type of guy too, I like tech stuff and I don't care too much about design elements. But this doesn't mean I don't have a heart and feelings. When I spend so much money for a car, I want something in plus compared to a BMW or a Mercedes. I want that "something" which is difficult to explain when you drive a Porsche. And this includes the sound too because it is an important part of the driving experience. Maybe only Ferrari and Porsche drivers really understand these feelings.

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Aug 16, 2004 4:15:59 PM

Paul S in TX: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 259, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2002; Reply to: MaxErnst

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Truthfully, the 996 is already too quiet, especially as originally introduced back in 1998. It took them until 02 to add at least some respectable engine note. To me, if I'm in a lux-o-barge, then I don't want to hear the engine. In a 911--I want to hear the engine, more not less than is currently the case. To each his own, however.

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Aug 16, 2004 4:20:35 PM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Quote:
RC said:
Just sex, nothing else, no oooh, no aahhh,

hahahahhahaahahhaah

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Aug 16, 2004 9:24:30 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of

Quote:
carlos fromspain said:

0-60mph under 4 secs

But only if you push it off that cliff, surely?!

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Aug 16, 2004 10:05:31 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: fritz

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
carlos fromspain said:

0-60mph under 4 secs

But only if you push it off that cliff, surely?!

maybe they installed a series of capacitators that are charged and ready to use like a NOS button when the moment comes to humiliate the muscle car that next to it at the stoplight

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Aug 17, 2004 12:23:15 AM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Seattle USA

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Seattle, I hope and have the feeling that you just want a serious discussion about that issue!

If you DON'T care about squealing doors, a well set-up housing or a certain attractiveness of your wife and even your car, only then I accept that you might not care about the issue of sound design.

This research branch wasn't important a few decades ago, there were only cars that sounded well and the ones that sounded bad. Alfas and Ferraris just as much as Porsches and BMW belonged to the first ones - it wouldn't be an issue to design a car with almost no engine noise at all. Try a electric car or maybe a luxury sedan - even in these cars a certain amount of engine note is audible under heavy acceleration.
It would be weird if sportscar wouldn't sound like sportscars anymore, and to be precise the Boxster is said to be the first car that was quieter on the out- than on the inside!

An aircooled flat-six doesn't sound like a watercooled one - one of the reasons Porsche turned to the later was because of noise regulations which can be controlled much better in a water-insulated engine than in an aircooled one! Same goes for Harley-Davidson and I suspect most of you guys are informed that Porsche helped out on the development of H-D's new water-cooled V2!

If you complain about sound design you should also complain about car design in general! Just because it doesn't bother you doesn't mean it doesn't bother other customers - and considering the response on the first 996s' exhaust note just shows that!

The point is that we would rather like to be cheated than experiencing the real thing:

Wonderbras and other breast-enhancing devises, lipstick and other make-up are just as much of a "rip-off" as

exhaust and even door closing sounds on cars!

The Euro-spec Toyota Corolla even uses balance weights in the doors to achieve a more solid and vault-like feel!
By the way, if sound design is ridiculous, what is a sport exhaust all about?

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Aug 17, 2004 2:56:50 AM

Seattle USA: Junior; Loc: Seattle, WA; Posts: 77, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 5, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Ferdie, thank you for the intelligent response. I think you made my point better than I did.

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Aug 17, 2004 11:00:32 AM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Seattle USA

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

Thanks,

so I would still like to know if you appreciate the Boxster's and 911's sound design?

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Aug 17, 2004 3:37:30 PM

Seattle USA: Junior; Loc: Seattle, WA; Posts: 77, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 5, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Why is enginesound important for "styling" of car?

For me, PSE was near the bottom of the option list, right next to the aerokit. I don't think the 911 needs a wonderbra, but I understand why some might want it:

1. To turn heads and make people look at you.
2. Because of a nostaglic recollection of the sound of the 993.
3. Because of an (ahem) intimate relationship with your car.

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