Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997.2 Brochure - Page37

Apr 27, 2008 3:38:02 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: PDK.....

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
We can agree that we disagree here big time.

Paddles are on follwing cars and sportscars:

Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Audi(R8, TTS)
BMW M models(SMGIII and M-DCT)
Ferrari(all models)
Lamborghini(all models)
Nissan GT-R

as well as on Jaguar XKR and some others.

Solution that you like(paddle buttons with +/- for both left and rigth hand) is only on Porsche TIP cars and BMW Automatic cars...

Please enlight us all here with what fingers would you change a gears with puddle buttons?
Thumb?
Nissan GT-R

The new buttons appear different from the tip ones.Judging from the Panamera wheel they are longer than tip. I expect you would be eble to push (+) using thump and pull(-) using pointer finger. Besides the stick will be available if at the given moment it suits more, an option that the other cars don't have.
My preference for using either hand, is based on the fact that at the moment I wish to change gear one hand might suit me more than the other because of the position of the steering wheel or the position of my hands on the wheel.
Of course each person has different preferences and tastes and what I like cannot be a rule.

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Apr 27, 2008 4:19:00 PM

997nipandtuck: Newbie; Loc: US & UK , United States; Posts: 20, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 19, 2008; Reply to: reginos

Re: PDK.....

Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
We can agree that we disagree here big time.

Paddles are on follwing cars and sportscars:

Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Audi(R8, TTS)
BMW M models(SMGIII and M-DCT)
Ferrari(all models)
Lamborghini(all models)
Nissan GT-R

as well as on Jaguar XKR and some others.

Solution that you like(paddle buttons with +/- for both left and rigth hand) is only on Porsche TIP cars and BMW Automatic cars...

Please enlight us all here with what fingers would you change a gears with puddle buttons?
Thumb?
Nissan GT-R

The new buttons appear different from the tip ones.Judging from the Panamera wheel they are longer than tip. I expect you would be eble to push (+) using thump and pull(-) using pointer finger. Besides the stick will be available if at the given moment it suits more, an option that the other cars don't have.
My preference for using either hand, is based on the fact that at the moment I wish to change gear one hand might suit me more than the other because of the position of the steering wheel or the position of my hands on the wheel.
Of course each person has different preferences and tastes and what I like cannot be a rule.

Audi TT has paddles and stick for shifting it's DSG transmission.

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Apr 27, 2008 4:27:20 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: 997nipandtuck

Re: PDK.....

Quote:
997nipandtuck said:
Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
We can agree that we disagree here big time.

Paddles are on follwing cars and sportscars:

Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Audi(R8, TTS)
BMW M models(SMGIII and M-DCT)
Ferrari(all models)
Lamborghini(all models)
Nissan GT-R

as well as on Jaguar XKR and some others.

Solution that you like(paddle buttons with +/- for both left and rigth hand) is only on Porsche TIP cars and BMW Automatic cars...

Please enlight us all here with what fingers would you change a gears with puddle buttons?
Thumb?
Nissan GT-R

The new buttons appear different from the tip ones.Judging from the Panamera wheel they are longer than tip. I expect you would be eble to push (+) using thump and pull(-) using pointer finger. Besides the stick will be available if at the given moment it suits more, an option that the other cars don't have.
My preference for using either hand, is based on the fact that at the moment I wish to change gear one hand might suit me more than the other because of the position of the steering wheel or the position of my hands on the wheel.
Of course each person has different preferences and tastes and what I like cannot be a rule.

Audi TT has paddles and stick for shifting it's DSG transmission.

The issue here is whether a system with a + paddle on one side and a - paddle on the other side is preferable to buttons that do both + and - on either side.

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Apr 27, 2008 4:47:51 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: PDK.....

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
We can agree that we disagree here big time.

Paddles are on follwing cars and sportscars:

Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Audi(R8, TTS)
BMW M models(SMGIII and M-DCT)
Ferrari(all models)
Lamborghini(all models)
Nissan GT-R

as well as on Jaguar XKR and some others.

Solution that you like(paddle buttons with +/- for both left and rigth hand) is only on Porsche TIP cars and BMW Automatic cars...

Please enlight us all here with what fingers would you change a gears with puddle buttons?
Thumb?
Nissan GT-R

I agree. Drove a C4S Tip and absolutely hated the buttons. Just left it in Auto after that.

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Apr 27, 2008 4:58:09 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: PDK.....

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
We can agree that we disagree here big time.

Paddles are on follwing cars and sportscars:

Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Audi(R8, TTS)
BMW M models(SMGIII and M-DCT)
Ferrari(all models)
Lamborghini(all models)
Nissan GT-R

as well as on Jaguar XKR and some others.

Solution that you like(paddle buttons with +/- for both left and rigth hand) is only on Porsche TIP cars and BMW Automatic cars...

Please enlight us all here with what fingers would you change a gears with puddle buttons?
Thumb?
Nissan GT-R

I agree. Drove a C4S Tip and absolutely hated the buttons. Just left it in Auto after that.

Yes but with tip you cannot change gear using the stick, like with DSG/PDK. I would use buttons only to overide auto selection whenever I needed to, and the stick for manual driving. Moreover I expect the PDK buttons to be different and better in function and ergonomy compared to tip.

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Apr 27, 2008 5:10:20 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: reginos

Re: PDK.....

Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
Rossi said:
Quote:
Italo said:
Quote:
Seraphim said:
With PDK can we expect a tiptronic style gear shifter as well? Personally I hope porsche get rid of the gear selector all together. I like the way Ferrari and Lambo do it.

that's what we are all hoping for but it seems Porsche have come up with another funny looking device....Spooks' ears poking out from the steering wheel :a

The new-style-PDK-gear-shifter has been shown here in the inofficial PET-document.

Unfortunately the gear-lever looked suspiciously close to the current tiptronic-selector...

It cannot be the same because with DSG you can select gears by using the gear lever. In VW the wheel paddles are even optional extras.
I've seen the whole of the PET pdf and I can tell you the illustrations are not always accurate, because they are intended for a different purpose and it is not a brochure. For example the 997.2 front bumper appears in the PET the same shape as the 997.1 one and the new steering wheel appears as a very vague drawing that doesn't resemble a PDK wheel. So just wait until a good person scans a brochure for rennteam.com.

Read carefully.

I did not say that the gear lever will be the same but that PDK and tiptronic selector will be similar. That was confirmed by Kreso BTW.

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Apr 27, 2008 5:16:33 PM

Italo: Veteran; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 1055, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2007; Reply to: reginos

Re: PDK.....

Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
We can agree that we disagree here big time.

Paddles are on follwing cars and sportscars:

Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Audi(R8, TTS)
BMW M models(SMGIII and M-DCT)
Ferrari(all models)
Lamborghini(all models)
Nissan GT-R

as well as on Jaguar XKR and some others.

Solution that you like(paddle buttons with +/- for both left and rigth hand) is only on Porsche TIP cars and BMW Automatic cars...

Please enlight us all here with what fingers would you change a gears with puddle buttons?
Thumb?
Nissan GT-R

I agree. Drove a C4S Tip and absolutely hated the buttons. Just left it in Auto after that.

Yes but with tip you cannot change gear using the stick, like with DSG/PDK. I would use buttons only to overide auto selection whenever I needed to, and the stick for manual driving. Moreover I expect the PDK buttons to be different and better in function and ergonomy compared to tip.

I'm sure we can argue for a long timeon the flappy paddles or the button,my personal preference is the flappy paddles. It's not just about the functionality but also about the feeling it gives the driver. The flappy paddles as seen in Ferraris and Lambos give the driver a certain sense/urge of sportiness once you sit behind the wheel. I'm sure if the current tip where flaps and not that awful button, the feedback might be a little bit different. Thumbs up

for the flappy paddles, the buttons sucks

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Apr 27, 2008 5:20:53 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: reginos

Re: PDK.....

Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
PDK gear level is almost the same as the on TIP. Just a small difference. No TIP gate but leather surroundings...

PDK Paddle buttons is another solution that will create a lot of discussions here on rennteam... My question is why P?

Correct me if I am wrong but with paddles one hand is + and the other is -. If this is so, I wouldn't like this system.
With buttons you can + or - with either hand. I find this system more efficient and practical in real driving.
Also, in all forms of motorsport the gear selectors are wheel mounted. Certain manufacturers have then on the steering collumn which again IMO has ergonomic drawbacks.
Just because some do it in a certain way it doesn't mean it is the only way or the right way.

In motorsport cars like F1 the paddles are wheel mounted because the turning the wheel from stop to stop is much shorter than in a roadcar. You don't have to take your hands off the wheel, so you won't get confused which paddel you have to take.
Having driven both versions, column mounted and wheel mounted paddles as well as button solutions like tiptronic or automatic at Alpina quite a few times, I for myself have to say that column mounted paddles are by far the best place to have puddles, err paddles in roadcars.

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Apr 27, 2008 5:21:12 PM

Mikla: Veteran; Loc: Spain , Spain; Posts: 1009, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2004; Reply to: Italo

New 3.6 Carrera

I believe the base Carrera with PDK and sport exhaust will be the best value 911... except a low mileage 997 Carrera S Mk1, of course!

Even so, do you believe the PDK will be enough to go for the Mk2?

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Apr 27, 2008 5:26:37 PM

Italo: Veteran; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 1055, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2007; Reply to: Mikla

Re: New 3.6 Carrera

Quote:
Mikla said:
I believe the base Carrera with PDK and sport exhaust will be the best value 911... except a low mileage 997 Carrera S Mk1, of course!

Even so, do you believe the PDK will be enough to go for the Mk2?

I could assure you that the PDK will be superfast, faster than F-cars F1. Porsche will not hold back this long and then release a coffee machine

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Apr 27, 2008 5:38:41 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: 997.2 Brochure

Here's a pic of old vs. new PCM comp (not great but better than nothing).

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Apr 27, 2008 5:43:07 PM

mex99: Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 335, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 28, 2008; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997.2 Brochure

As I said, I have a deposit down on a facelift C2S - question I have is why would I not want all the technology; PDK with sports chrono plus, (launch control, track gearing etc) and PASM sports suspension with -20mm and LSD.

Surely if this is the best that Porsche can make, I'd be a fool not to have it all? Wouldn't I?

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Apr 27, 2008 5:47:18 PM

Italo: Veteran; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 1055, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2007; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997.2 Brochure

Quote:
MMD said:
Here's a pic of old vs. new PCM comp (not great but better than nothing).

As they say change is good. New PCM for me

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Apr 27, 2008 6:59:57 PM

Turbo4ever: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 723, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 13, 2007; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997.2 Brochure

Quote:
MMD said:
Here's a pic of old vs. new PCM comp (not great but better than nothing).

New black one look a lot better, the old one look cheap.

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Apr 27, 2008 8:26:56 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Turbo4ever

Re: 997.2 Brochure

Quote:
Turbo4ever said:
Quote:
MMD said:
Here's a pic of old vs. new PCM comp (not great but better than nothing).

New black one look a lot better, the old one look cheap.

Agreed!

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Apr 27, 2008 11:33:35 PM

fredar: Newbie; Loc: Europe; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 8, 2007; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997.2 Brochure

Quote:
MMD said:
Here's a pic of old vs. new PCM comp (not great but better than nothing).

I am skeptical about removing the dialing buttons. Anyone who has used a touch-screen keypad knows that errors are sooo easy to make - especially on a bumpy road. Feeling the individual buttons with the finger is a different thing. Touch-screens are great for some things, but they do effectively remove all precision from using the best instruments we have. Our fingertips.

I.e. touck-screens are not the final solution unless they provide feedback to the fingertips.

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Apr 28, 2008 2:30:10 AM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: PDK.....

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
We can agree that we disagree here big time.

Paddles are on follwing cars and sportscars:

Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Audi(R8, TTS)
BMW M models(SMGIII and M-DCT)
Ferrari(all models)
Lamborghini(all models)
Nissan GT-R

as well as on Jaguar XKR and some others.

Solution that you like(paddle buttons with +/- for both left and rigth hand) is only on Porsche TIP cars and BMW Automatic cars...

Please enlight us all here with what fingers would you change a gears with puddle buttons?
Thumb?
Nissan GT-R

Column mounted paddles is the only correct way to do it, like all these cars mentioned above. When the wheel is turned 180deg, no way you will find the buttons on the wheel in a sporty drive. If Porsche does it this way, it is just plain stupid, they will force people to use the center console gear selector, thus forcing people to take one hand of the steering wheel. Bad.

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Apr 28, 2008 8:08:48 AM

kashmir: Senior; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 596, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 18, 2004; Reply to: fredar

Re: 997.2 Brochure

Quote:
fredar said:
Quote:
MMD said:
Here's a pic of old vs. new PCM comp (not great but better than nothing).

I am skeptical about removing the dialing buttons. Anyone who has used a touch-screen keypad knows that errors are sooo easy to make - especially on a bumpy road. Feeling the individual buttons with the finger is a different thing. Touch-screens are great for some things, but they do effectively remove all precision from using the best instruments we have. Our fingertips.

I.e. touck-screens are not the final solution unless they provide feedback to the fingertips.

Fully agreed...I am not happy with touchscreen either.

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Apr 28, 2008 8:21:23 AM

honi: Newbie; Loc: Bayern; Posts: 35, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 6, 2007; Reply to: kashmir

Re: 997.2 Brochure

This touchscrenn Navi (same in VW) won the test in auto-motor-sport.de last week.

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Apr 28, 2008 11:34:25 AM

Seraphim: Junior; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 68, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2008; Reply to: Italo

Re: PDK.....

+1......I much prefer column mounted paddles. Buttons are much less tactile...less interesting.

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Apr 28, 2008 11:53:23 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Seraphim

Re: PDK.....

Quote:
Seraphim said:
+1......I much prefer column mounted paddles. Buttons are much less tactile...less interesting.

I expect Tuning companies to start offering paddle conversions soon after introduction, to cater for you all paddlefetishists.

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Apr 28, 2008 2:57:50 PM

Nico997: Pilot; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 392, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2004; Reply to: fredar

Re: 997.2 Brochure

Quote:
fredar said:
I am skeptical about removing the dialing buttons. Anyone who has used a touch-screen keypad knows that errors are sooo easy to make - especially on a bumpy road.

You are normally not supposed to drive and dial...

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Apr 28, 2008 3:08:01 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14174, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: Nico997

Re: 997.2 Brochure

Are those the buttons to change gear in the Ferrari F 1 ?

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Apr 28, 2008 4:00:34 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Gnil

Re: 997.2 Brochure

Quote:
Gnil said:
Are those the buttons to change gear in the Ferrari F 1 ?

Don't think so, they should look similar to this one...

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Apr 28, 2008 4:05:11 PM

Italo: Veteran; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 1055, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2007; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997.2 Brochure

Quote:
Rossi said:
Quote:
Gnil said:
Are those the buttons to change gear in the Ferrari F 1 ?

Don't think so, they should look similar to this one...

thanks a lot Rossi

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Apr 28, 2008 4:41:28 PM

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Norway; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2003; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997.2 Brochure

Quote:
Rossi said:
Quote:
Gnil said:
Are those the buttons to change gear in the Ferrari F 1 ?

Don't think so, they should look similar to this one...

That is correct, the two top paddles on this wheel are for changing gears (left down, right up) and the two bottom paddles are the clutch, so you can engange the clutch with either hand in a F1 car.

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Apr 28, 2008 11:43:48 PM

fredar: Newbie; Loc: Europe; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 8, 2007; Reply to: Nico997

Re: 997.2 Brochure

Quote:
Nico997 said:
You are normally not supposed to drive and dial...

Some countries have law against that, not all.

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Apr 28, 2008 11:46:18 PM

fredar: Newbie; Loc: Europe; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 8, 2007; Reply to: Gnil

Re: 997.2 Brochure

Quote:
Gnil said:
Are those the buttons to change gear in the Ferrari F 1 ?

Whatever. There is no touch screen.

OT: Can't resist this must-see dogfight.
Bringing it on. Letting paddles work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX-psv4OaSI

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May 1, 2008 10:36:23 AM

kowalski: Newbie; Loc: italy - vicenza; Posts: 14, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 25, 2008; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: PDK.....

Quote:
SciFrog said:
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
We can agree that we disagree here big time.

Paddles are on follwing cars and sportscars:

Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Audi(R8, TTS)
BMW M models(SMGIII and M-DCT)
Ferrari(all models)
Lamborghini(all models)
Nissan GT-R

as well as on Jaguar XKR and some others.

Solution that you like(paddle buttons with +/- for both left and rigth hand) is only on Porsche TIP cars and BMW Automatic cars...

Please enlight us all here with what fingers would you change a gears with puddle buttons?
Thumb?
Nissan GT-R

Column mounted paddles is the only correct way to do it, like all these cars mentioned above. When the wheel is turned 180deg, no way you will find the buttons on the wheel in a sporty drive. If Porsche does it this way, it is just plain stupid, they will force people to use the center console gear selector, thus forcing people to take one hand of the steering wheel. Bad.

I just put a deposit for a C2S Cabriolet MY 09...
I asked more info about the 7-speed PDK....
The seller told me that it will probably be with something like button and not with paddle (!!!)
I currently use a SMG in my BMW....I think it's a good gear ...
I hope the Seller was wrong

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May 1, 2008 2:43:15 PM

mex99: Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 335, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 28, 2008; Reply to: kowalski

Re: PDK.....

I heard today buttons at launch...paddles after a year.

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