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    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Kreso thanks for the link. I had not seen before. Excellent description of the course and how to drive it.

    Who owns, manages and maintains the Ring? All those bumpy sections would be a gold mine for US lawyers.



    And here is a flying lap on the RING.

    And another... Elise vs C5





    how about a 98 year model of lotus exige s1 race vs those gt car in aus gt!?

    video to proved

    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doci...M59jt6JAqz9ybwB

    that is why i rather stick with my elise s1
    and change it to honda k20a engine for racing!

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:

    Maybe Australia is different from Europe? Also, in the US I could understand people ordering a GTR as Nissans are quite common there.

    On the other hand, a Nissan in Europe would be regarded as a first indication that things are going bad - financially speaking



    This must win the prize for the most condescending and superficial post on this thread.



    Nope, I think you took that title with this one:

    Quote:
    ADias said:

    When members bring to the table, image, prestige and price... that's another game all together - spinning at its best. "Car guys" think and act differently.




    People that don't like the GT-R aren't car guys? Does that imply that "car guys" shouldn't be able to formulate their own opinion?

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:

    Maybe Australia is different from Europe? Also, in the US I could understand people ordering a GTR as Nissans are quite common there.

    On the other hand, a Nissan in Europe would be regarded as a first indication that things are going bad - financially speaking



    This must win the prize for the most condescending and superficial post on this thread.



    Nope, I think you took that title with this one:

    Quote:
    ADias said:

    When members bring to the table, image, prestige and price... that's another game all together - spinning at its best. "Car guys" think and act differently.




    People that don't like the GT-R aren't car guys? Does that imply that "car guys" shouldn't be able to formulate their own opinion?




    Not even close and certainly no cigar. "Car guys" are not condescending and "car guys" do not discount a car like the GT-R for its looks and "car guys" do not need to defend their positions, and even less measure others by the cars they drive.

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    I didn't know rich people were such suckers .

    Just kidding, of course, but I think Markus was referring more to Europe than anywhere else. Most affluent consumers here won't even give it a second glance. Who knows, maybe that's because us european men are feminine (credit: ADias) and carry purses (credit: vinnie) .



    hahaha.

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    ADias said:

    Not even close and certainly no cigar. "Car guys" are not condescending and "car guys" do not discount a car like the GT-R for its looks and "car guys" do not need to defend their positions, and even less measure others by the cars they drive.



    You are certainly expending a lot of energy trying to prove it. I have two problems with the GT-R.

    I think it's ugly for one, and it really is. When you were 8 years old and a Ferrari drove past, did you say, "Gee, I wonder how fast that thing does the 'ring", or did you just stare at its beauty and enjoy the sound? I was born a "car guy", always have been, always will be. I appreciate automotive design, always have, always will. For example, I love Mopar muscle cars including the bizarre colors. Others find them ugly, but as a "car guy", I don't care what others think, and I'm comfortable enough in that statement that don't feel the need to berate others for not sharing my opinion.

    My second problem with the GT-R is that something ain't right in Denmark here. A 3800lb car with 473HP can't do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds. It's not possible given what people know of basic physics. I'm not saying the car can't do it, but if it can it's got more than 473HP. The quarter mile time is too quick for a car with 473HP too. Maybe the GT-R can do the 'ring in 7:40 or less, that's great. It's a good value, for sure. I think the car is basically a factory-tuned Skyline that makes a lot more than the stated HP, probably closer to 550 at the flywheel with a little extra over-boost when you activate launch control. I think Nissan did this as a marketing initiative. I also feel that they are losing money on the car. Why? I find it strange that the Skyline is the king of the tuner crowd, however Nissan has gone so far as to lock their computer code down on this model to prevent tampering. I think they are hiding something that would indicate true HP and torque numbers.

    There are tons of tuned Skyline's and Impreza's that can put up these numbers and much, much higher. The only difference is that this one is a factory car with a warranty. That's great, seriously, and it's the best thing about the car.

    So for the factory to put out such numbers and say the car has 473HP and weighs 3800lbs is insulting to me, because as a "car guy", I know that something doesn't fit here. Think about it; if they put out those performance numbers but said the car makes 540HP and close to 580HP in launch control mode it wouldn't hold the same fascination, would it? Then it would be 599 territory. To believe that a 3800lb, 473HP GT-R has a quicker 0-60 time than a 3750lb, 612HP 599 because of magic bearings or something borders on idiotic.

    (I know the Ferrari is more expensive, I used it as the example because of the weight and performance times to illustrate what you can actually expect 600HP to do to a 3800lb car.)


    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:

    Not even close and certainly no cigar. "Car guys" are not condescending and "car guys" do not discount a car like the GT-R for its looks and "car guys" do not need to defend their positions, and even less measure others by the cars they drive.



    You are certainly expending a lot of energy trying to prove it. I have two problems with the GT-R.

    I think it's ugly for one, and it really is. When you were 8 years old and a Ferrari drove past, did you say, "Gee, I wonder how fast that thing does the 'ring", or did you just stare at its beauty and enjoy the sound? I was born a "car guy", always have been, always will be. I appreciate automotive design, always have, always will. For example, I love Mopar muscle cars including the bizarre colors. Others find them ugly, but as a "car guy", I don't care what others think, and I'm comfortable enough in that statement that don't feel the need to berate others for not sharing my opinion.

    My second problem with the GT-R is that something ain't right in Denmark here. A 3800lb car with 473HP can't do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds. It's not possible given what people know of basic physics. I'm not saying the car can't do it, but if it can it's got more than 473HP. The quarter mile time is too quick for a car with 473HP too. Maybe the GT-R can do the 'ring in 7:40 or less, that's great. It's a good value, for sure. I think the car is basically a factory-tuned Skyline that makes a lot more than the stated HP, probably closer to 550 at the flywheel with a little extra over-boost when you activate launch control. I think Nissan did this as a marketing initiative. I also feel that they are losing money on the car. Why? I find it strange that the Skyline is the king of the tuner crowd, however Nissan has gone so far as to lock their computer code down on this model to prevent tampering. I think they are hiding something that would indicate true HP and torque numbers.

    There are tons of tuned Skyline's and Impreza's that can put up these numbers and much, much higher. The only difference is that this one is a factory car with a warranty. That's great, seriously, and it's the best thing about the car.

    So for the factory to put out such numbers and say the car has 473HP and weighs 3800lbs is insulting to me, because as a "car guy", I know that something doesn't fit here. Think about it; if they put out those performance numbers but said the car makes 540HP and close to 580HP in launch control mode it wouldn't hold the same fascination, would it? Then it would be 599 territory. To believe that a 3800lb, 473HP GT-R has a quicker 0-60 time than a 3750lb, 612HP 599 because of magic bearings or something borders on idiotic.

    (I know the Ferrari is more expensive, I used it as the example because of the weight and performance times to illustrate what you can actually expect 600HP to do to a 3800lb car.)





    OK, OK! You are a certified "car guy."

    Just a comment - For 0-60 you do not need peak HP. You need torque and the proper gearing.

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    FWIW the GTR is doing ok but nowhere near "spanking" the competition at the One Lap of America. As a matter of fact it is behind an E36M3 in points as of today, and getting routinely beaten at various tracks by the ACR Viper (Hennessey), a 420hp Cayman, a 996 GT3, a 996TT, an M5, and even today to an SRT-4 Dodge. Today at my home track of TWS, despite the advantage of AWD it was turning some 15 seconds slower per lap than the RWD ACR Viper in the rain.

    all the lap times are being posted here:

    http://onelapofamerica.com/history/results.shtml?y=2008

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Comes down to driver I guess. The GT-R also ran at Targa Tasmania (by the CEO of Donut King Australia of all people) and it didn't do spectacularly either prior to it's retirement.

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time


    Why is V. Horst slower than most drivers on the Ring?

    +++ HvS is one of the fastest drivers at the Ring. In the CGT and GT2 his times are within a few seconds of Walter R.

    The big difference (14 seconds) is with the 997 Turbo. Perhaps this is because the Turbo has unpredictable handling at the limit and only Walter R is skilled, familiar and brave enough to extract its best time.

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    AUM said:

    Why is V. Horst slower than most drivers on the Ring?

    +++ HvS is one of the fastest drivers at the Ring. In the CGT and GT2 his times are within a few seconds of Walter R.

    The big difference (14 seconds) is with the 997 Turbo. Perhaps this is because the Turbo has unpredictable handling at the limit and only Walter R is skilled, familiar and brave enough to extract its best time.



    Excellent answer AUM!

    We also forgot that Horst did 8.03min with Aston V8 Vantage(ok, with Corsas) and that he admit that Aston was easier car to drive on the limit then 997 Carrera S...

    Most of the times Horst is very, very close to factory times(within 1s-3s). Only two big difference cases are Audi R8(Audi claim 7.55min-driver F-Stippler, Horst did 8.04min) and Porsche 997 Turbo(Rohrl 7.40min, Horst did 7.52min with second sample of 997TT). So, if we are trully asking for truth liers are Porsche and Audi(but, not really since you explained that pretty much as I did in my previous posts)...

    Problem is that I seriously doubt that ANY EU specs LHD GT-R will be capable to do 7.29min... Put Suzuki in EU specs LHD GT-R... My bet? At least 5s slower then HIS RHD test mule...

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Oh! I just saw an email from Nissan Europe... GT-R sales in EU is moved to late April 2009(from early March 2009) and realistic expectation for true sale start in mid May 2009!

    ...because of recent suspension changes

    I am giving up this car...

    MAY 2009... Potential sale start in EU...

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:

    Maybe Australia is different from Europe? Also, in the US I could understand people ordering a GTR as Nissans are quite common there.

    On the other hand, a Nissan in Europe would be regarded as a first indication that things are going bad - financially speaking



    This must win the prize for the most condescending and superficial post on this thread.



    Why? The point of the post is that in Europe a GTR is a low-budget car and will be regarded as such by most people (including 99% of car nuts)

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Carlos, thank you for answering my question. I will keep your answer for future reference.


    BTW here is an article from CAR magazine as to how the GT-R accomplished the 7.29 time. More interesting, it discusses the demand for the car.

    http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Industry-News/Nissan-GT-R-to-be-revised-for-Europe/



    1,000 ordered just in the UK. Oh, boy... a lot of European sports cars enthusiasts are going to be looked down by their peers... and viewed as financial failures. This is serious.



    Depends. If you upgrade from a Golf R32 or M3 or an older Nissan you actually improve your position by buying the GTR. If you ask me that will apply to 99% of GTR buyers

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Oh! I just saw an email from Nissan Europe... GT-R sales in EU is moved to late April 2009(from early March 2009) and realistic expectation for true sale start in mid May 2009!

    ...because of recent suspension changes

    I am giving up this car...

    MAY 2009... Potential sale start in EU...



    Maybe this is a reaction to the recent NBR lap time announcement? Their logic might be: the later all this blows up the better. Why not delay the first sales to 2010. We could then compare the car to the new 998TT All this is so funny. Some guys get really excited about rumoured and faked lap times of a prototype car. Really funny indeed. Why don't these guys focus on cars which can also be bought

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    I agree with you fully!

    In EU GT-R is a GHOST.

    May 2009. Nissan must be kidding with potential EU costumers...

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Unless you want a US import from a German Nissan dealer on mobile.de

    Nissan GTR. Jetzt bestellen, Aug/Sept 2008 übernehmen - EUR 89,750

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Oh! I just saw an email from Nissan Europe... GT-R sales in EU is moved to late April 2009(from early March 2009) and realistic expectation for true sale start in mid May 2009!

    ...because of recent suspension changes

    I am giving up this car...

    MAY 2009... Potential sale start in EU...



    KresoF1, do you know if there will be any changes to the GT-R's specs in order to comply with EU regulations?... if it ever comes to Europe before it becomes outdated.

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    ADias said:


    OK, OK! You are a certified "car guy."

    Just a comment - For 0-60 you do not need peak HP. You need torque and the proper gearing.



    GT-R - 430lbs claimed, 599 - 448lbs claimed. I read that the GT-R has been dyno'd at around 450lbs at the wheels. Maybe they have found a way to reduce drive line loss to +10%!

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:

    Most of the times Horst is very, very close to factory times(within 1s-3s). Only two big difference cases are Audi R8(Audi claim 7.55min-driver F-Stippler, Horst did 8.04min) and Porsche 997 Turbo(Rohrl 7.40min, Horst did 7.52min with second sample of 997TT). So, if we are trully asking for truth liers are Porsche and Audi(but, not really since you explained that pretty much as I did in my previous posts)...





    Re. the 997tt, I would rather compare WR'S 7.40 with HvS'S 7.54, as these two times were performed with the first technical definition of the car.

    Sport Auto's 7.54 comes after technical revisions, in fact I would expect WR to be faster than 7.40 (if he was not lying in the first place as we know how doubtful factory claims are) with the current chassis set-up and optimum specification (PCCB, bucket seats,etc).

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Maybe this is a reaction to the recent NBR lap time announcement? Their logic might be: the later all this blows up the better. Why not delay the first sales to 2010. We could then compare the car to the new 998TT All this is so funny. Some guys get really excited about rumoured and faked lap times of a prototype car. Really funny indeed. Why don't these guys focus on cars which can also be bought



    LOL

    Well I always wonder why people,who don't have any driving skills whatsoever,buy Porsches or Ferraris,Paganis,etc.

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:

    Why is V. Horst slower than most drivers on the Ring?

    +++ HvS is one of the fastest drivers at the Ring. In the CGT and GT2 his times are within a few seconds of Walter R.

    The big difference (14 seconds) is with the 997 Turbo. Perhaps this is because the Turbo has unpredictable handling at the limit and only Walter R is skilled, familiar and brave enough to extract its best time.



    Excellent answer AUM!

    We also forgot that Horst did 8.03min with Aston V8 Vantage(ok, with Corsas) and that he admit that Aston was easier car to drive on the limit then 997 Carrera S...

    Most of the times Horst is very, very close to factory times(within 1s-3s). Only two big difference cases are Audi R8(Audi claim 7.55min-driver F-Stippler, Horst did 8.04min) and Porsche 997 Turbo(Rohrl 7.40min, Horst did 7.52min with second sample of 997TT). So, if we are trully asking for truth liers are Porsche and Audi(but, not really since you explained that pretty much as I did in my previous posts)...

    Problem is that I seriously doubt that ANY EU specs LHD GT-R will be capable to do 7.29min... Put Suzuki in EU specs LHD GT-R... My bet? At least 5s slower then HIS RHD test mule...



    Well I just looked at the Nurburgring lap times list and there are many examples of big differences between claimed and Sport Auto lap times.

    The Corvette C6 was 15 seconds slower in the hand of Horst. The Cayman was also much slower than the claimed lap time.

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Wow, more than 200 post for this topic. I wonder if lap times are really all that important to a porsche owner. I guess the Nurburgring is the premiere benchmark.

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    To experience the full, gut-churning potential of Nissan's 2009 GT-R, you have to ride shotgun with Tochio Suzuki.

    The legendary test driver took automotive writers for hot laps around the Autodromo Fernanda Pires Da Silva in Estoril, Portugal, recently as part of the 2009 model's introduction.

    Suzuki still had his mojo working a few days after setting a record time for the GT-R of 7 minutes, 29 seconds at Germany's 22-kilometer Nurburgring. That shaved 9 seconds off the previous record and bolstered the GT-R's status as one of the fastest production cars in existence.

    Even drivers who can't make it to the track can confirm the GT-R's 0-60 mph time of between 3.2 and 3.8 seconds.

    A video game-inspired screen at the center of the dash displays mechanical and driving data, including a timer and information on acceleration, brake pedal pressure, steering angle and a recording function with playback. With Suzuki at the wheel, the screen was flashing out graphs and numbers like a HAL 9000 on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

    At Estoril's nearly 2.6-mile track with four left turns and nine to the right, Suzuki drove a right-hand version of the GT-R over a period of several hours.

    To say he put it to the test would be an understatement. On all 13 corners, Suzuki worked the throttle, brakes, steering wheel and paddle shifters with such skill that even other experienced race drivers at the track were in awe.

    "His consistency is absolutely amazing," said one. "No one else can do the things he does."

    On all the turns, Suzuki managed to drift through the corners while accelerating, which is challenging with an all-wheel-drive car. Through a slalom run, Suzuki never touched the brakes as he whipped through the cones at speeds in excess of 70 mph.

    No video game can capture the g-forces that tug at a high-performance car, even in such skilled hands. You really don't have time to be afraid.

    http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/32994

    By RICHARD WILLIAMSON, Scripps Howard News Service

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Yesterday on a automotive congress I heard some rumors :

    The forthcoming facelift of GT2 will be built in China. Porsche made a joint venture with Nissan and they want to share the GT-R platform with the GT2 car body.

    The European spec of the GT-R will have less HP and more weight to improve the existing NS record. Target : 7.15.

    At the end of this year Carlos Ghosn will announce that the facelift of the GT-R will crack the all time NS record. They plan a lap time under 7.00 minutes. To achieve this, some slight changes of the interior and a software update of the 4WD will be necessary.

    Aston Martin hired the responsible GT-R designer for their future designs.

    Nissan plan to open a driving school where Suzuki san gives some lessons of "how to drive a test mule fast on the NS". First members: Walter Roehrl, H.v.S and Sabine Schmitz.

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    turbosteff said:
    Yesterday on a automotive congress I heard some rumors :

    The forthcoming facelift of GT2 will be built in China. Porsche made a joint venture with Nissan and they want to share the GT-R platform with the GT2 car body.

    The European spec of the GT-R will have less HP and more weight to improve the existing NS record. Target : 7.15.

    At the end of this year Carlos Ghosn will announce that the facelift of the GT-R will crack the all time NS record. They plan a lap time under 7.00 minutes. To achieve this, some slight changes of the interior and a software update of the 4WD will be necessary.

    Aston Martin hired the responsible GT-R designer for their future designs.

    Nissan plan to open a driving school where Suzuki san gives some lessons of "how to drive a test mule fast on the NS". First members: Walter Roehrl, H.v.S and Sabine Schmitz.



    What a coincidence, I heard the same!!!

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    You guys heard wrong!

    Porsche will dump the flat-6 and install in all the upcoming FL 2009 models Nissan's V6 3.8L TT from Carrera 2 upto CGT!

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    SadoTorque said:
    Wow, more than 200 post for this topic. I wonder if lap times are really all that important to a porsche owner. I guess the Nurburgring is the premiere benchmark.



    It's the closest track to real world conditions, hence the interest.

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:
    Quote:
    SadoTorque said:
    Wow, more than 200 post for this topic. I wonder if lap times are really all that important to a porsche owner. I guess the Nurburgring is the premiere benchmark.



    It's the closest track to real world conditions, hence the interest.



    Funny thing is, why one refers to Porsche owners in particular. It is one thing to discuss the record laptime's credibility but this still does not mean every one who is hesitant towards that performance has to defend his or her purchase. One last remark about those mentioned laptimes, whatever a consecutively achievable laptime in those cars will be, Porsche finally received some serious competition on the market. Good for all of us.

    However realistic this laptime is, first of all we are comparing apples to oranges. One would have to compare consistant performance of one single driver, not various drivers' performance under different circumstances. Aum's above post shows the skill and knowledge influcential factory drivers put into their particular cars, no matter if they work for Porsche, Nissan or any other manufacturer. That alone should answer the difference in laptimes of factory and media. It becomes obvious that v. Saurma's laptimes usually show an impact if cars tend to get difficult to handle. For me personally, this is an advantage since every car enthusiast or amateur driver will experience the same. Ever wondered why Porsche did not announce an official laptime for the Carrera GT?

    Instead of bragging about these laptimes, some people should get out and improve their driving skills on the track. Especially if their last track visit has been several years ago...

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Exactly, this just shows SA has the right method: ONE driver, same track...

    Re: Sport Auto posts 7.29 GTR time

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Ever wondered why Porsche did not announce an official laptime for the Carrera GT?



    I am wondering, please tell me why because I want to know.

     
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