Crown

Enzo II:

It's ugly as hell

Urus...Q8...only the logical step for Porsche.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

The other 2 look much better

It seems that the situation gets worse, not only new productwise - for example, I asked my dealer on the "T" couple of days after the car was announced a few months ago - "all slots taken" was the reply, now, "Ts" are mushrooming on the sales floors (at least at dealers in my greater neighborhood), but there are no signs for attractive offers (most of the "Ts" are base Carreras anyway, with the usual set-up; PDK, back seats, privacy glass, panoramic roof etc.)

Enzo II:

The other 2 look much better

Have you seen the Cayenne Coupe without camouflage? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

d997h:

It seems that the situation gets worse, not only new productwise - for example, I asked my dealer on the "T" couple of days after the car was announced a few months ago - "all slots taken" was the reply, now, "Ts" are mushrooming on the sales floors (at least at dealers in my greater neighborhood), but there are no signs for attractive offers (most of the "Ts" are base Carreras anyway, with the usual set-up; PDK, back seats, privacy glass, panoramic roof etc.)

The problem is that it seems that the factory isn't "compensating" dealers in any way and/or offer incentives to sell their already produced cars and dealers are in a serious situation, making it almost impossible to offer good deals.

The good deals may (or may not...) be available end of July, when dealers start to panic and/or register already produced showroom cars to the dealership because of the deadline.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

d997h:

It seems that the situation gets worse, not only new productwise - for example, I asked my dealer on the "T" couple of days after the car was announced a few months ago - "all slots taken" was the reply, now, "Ts" are mushrooming on the sales floors (at least at dealers in my greater neighborhood), but there are no signs for attractive offers (most of the "Ts" are base Carreras anyway, with the usual set-up; PDK, back seats, privacy glass, panoramic roof etc.)

The problem is that it seems that the factory isn't "compensating" dealers in any way and/or offer incentives to sell their already produced cars and dealers are in a serious situation, making it almost impossible to offer good deals.

The good deals may (or may not...) be available end of July, when dealers start to panic and/or register already produced showroom cars to the dealership because of the deadline.

 

Do you know what has put Porsche so much off-schedule? The new requirements/rules were known long time ago.

Other manufacturers with more models and engines seem to be on the mark. BMW started producing cars with the new engines as from July 1, as far as I know.

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

reginos:

RC:

d997h:

It seems that the situation gets worse, not only new productwise - for example, I asked my dealer on the "T" couple of days after the car was announced a few months ago - "all slots taken" was the reply, now, "Ts" are mushrooming on the sales floors (at least at dealers in my greater neighborhood), but there are no signs for attractive offers (most of the "Ts" are base Carreras anyway, with the usual set-up; PDK, back seats, privacy glass, panoramic roof etc.)

The problem is that it seems that the factory isn't "compensating" dealers in any way and/or offer incentives to sell their already produced cars and dealers are in a serious situation, making it almost impossible to offer good deals.

The good deals may (or may not...) be available end of July, when dealers start to panic and/or register already produced showroom cars to the dealership because of the deadline.

 

Do you know what has put Porsche so much off-schedule? The new requirements/rules were known long time ago.

Other manufacturers with more models and engines seem to be on the mark. BMW started producing cars with the new engines as from July 1, as far as I know.

Are they available? 

BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW...not much difference, some models will be available in autumn, others maybe even later.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

reginos:

RC:

d997h:

It seems that the situation gets worse, not only new productwise - for example, I asked my dealer on the "T" couple of days after the car was announced a few months ago - "all slots taken" was the reply, now, "Ts" are mushrooming on the sales floors (at least at dealers in my greater neighborhood), but there are no signs for attractive offers (most of the "Ts" are base Carreras anyway, with the usual set-up; PDK, back seats, privacy glass, panoramic roof etc.)

The problem is that it seems that the factory isn't "compensating" dealers in any way and/or offer incentives to sell their already produced cars and dealers are in a serious situation, making it almost impossible to offer good deals.

The good deals may (or may not...) be available end of July, when dealers start to panic and/or register already produced showroom cars to the dealership because of the deadline.

 

Do you know what has put Porsche so much off-schedule? The new requirements/rules were known long time ago.

Other manufacturers with more models and engines seem to be on the mark. BMW started producing cars with the new engines as from July 1, as far as I know.

Are they available? 

BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW...not much difference, some models will be available in autumn, others maybe even later.

I was informed that my BMW 2-series with PF will be produced next week. Of course, I haven't seen it yet

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

Some models are available, most aren't.

Porsche will also offer PF-equipped 991.2 starting autumn but everything else, well...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Every manufacturer has to certify not only each model but also all the combinations of model and wheels and some options. For a brand like Porsche this is s nightmare, and we should expect a limited number of options available once the blackout period comes to an end. It takes way too much time to certify it all.

2016 Cayman GT4 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2016 Macan S Diesel - 2013 Mini Cooper S

Ok, but we are talking about non-PF cars right now obviously being pressed into the dealerships seemingly with no further incentives for the Dealers. I may be wrong here and the dealers just may have played it very safe themselves, again, as an example  with the "T", and sell these cars as more or less as base Carreras (with some goodies / tweaks). At least I have not seen a lot of these "hardcore manual, bucket seats, rear wheel steering" "Ts" like Porsche has shown in their videos... well, wait and see...

Mikla:

Every manufacturer has to certify not only each model but also all the combinations of model and wheels and some options. For a brand like Porsche this is s nightmare, and we should expect a limited number of options available once the blackout period comes to an end. It takes way too much time to certify it all.

Welcome to the ridiculous European bureaucracy 

SciFrog:

Mikla:

Every manufacturer has to certify not only each model but also all the combinations of model and wheels and some options. For a brand like Porsche this is s nightmare, and we should expect a limited number of options available once the blackout period comes to an end. It takes way too much time to certify it all.

Welcome to the ridiculous European bureaucracy 

this new rule is there because of cheating manufacturers who got caught

they can just blame themselves after all.

with the new tests procedure, every case is to be tested...with more 20+ 911 version and 1 million possibilities for options they will need a creative homologation team.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

For the moment, some models like the Golf R, have seen their power reduced, due to this new regulations

http://www.evo.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/21458/volkswagen-golf-r-power-reduced-due-to-new-wltp-regs

RC:

Enzo II:

The other 2 look much better

Have you seen the Cayenne Coupe without camouflage? 

No Well, let's wait then for our final judgement

This means, that every NEW car any Porsche dealer currently has on ist sales floor right now needs to be registered before Sept 1st, 2018, right ? (registered either by the dealership itself or sold to a client) 

d997h:

This means, that every NEW car any Porsche dealer currently has on ist sales floor right now needs to be registered before Sept 1st, 2018, right ? (registered either by the dealership itself or sold to a client)

I hear that also after first september a low number of cars can be registered also if from the old emission class.

don't know if is true or not...but seems possible...difficult to fire all cars before first september with August as last working month(usually the month of holidays)

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS

A lot of good deals will be offered then.

2018 White 911 GT3

According to various media reports, VW Group is having a very hard time to cope with the certifications/changes, making it very likely that this "chaos" will last longer than expected. 

I feel very sorry for the dealers and especially the sales persons there, who actually make a living selling cars...cars they don't have now (anymore). Sad.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Super Darius:

d997h:

This means, that every NEW car any Porsche dealer currently has on ist sales floor right now needs to be registered before Sept 1st, 2018, right ? (registered either by the dealership itself or sold to a client)

I hear that also after first september a low number of cars can be registered also if from the old emission class.

don't know if is true or not...but seems possible...difficult to fire all cars before first september with August as last working month(usually the month of holidays)

Yes, there is an exception for a period of one year, starting 1st September. I don't have all the details but my understanding is that a volume of 10% (probably measured against annualised sales) still can be sold / registered without the PF.

Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3

I notice today the notification on the U.K. Porsche new car configurator staying that it is not possible to currently order a new car has been taken off - I guess Porsche are accepting orders now? 

I was just “window shopping” not actually looking to order a new Porsche as much as SWMBO would love to exchange our Boxster for a 991! 

Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / VW Golf GTI 5dr DSG Tornado Red

Did you go all the way in the configurator ? The note is still there, albeit at the end...

d997h:

Did you go all the way in the configurator ? The note is still there, albeit at the end...

No I didn’t and yes it is... Strange they’ve moved it but not removed it  But as I was only browsing and not about to rush off to place an order didn’t look too deeply!

Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / VW Golf GTI 5dr DSG Tornado Red

dreamcar:

d997h:

Did you go all the way in the configurator ? The note is still there, albeit at the end...

No I didn’t and yes it is... Strange they’ve moved it but not removed it  But as I was only browsing and not about to rush off to place an order didn’t look too deeply!

Not sure about Porsche but I talked to a VW Group guy recently and he told me that things could get even more ugly because of the certification and the threat of further even more strict emissions legislations in the EU. I guess this means that this affects all companies within VW Group. It is bad right now... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

dreamcar:

d997h:

Did you go all the way in the configurator ? The note is still there, albeit at the end...

No I didn’t and yes it is... Strange they’ve moved it but not removed it  But as I was only browsing and not about to rush off to place an order didn’t look too deeply!

Not sure about Porsche but I talked to a VW Group guy recently and he told me that things could get even more ugly because of the certification and the threat of further even more strict emissions legislations in the EU. I guess this means that this affects all companies within VW Group. It is bad right now... 

I cannot understand how the rest of the industry have managed to cope. Have all the measurements of the whole VW Group been totally unreliable?

--

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

RC:

dreamcar:

d997h:

Did you go all the way in the configurator ? The note is still there, albeit at the end...

No I didn’t and yes it is... Strange they’ve moved it but not removed it  But as I was only browsing and not about to rush off to place an order didn’t look too deeply!

Not sure about Porsche but I talked to a VW Group guy recently and he told me that things could get even more ugly because of the certification and the threat of further even more strict emissions legislations in the EU. I guess this means that this affects all companies within VW Group. It is bad right now... 

There is no doubt that authorities world wide - not just the EU - are going to make it increasingly difficult and expensive for fossil fuelled internal combustion engines to comply with legislation. Here in the U.K. the government has decreed that the sale of all new fossil fuelled cars will stop in 2040 and the tree huggers want them banned by 2030. So in the medium term all new cars will be either electric or hydrogen powered.

--

Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / VW Golf GTI 5dr DSG Tornado Red

From now Seat has only one/two engines in models like the  Leon in Spain

reginos:

RC:

dreamcar:

d997h:

Did you go all the way in the configurator ? The note is still there, albeit at the end...

No I didn’t and yes it is... Strange they’ve moved it but not removed it  But as I was only browsing and not about to rush off to place an order didn’t look too deeply!

Not sure about Porsche but I talked to a VW Group guy recently and he told me that things could get even more ugly because of the certification and the threat of further even more strict emissions legislations in the EU. I guess this means that this affects all companies within VW Group. It is bad right now... 

I cannot understand how the rest of the industry have managed to cope. Have all the measurements of the whole VW Group been totally unreliable?

--

 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

This is the aftermath of the emissions scandal, VW and others didn't expect the stricter WLTP certifications.

Or to be more blunt: Before the emissions scandal, many in the car industry thought that they could continue with their software shenanigans, making it pretty easy to adapt to any new legislation and easily fulfill the necessary certifications.

Mercedes is not in a much different situation than VW right now (well, maybe a bit better), BMW also has some issues and I bet that non-German manufacturers are highly underestimating the situation right now, the wake-up call comes later when their cars will be actually tested by independent sources. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

I bet that non-German manufacturers are highly underestimating the situation right now, the wake-up call comes later when their cars will be actually tested by independent sources. 

If we are talking Diesel cars ironically the german cheaters are the cleanest ones in terms of NOX emissions (according to ADAC conducting a real life test with 188 Diesel cars last year).

I understand with the particle filter for the DFI cars it's less of a technical challenge for low hp/ small displacement engines but more difficult for high powered performance oriented cars (hence the partial suspension of new car sales for Porsche and also for some M-BMWs).

Problem for all DFI cars (no matter whether low hp or performance cars) is the lack of testing racks (all variants of a model need inidividual testing).

IMHO regardless of the Diesel scandal (triggered by megalomaniac VW execs trying to grab market share in the US with their Diesel cars which never could met US regulations) the mess was foreseeable as the politically prescribed future target emissions in the EU simply are not achievable unless you go either electric or extremely downsized (think 3 cyl 1 L).

Let's enjoy our cars als long as we can  I am sure once the electronic autonomous cars are coming unrestricted Autobahn will be a thing of the past and "human drivers" will have to pay a hefty extra insurance premium, because they are so much more prone to accidents compared to the perfect robotic cars around them  What ? You still drive an old dirty DFI Porsche instead of an electric car ? In this case not only the insurance company will milk you but also the government (road taxes).

Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3

A general speed limit for the Autobahn will come sooner than many of us here in Germany may expect.

The reason is simple: Til now, major car manufacturers like VW Group, BMW and Mercedes were against a general speed limit. No surprise here since they offer pretty fast cars and a speed limit would certainly have an impact on all those Porsche, Lambo, BMW M, AMG, etc. sales. In the near future however, with the "electrification" of cars, it only makes sense for major car manufacturers to ask for a legal speed limit in Germany.

Why? Well, the faster an EV goes, the more energy it consumes and the faster the battery drains. The high top speeds of the cars nowadays are "deadly" for battery life. One reason why EVs driving faster than 200 kph, drain their batteries extremely fast. So it makes only sense to ask for a speed limit to keep average energy consumption and especially ranges at an acceptable level. Porsche cannot sell a car which drains it's battery after 50 km if the driver drives 300 kph.  Just a stupid example but you get my point.

If you think I'm wrong, I'm not. I actually know for a fact that this topic has been discussed at VW Group (and very likely at other manufacturers as well).

In the future, everything will be about acceleration, charging time and total energy consumption. Also how autonomous a car will be able to drive or not. Top speed? Not important anymore, simply because there will be a general speed limit in Germany. Maybe not tomorrow, not in a year or two but it will certainly happen over the next decade. It will affect the whole thinking in the car industry about future products and how they will be shaped technologically.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)