Crown

Carlos from Spain:

100%, realiability is a must, its part of the safety issue, thel ast thing you want is your 18yr old daughter stranded in the middle of the road somewhere because of a problem with the car.

 Most importantly, I don't want her to be distracted from studying. I know how I was when I had issues with the car or my condo (a broken water line), almost missed out on some exams because of the trouble.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

throt:

and warranty on new.

Plus, when you hand the keys to your daughter she looks at you with a big smile. Happy days, If was worth it  ..

  True but honestly, with new cars, you barely have issues and you also feel good about yourself that you got your kid a new and safe car.

This is the fascinating bit for me as I think it may say more about your "feeling good about yourself issues" than anything else, the need to give one's child a brand new car I'm sure psychologists could have a field day with this one. OK if you are seriously rich and your child will always be seriously rich that is a different matter but if your child will have to fend for herself then how can it be a good thing to just give her a brand new car at 18 what does she learn from that about the real world which she presumably will have to enter at some point. When she graduates will her parents be leasing another car for her or will she have to downgrade to a car she can actually afford ?

It is a difficult subject, I have paid for my 17 (nearly 18) year old's mobile phone since she got it about 6 years ago and she asked me the other day if I will always be paying for her mobile phone, at this age they are learning about money big time and beginning to realise that there isn't an endless pot of it and that they have to prioritise what they spend THEIR money on, they watch you making extravagant purchases (R8s and 720's ) and they will be trying to work out how they fit into all of this.

It is a hard one and I'm sure RC's approach is just as valid as mine for him, we all want the best for our kids  

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

2018 McLaren 720S 

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

My parents always provided for everything I needed (not necessarily what I wanted ) as long as I was doing well in school and bringing home the grades they expected. We did the same with our kids and so far, I think it worked quite well for us. We are very conservative in our thinking and education but not with everything.

I have a very close relationship to my kids, they both call me their best friend (not sure if this is necessarily really a good thing because I am supposed to be their father, not their friend but it makes me feel good to hear that, why should I lie) and we spend a lot of time together, which is not really common nowadays (my kids are 15 and 17, many kids at these ages leave home in the morning for school, come home to eat and change and off they are to friends, so parents barely see them).

My daughter never lied to me (seriously, don't ask how I know... ) and my son only when he was scared because of some not so good grades. When I punish them, they are mad at me but not to a point where they call me names or wish I were dead (this happens all the time with kids in our circle of friends).  Both are good kids and believe it or not, they never asked for anything. Never. Not even for their birthdays or Christmas. I know this is hard to believe but it is true. It was always me or my wife who bought our kids stuff, without them asking. We basically had to push our daughter to tell us what she wants for her graduation and she wanted a LV bag. Only because we pushed her, she still doesn't have it because she isn't sure she really wants one. Our parents (grandparents to kids) wanted to give her a gift, a necklace or a nice watch or whatever, so she remembers them and graduation but again, so far...nothing. She doesn't want or need anything. Same with the car: When we told her about the RR Evoque, she was so excited but there wasn't a single moment where she pushed us to get the car. Zero.

Like I said before, we have wonderful kids, I hope they always stay this way...shy, humble and very bright (if they need to be that way). I was different, my wife was even worse, so we really appreciate our kids and do everything for them as long as we can afford it. Do we spoil them? Not intentionally but of course we want them to be happy and to achieve something in life (this is why school is so important for us). Also, why should we lie: Our kids "represent" us, they are a mirror of our education and our lifestyle. Yes, we a different mentality regarding education (especially compared to the "typical" Germans) but it seems to work. Hopefully. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Carlos from Spain:

100%, realiability is a must, its part of the safety issue, thel ast thing you want is your 18yr old daughter stranded in the middle of the road somewhere because of a problem with the car.

Well, that just disqualified the Evoque 

2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

TB993tt:

RC:

throt:

and warranty on new.

Plus, when you hand the keys to your daughter she looks at you with a big smile. Happy days, If was worth it  ..

  True but honestly, with new cars, you barely have issues and you also feel good about yourself that you got your kid a new and safe car.

This is the fascinating bit for me as I think it may say more about your "feeling good about yourself issues" than anything else, the need to give one's child a brand new car I'm sure psychologists could have a field day with this one. OK if you are seriously rich and your child will always be seriously rich that is a different matter but if your child will have to fend for herself then how can it be a good thing to just give her a brand new car at 18 what does she learn from that about the real world which she presumably will have to enter at some point. When she graduates will her parents be leasing another car for her or will she have to downgrade to a car she can actually afford ?

It is a difficult subject, I have paid for my 17 (nearly 18) year old's mobile phone since she got it about 6 years ago and she asked me the other day if I will always be paying for her mobile phone, at this age they are learning about money big time and beginning to realise that there isn't an endless pot of it and that they have to prioritise what they spend THEIR money on, they watch you making extravagant purchases (R8s and 720's ) and they will be trying to work out how they fit into all of this.

It is a hard one and I'm sure RC's approach is just as valid as mine for him, we all want the best for our kids  

I think we all think the same here but it is a matter that some here consider the car a superficial thing, and others a safety issue. To me when thinking of my kid driving out there I want it to be in a reliable new car, with all the active and passive safety tech, no cheap parts and second hand tech like cheap cost cutting brands. And I want he/her to have a car early (even if its a family one that is shared but that is available to him/her), I don't want he/her to be driven around by others and put their safety on other young kid´s hands.

For me a car is primarily a safety issue, a basic thing you must provide to the best of your abilities for your child, no different than getting her the best healthcare available, or the best education you can pay for, or the healthiest and best quality food you feed her, or living in a good and safe neighborhood for them, etc... you can't take away those things for fear he/she will get spoiled by those things. The car is not a toy, there is a big safety implication in it, so to me it falls under the same category of the house and neighborhood you live in for example.

The parent's job is to educate the child since birth not to be spoiled by those things, and make then appreciate the ability to have those things and its importance and the need to work to continue to have that in the future, and provide them in turn for their own kids. It's the parent's job to make them understand the only reason they are getting the car, that is not really theirs until they pay for it themselves, and that they need to be ambitious and work hard for it and to buy the next one on their own. 

I'm not talking about superficial things, my daughter for example does not have a latest gen flagship phone, and but more importantly to me is that she doesn't even ask for one, understands why and she knows she can get one when she pays for it. If you have a child that you are bringing up like a spartan but is always asking for stuff and wanting you to buy it for them and is not motivated, then you failed.

Simply withholding them important certain things to avoid spoiling them doesn't really work IMO, the value of things is all relative, a 10k car can spoil one kid and a 50k one does not spoil another kid, its how the child is educated and what they see at home and the example their parents set. Parents who succeeded may think it due to the former, but IMO it was the latter what made them responsible and hard working kids 

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

bluelines:

Carlos from Spain:

100%, realiability is a must, its part of the safety issue, thel ast thing you want is your 18yr old daughter stranded in the middle of the road somewhere because of a problem with the car.

Well, that just disqualified the Evoque 

My daughters has been fine. Just the customer service at her centre, it’s a bit kack. Evoque sells very well here....

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

991 GT3.2 pick up April/May 2018. ( Hairy Chest Spec ).

Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Exclusive pick up June 2013. ( Shit Box )

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.

bluelines:

Carlos from Spain:

100%, realiability is a must, its part of the safety issue, thel ast thing you want is your 18yr old daughter stranded in the middle of the road somewhere because of a problem with the car.

Well, that just disqualified the Evoque 

 The Evoque is pretty reliable, I think you misunderstood that "service issue" post. Car needs to be serviced earlier than advertised but it is a very reliable car, including the engine. Most issues, especially with electronics, come from an "old" battery, easy to fix.

I really checked the internet for major issues but there are...none. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Most American kids have jobs. I started working when I was 14 and paid for half of my $2700 914 just prior to turning 16.  It never impacted my studies since I actually taught me hard work and time management. 

RC:

 

Most German buyers buy full optioned cars and furthermore, most of these smaller cars are second or third cars. Most family cars here are Audi A6, Mercedes E class, BMW 5 series, Audi Q5/Q7, Mercedes GLC/GLE or BMW X3/X5, something like that, very often station wagons. Most of them are definitely over 60-70 or even 80k EUR.

Most of the cars you listed are also very popular business cars, registered to businesses.

 

So If I summarize what you just wrote above is:

-Middle Class in Germany is super wealthy even if average salary is lower than France. Up to 3 cars...with first one over 60K

-Top 10 cars are most for businesses, Germany a country of business owners

I am indeed really clueless about the city you live in but with your description, there are some fancy cities in Germany that are on same level of Monaco to say the least or even wonderland...

Clueless is probably not the one you think is

back to basic and original subject, 50KE car for a new driver I start to understand the non-sense with the vision of the world around you. I will visit soon this place, let me know the area, I want to see with my eyes  German wealthy middle class

will even post the pics.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

Leawood911:

Most American kids have jobs. I started working when I was 14 and paid for half of my $2700 914 just prior to turning 16.  It never impacted my studies since I actually taught me hard work and time management. 

My daughter had school from 8 am to 5 pm, Monday to Friday and then studied til midnight, sometimes longer. Yeah, right, lots of time for a job.  Bavarian Abitur is no joke, especially if you want a good grade. The grade decides what you can study and what not, very very important.                                                

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Leawood911:

Most American kids have jobs. I started working when I was 14 and paid for half of my $2700 914 just prior to turning 16.  It never impacted my studies since I actually taught me hard work and time management. 

What, you paid half of $2700 for your first car? $2700 is the leather option usually...wow, you don't live in Germany for sure

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

RC:

 

Most German buyers buy full optioned cars and furthermore, most of these smaller cars are second or third cars. Most family cars here are Audi A6, Mercedes E class, BMW 5 series, Audi Q5/Q7, Mercedes GLC/GLE or BMW X3/X5, something like that, very often station wagons. Most of them are definitely over 60-70 or even 80k EUR.

Most of the cars you listed are also very popular business cars, registered to businesses.

 

So If I summarize what you just wrote above is:

-Middle Class in Germany is super wealthy even if average salary is lower than France. Up to 3 cars...with first one over 60K

I don't know about average salary in France but yes, German middle class does pretty well but even if not, people spend money, credits are cheap.

-Top 10 cars are most for businesses, Germany a country of business owners

No, Germany is a country of business cars which can be easily fiscally deducted.

I am indeed really clueless about the city you live in but with your description, there are some fancy cities in Germany that are on same level of Monaco to say the least or even wonderland...

Clueless is probably not the one you think is

back to basic and original subject, 50KE car for a new driver I start to understand the non-sense with the vision of the world around you. I will visit soon this place, let me know the area, I want to see with my eyes  German wealthy middle class

will even post the pics.

I pay 350 EUR per month for that RR...this is peanuts. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

the-missile:

Leawood911:

Most American kids have jobs. I started working when I was 14 and paid for half of my $2700 914 just prior to turning 16.  It never impacted my studies since I actually taught me hard work and time management. 

What, you paid half of $2700 for your first car? $2700 is the leather option usually...wow, you don't live in Germany for sure

That was for an Orange 1972 1.7 914 in 1979. So a seven year old car. I recall it had 72k miles at the time. It would be worth $10k today.  I’m sick about all those air cooled 911s I sold over the years for $20 k or less. 

Leawood911:

the-missile:

Leawood911:

Most American kids have jobs. I started working when I was 14 and paid for half of my $2700 914 just prior to turning 16.  It never impacted my studies since I actually taught me hard work and time management. 

What, you paid half of $2700 for your first car? $2700 is the leather option usually...wow, you don't live in Germany for sure

That was for an Orange 1972 1.7 914 in 1979. So a seven year old car. I recall it had 72k miles at the time. It would be worth $10k today.  I’m sick about all those air cooled 911s I sold over the years for $20 k or less. 

well done Sir. that was an excellent purchase. there is nothing less rewarding than setting this kind of goals.

Nothing was more challenging than saving few bucks here and there to get what you were dreaming for. You then can get what you wanted and you set the bar higher and the ball is rolling for the next goal.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

My first car cost £700 

Taught me how to fix cars, at least - and sparked a life-long interest in all things Porsche. Still got it too 

2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1

RC:

MKSGR:

RC:

I have to admit that the A45 attracts me most, I wouldn't really want my daughter to drive this car.

Had a similar offer for a RS3 sedan (worth around 73k) but it wasn't fully loaded and the car wasn't produced yet.

At this point, many dealers are trying to get rid of stock cars and cars without particulate filter, so some very nice deals are possible. The cash deal for this car would be 30%/(!) off (again, brand-new), so...

I am worried that in October, when the Mini JCW goes (and it has to go, buying price would be 20k, I'm not crazy), I won't find a car like the A45 for that kind of little money. 

Decisions... 

Why don't you buy a used (cheap) car for your daughter and get the A45 for yourself?

Too many cars and I want to get my daughter a new car, so no issues whatsoever. I never really wanted the A45 but it was a good occasion to get one "cheap". 

Right now, my daughter doesn't even have her driver's license yet and she is at home until next summer (when she hopefully knows what she wants to study...), so the RR Evoque makes most sense, since me and my wife can use the car as well for the city and skiing (wife). I can still get her something smaller at some point but probably also a lease, smaller new cars are around 150-200 EUR per month, no big deal. New car, no issues.

The Evoque is smaller than a Macan, so...

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

 

She will surely create "issues" with the car she uses (scratches, accidents etc.). A used car is perfect for beginners.

the-missile:

RC:

 

Most German buyers buy full optioned cars and furthermore, most of these smaller cars are second or third cars. Most family cars here are Audi A6, Mercedes E class, BMW 5 series, Audi Q5/Q7, Mercedes GLC/GLE or BMW X3/X5, something like that, very often station wagons. Most of them are definitely over 60-70 or even 80k EUR.

Most of the cars you listed are also very popular business cars, registered to businesses.

 

So If I summarize what you just wrote above is:

-Middle Class in Germany is super wealthy even if average salary is lower than France. Up to 3 cars...with first one over 60K

-Top 10 cars are most for businesses, Germany a country of business owners

I am indeed really clueless about the city you live in but with your description, there are some fancy cities in Germany that are on same level of Monaco to say the least or even wonderland...

Clueless is probably not the one you think is

back to basic and original subject, 50KE car for a new driver I start to understand the non-sense with the vision of the world around you. I will visit soon this place, let me know the area, I want to see with my eyes  German wealthy middle class

will even post the pics.

 

 

 

 

The statistics disregard that 30%-40% of Germany used to belong to the East Europe until 1989. Avarages are substantially lowered by East Germany, where income and wealth are far lower than in other parts of Germany. West Germany, and even more so Middle and South Germany is as rich as the highest ranking European states (richer than France, of course) or the US.

P.S.: if you merged Russia and the USA you would have a similar effect

Scratches, accidents? Who cares? This is a lease and I have insurance. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

MKSGR:

the-missile:

RC:

 

Most German buyers buy full optioned cars and furthermore, most of these smaller cars are second or third cars. Most family cars here are Audi A6, Mercedes E class, BMW 5 series, Audi Q5/Q7, Mercedes GLC/GLE or BMW X3/X5, something like that, very often station wagons. Most of them are definitely over 60-70 or even 80k EUR.

Most of the cars you listed are also very popular business cars, registered to businesses.

 

So If I summarize what you just wrote above is:

-Middle Class in Germany is super wealthy even if average salary is lower than France. Up to 3 cars...with first one over 60K

-Top 10 cars are most for businesses, Germany a country of business owners

I am indeed really clueless about the city you live in but with your description, there are some fancy cities in Germany that are on same level of Monaco to say the least or even wonderland...

Clueless is probably not the one you think is

back to basic and original subject, 50KE car for a new driver I start to understand the non-sense with the vision of the world around you. I will visit soon this place, let me know the area, I want to see with my eyes  German wealthy middle class

will even post the pics.

 

 

 

 

The statistics disregard that 30%-40% of Germany used to belong to the East Europe until 1989. Avarages are substantially lowered by East Germany, where income and wealth are far lower than in other parts of Germany. West Germany, and even more so Middle and South Germany is as rich as the highest ranking European states (richer than France, of course) or the US.

P.S.: if you merged Russia and the USA you would have a similar effect

 Bavaria is top... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

OK, we test-drove the 180 hp Diesel and the 240 hp petrol engine Evoque yesterday, both with Euro 6d temp certification btw., which is impressive.

The 180 hp Diesel is as lethargic as it can be, even for a beginner, this engine is really...how to put it...crap. Torque is massive (430 NM I think) but the engine feels powerful if you press the throttle half through only. I passed a tractor trailer on a country road with that car and the acceleration from 30 to 70 kph took like forever, in my opinion even a dangerous amount of time for passing. No surprise here, 180 hp for a 1.8 ton car...not really great. Over 90 kph, the speed barely increases, this is definitely a car for the city only, as sad it makes me to say it.

The 240 hp petrol engine isn't much better to my surprise but at least it feels a bit more direct (throttle response) and it accelerates in a decent amount of time if you want to pass another car or want to drive on the Autobahn.

I watched a US review with the 240 hp fuel engine (previous version) and they already claimed that the car is pretty slow, especially off the line (which of course is good for a beginner, my daughter doesn't need a rocket) but I didn't realize how slow until I actually drove it. Range Rover claims 0-100 kph in 7.2 seconds for this engine but honestly, it feels more like 9 seconds or so.

The ride itself is fantastic, very comfortable but stiff, almost sporty. Steering wheel is surprisingly direct but not as nervous as on my Mini JCW, which makes it perfect for a beginner.

Throttle response in standard mode (there is a S mode as well) is OK for a beginner, not too spontaneous, with the perfect amount of lag if someone has a trigger happy throttle foot.

So my wife and me decided to get the petrol version with 240 hp, it sounds a lot but it really isn't. My Mini JCW has 231 and feels like a race car compared to the Evoque with the 240 hp engine.

Build is very solid, doors close nicely and firmly, car doesn't make any noises, interior quality is at Mini Cooper/BMW X3 series level, which is OK. 

It is amazing how many options the special Black Edition has, only downside is that you cannot open the Panoramic roof, it is just a...Panoramic roof. Bummer. Rear view camera, various driving programs, leather seats, digital radio, alarm system (perimetric), 8-way adjustable electric seats, A/C, TPMS, RSC (Roll Stability Control), various other electronic drive assist systems like cornering break control or even torque vectoring, cruise control, winter package (heated windshield, heated windshield water system, etc.), 8'' navigation/entertainment system.

Navigation system/8'' display is not as fast/responsive as expected (I read reports that it is fast but it isn't). Speed-wise, it is somewhere between the Mini system and the E63S system, which is OK.

The standard sound system doesn't sound too well but even the optional Meridian system with I think 375 W isn't great. Not really a problem, the lack of CarPlay and/or Android Auto is a different story, it is a shame that Range Rover doesn't offer it for the Evoque.

Interior noise is excellent, very quiet and comfortable car, you won't hear much, not even from the engine or the tires.

The brake system is OK but I noticed that the car, when braking very hard, nose dives and the rear goes up strongly. Kids were almost thrown to the ceiling in the back, pretty weird. Maybe this helps to improve the braking distance but I have to admit that this was a first for me. Weird.

Fuel consumption of the 240 hp petrol engine is around 13-14 liters/100 km when driven hard, so this is quite OK for a 1.8 ton car with 240 hp. Haven't tried it on the Autobahn yet, so I expect something around 15-16 l/100 km when driven at higher speeds but maybe I'm wrong.

The car we get looks exactly like this one but this one is a Diesel and the petrol version comes in around mid of November.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Whilst I understand your rationale for this - I'm probably thankful that I'm not in the position to be able to do the same for my daughter. She "made do" with a 13 year old Ford Ka which we still have. Now, with a years claim free driving she's left to go you Uni and we will replace it with something a bit better - (she'll only need something when back from campus) but I'm actually looking forward to when she's able to afford a nice car of her own. 

BTW (almost completely unrelated but this is Rennteam) - at what point would you allow your daughter\son to stay over with their boyfriend\girlfriend?

991 Carrera Black Edition, XC90 Black\Black - 2 kids, 1 dog

Brand new fully optionned 13-14L per 100km first car with 0 income, not even graduated...life is great in Bavaria.

I am opening a file for adoption. I am 34, highly educated.

wish list is just a Rolls Royce Ghost, second hand low mileage is acceptable , I can take care of the maintenance costs and the petrol.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

bridggar:

Whilst I understand your rationale for this - I'm probably thankful that I'm not in the position to be able to do the same for my daughter. She "made do" with a 13 year old Ford Ka which we still have. Now, with a years claim free driving she's left to go you Uni and we will replace it with something a bit better - (she'll only need something when back from campus) but I'm actually looking forward to when she's able to afford a nice car of her own. 

BTW (almost completely unrelated but this is Rennteam) - at what point would you allow your daughter\son to stay over with their boyfriend\girlfriend?

My daughter is 17 but she usually comes home at 11 pm or midnight (when she is invited to birthday parties, etc., she doesn't go out otherwise, more interested in books and stuff than boys and parties ). She has no boyfriend yet, she has high standards , especially intellectually (seriously), so difficult... 

From a parental view, I would allow my kids to stay over (whole night) with their boyfriend/girlfriend at age 18. Seriously. I don't want them to form a too strong bond when they have to decide what they need to do with their future (education). If the bond is too strong (this happens if they stay together for too long in my opinion), this will have a serious impact with education. It happened to a friend of ours: The girlfriend of their son wanted to spend a year in New Zealand before she studies. They both went to New Zealand and separated after half a year, boy found a new girlfriend from Australia and now he is there for over two years and doesn't want to return. Parents already cut off the money but the boy has a job (with minimal pay, nothing fancy), so...  They had high hopes for him, he was top of his class but always had a weakness for his girlfriend and now for his new one.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

the-missile:

Brand new fully optionned 13-14L per 100km first car with 0 income, not even graduated...life is great in Bavaria.

I really think you don't fully read my posts...my English can't be that bad.  My daughter has graduated this year, she is among the top 10 of her year (260 kids). She can basically study whatever she wants but hasn't decided yet (medicine would be our choice but she is more into computer science and IT stuff). Her dreams are to work for NASA or Apple/Google but she is a kid, so it is good she has dreams. 

Yes, life is great for her because I am proud of her. Not as great as you think though when it comes to material things. She is not a demanding person at all.

"Good" kids get perks, this is how it is. No LV, Rolex or Lamborghini for her but a crappy RR Evoque she needs to share with her parents. Wow, we really spoil her.  

I am opening a file for adoption. I am 34, highly educated.

wish list is just a Rolls Royce Ghost, second hand low mileage is acceptable , I can take care of the maintenance costs and the petrol.

 

 

Maybe you should look for a better job? Kind of getting the feeling that you're not happy with your life.  

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

I really think you don't fully read my posts...my English can't be that bad.  My daughter has graduated this year, she is among the top 10 of her year (260 kids). She can basically study whatever she wants but hasn't decided yet (medicine would be our choice but she is more into computer science and IT stuff). Her dreams are to work for NASA or Apple/Google but she is a kid, so it is good she has dreams. 

Yes, life is great for her because I am proud of her. Not as great as you think though when it comes to material things. She is not a demanding person at all.

"Good" kids get perks, this is how it is. No LV, Rolex or Lamborghini for her but a crappy RR Evoque she needs to share with her parents. Wow, we really spoil her.  

 

 

Maybe you should look for a better job? Kind of getting the feeling that you're not happy with your life.  

Graduated with the equivalent of baccalaureat in France which means you are good to access to university...basically no graduation because this diploma worth nothing in work environment. 

Success in this diploma is 0 guarantee for results in university because you need to be an adult to manage there...but this is another debate in other chit chat. I understand your living style and the image associated to it but an Evoque at 18 is surely material at its best and very unnecessary  not coming from her as she is not demanding but relatively important for you apparently. 

My job is perfect, thanks for your concern. I don’t want to provide an extended list about it and all it brought to me from my starting job more than 10y ago and now.

I am just fascinated by multiple  pages of Internet forum for the very first car of a German kid, 100% paid by parents and explained and justified in all possible way by the financer. 

I hope to stay here long enough to see the future of all of this. 

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

RC:

MKSGR:

the-missile:

RC:

 

Most German buyers buy full optioned cars and furthermore, most of these smaller cars are second or third cars. Most family cars here are Audi A6, Mercedes E class, BMW 5 series, Audi Q5/Q7, Mercedes GLC/GLE or BMW X3/X5, something like that, very often station wagons. Most of them are definitely over 60-70 or even 80k EUR.

Most of the cars you listed are also very popular business cars, registered to businesses.

 

So If I summarize what you just wrote above is:

-Middle Class in Germany is super wealthy even if average salary is lower than France. Up to 3 cars...with first one over 60K

-Top 10 cars are most for businesses, Germany a country of business owners

I am indeed really clueless about the city you live in but with your description, there are some fancy cities in Germany that are on same level of Monaco to say the least or even wonderland...

Clueless is probably not the one you think is

back to basic and original subject, 50KE car for a new driver I start to understand the non-sense with the vision of the world around you. I will visit soon this place, let me know the area, I want to see with my eyes  German wealthy middle class

will even post the pics.

 

 

 

 

The statistics disregard that 30%-40% of Germany used to belong to the East Europe until 1989. Avarages are substantially lowered by East Germany, where income and wealth are far lower than in other parts of Germany. West Germany, and even more so Middle and South Germany is as rich as the highest ranking European states (richer than France, of course) or the US.

P.S.: if you merged Russia and the USA you would have a similar effect

 Bavaria is top... 

The beer at least 

the-missile:

 

Graduated with the equivalent of baccalaureat in France which means you are good to access to university...basically no graduation because this diploma worth nothing in work environment. 

In Germany, even if you finish university, bigger companies look at the graduation (baccalaureate, called Abitur in Germany) marks and some companies even at the grades of the 10th class, I'm not kidding. Especially when they have a lot of requests for a certain (limited) job position, they look at these grades as well. Not often but it happens. 

However, the baccalaureate result is important for what you can study. Similar to the US, you can only study certain things with a very good grade. Most difficult ones are medicine (incl. dentistry) and pharmacy but even for law and economics, you need a good grade, same applies to many engineering jobs. If you mess up baccalaureate, the chances are that you are going to end up studying something you don't really want to study. 

Success in this diploma is 0 guarantee for results in university because you need to be an adult to manage there...but this is another debate in other chit chat. I understand your living style and the image associated to it but an Evoque at 18 is surely material at its best and very unnecessary  not coming from her as she is not demanding but relatively important for you apparently. 

It is important to me to provide my kid with a trouble-free and safe car. Most of our friends do the same. I know many parents in the US who buy their kids a G class, Mustang or some big ass V8 SUV for 60k USD and more. If you can afford it, I do not see the problem. Not buying her a Ferrari. 

My job is perfect, thanks for your concern. I don’t want to provide an extended list about it and all it brought to me from my starting job more than 10y ago and now.

I had to wonder... 

I am just fascinated by multiple  pages of Internet forum for the very first car of a German kid, 100% paid by parents and explained and justified in all possible way by the financer. 

Again, this is a cheap (for us) lease. I only explained and justified because you had problems understanding. 

I hope to stay here long enough to see the future of all of this. 

I'll tell you when my daughter starts working at NASA...  

Btw: My parents and my wife's parents weren't different. Now look at us. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

In Germany, even if you finish university, bigger companies look at the graduation (baccalaureate, called Abitur in Germany) marks and some companies even at the grades of the 10th class, I'm not kidding. Especially when they have a lot of requests for a certain (limited) job position, they look at these grades as well. Not often but it happens. 

Employer will care at the name of your university first and the rank that you achieved, the baccalaureat is just a formality. studies are not the same as they were before especially when you were a student. level went down and down since the past 15 years. baccalaureat is a joke now.

It is important to me to provide my kid with a trouble-free and safe car. Most of our friends do the same.  If you can afford it, I do not see the problem. Not buying her a Ferrari. 

I got that but still remains unnecessary luxury for a kid if you want to understand my point. affording it is not even in the equation. it is about the image you send by doing this; for the kid, for his/her friends, the rest fo the people in the street, the future and what hard earned money can bring you. life is unfortunately not that simple.

Again, this is a cheap (for us) lease. I only explained and justified because you had problems understanding. 

Cheap for you but if she has to pay for it tomorrow? is it still cheap? what value this thing will teach her? see another aspect than just ''I can afford and I will look good in front of friends.''

no issue on understanding, more issue on the sense of doing this.

I'll tell you when my daughter starts working at NASA...  

good lord, superman will have a kid in space I hope for her the best, university will change anyone to the good or wrong way. You can be lost pretty quickly there because you are far from family and live on your own.

Btw: My parents and my wife's parents weren't different. Now look at us. 

then the future is not bright 

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

RC:

In Germany, even if you finish university, bigger companies look at the graduation (baccalaureate, called Abitur in Germany) marks and some companies even at the grades of the 10th class, I'm not kidding. Especially when they have a lot of requests for a certain (limited) job position, they look at these grades as well. Not often but it happens. 

Employer will care at the name of your university first and the rank that you achieved, the baccalaureat is just a formality. studies are not the same as they were before especially when you were a student. level went down and down since the past 15 years. baccalaureat is a joke now.

You clearly have no clue about the baccalaureate in Bavaria...  Again, bigger companies look at the grades when they have lots of candidates with similar qualifications applying for same job. This is a reality here, not sure about other countries though.

It is important to me to provide my kid with a trouble-free and safe car. Most of our friends do the same.  If you can afford it, I do not see the problem. Not buying her a Ferrari. 

I got that but still remains unnecessary luxury for a kid if you want to understand my point. affording it is not even in the equation. it is about the image you send by doing this; for the kid, for his/her friends, the rest fo the people in the street, the future and what hard earned money can bring you. life is unfortunately not that simple.

RR Evoque is luxury for you? May I ask again what job you have and what car you drive? 

Again, this is a cheap (for us) lease. I only explained and justified because you had problems understanding. 

Cheap for you but if she has to pay for it tomorrow? is it still cheap? what value this thing will teach her? see another aspect than just ''I can afford and I will look good in front of friends.''

Her friends usually have more (brands) stuff than her and their parents can actually afford less.  You clearly have no clue how things work here. Also, most of her friends are "gone" after she finished school, she only has one real friend left and she has everything she needs as well, don't see any issues here. I don't know where you live, where you went to school and what neighborhood you were in but while there is a lot of envy here, people aren't poor and most middle class people have nice things. A 20000 EUR watch is something special, even a R8 is special but a RR Evoque? Not really. Most cars the kids drive here in my neighborhood are worth 25-60k EUR, depends...our direct neighbor leased two Mini Cooper for his daughters, the son of my wife's best friend drives a VW Tiguan (he shares it with his mother but he drives it most of the time because they have a second car, a Mini Countryman, as well...for the mother). If I don't remember wrong, the Tiguan was the same price as the Evoque, around 52k EUR. There is also that guy with the A45 and of course there are many more kids here driving around in the parents' second or third car, including some pretty expensive Audis, BMWs and Mercedes.

no issue on understanding, more issue on the sense of doing this.

I'll tell you when my daughter starts working at NASA...  

good lord, superman will have a kid in space I hope for her the best, university will change anyone to the good or wrong way. You can be lost pretty quickly there because you are far from family and live on your own.

Like I said, we are and always were close when it comes to family but if my daughter wants to live and work far away from us, no problem. Would be a bit sad of course but she needs to have her own life as well. 

Btw: My parents and my wife's parents weren't different. Now look at us. 

then the future is not bright 

Yeah, we did pretty bad for us. 

I see a second bluelines on the rise, you're sure you're French and not Swedish?  

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

I think whilst the missile may be being relatively aggressive in his taunts I would think that the vast majority on here would be agreeing with most of what he says, of course it doesn't matter to you but it is an interesting thread.

Is there any way we can do polls on this forum, I'd love to do one on this subject ?

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

2018 McLaren 720S 

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.