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STRADALE said:
Eugene,
I just got a quote from Mike at AWE. Your messages are really making me want this kit. I'm seriously considering it. It's the warranty thing though that's making it hard. There's a battle going on between my heart & my head. I should just give in after-all I know my heart ALWAYS wins anyway. But I guess if I am going to toss my warranty may as well GO BIG instead of throwing out the warranty for a measly 60hp, right? I'm going to put on a few k more miles, making sure that I at least give a little time for warranty stuff to show-up before making the leap but after that maybe I'll have one of the fastest convertibles on the planet.
ps: 712HP for this kit right? What is the ft/lbs?
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TB993tt said:
Since there has been quite a lot of talk on here about people gaining "education" about various tuning kits and being pushed in certain directions by reading of other Rennteamers experiences, I feel a little obliged to point out that whatever chassis dyno numbers AWE may obtain for their "700" kit, the performance indicates that the kit has the performance of a Ruf/RS 580hp/800NM offering.
I know a lot of guys like the big numbers and good for you, it is fun but for clarity one must compare like for like.
The AWE kit does seem to offer great value for the performance which Eclou has gracefully logged and shared for all to see
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eclou said:
Checking some more data I found that the RT12 has done 0-300 in 24.8 s per AutoBild Sportscars in Europe, but Road & Track did a best 0-300 of 27.5 s in a test in the US, with a 1 mile speed of 187mph. That is another example of significant discrepancy in the same model car between tests.
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TB993tt said:
Cargraphic /RST 598hp kit has been tested on a full weight 997tt at 0-300kph in 26s and the 645hp version did it in 23s
This would be "my" benchmark for Porsche engine dyno hp. The 544 kit's 0-300 time will be revealed in Sport Auto next week I believe.
I have no real answer to the RT12s lack of performance other than it should be quite a lot faster than the Ruf 590 - as you say head to head is really the only way but the RT12 has been tested accurately by SA (two people, two way run average run) at 24.8s so maybe there was a problem with the Texas car or maybe the conditions really were that harsh and the AWE package does have nearer 650hp ?
I have requested some more numbers from Eclou - data from a blast 60-160 (in more stable, friendly conditions) would probably reveal a lot more - but for obvious reasons it may take him some time to find a suitable "venue"
One can't argue with the value for performance of this kit for the raw performance numbers - and in your shoes I would probably pull the trigger....
There is another aspect which people rarely quanitify since it is very difficult to measure and is so subjective. I am talking about the throttle response.
Throttle response seems to be a huge part of what makes RS engines the best and seems to be achieved through the mapping done on their engine dyno, it brings all the other matched components together in a way which really enhances the driving experience.
I was discussing with the owner or a 6XXhp chassis dyno tuned 997tt whose car was fast (0-300 ~26s) and he mentioned how the tuner may be able to improve on his throttle response/laggyness - this really got me thinking about it because, driving RS engines for many years I sort of got used to this aspect but my hunch is that the majority of other tuners cannot fine tune so accurately as to really make 100% best in this area and I was thinking just what sort of results can GIAC achieve using the "limited" tools at their disposal....
We had a discussion on Rennlist a while back and I ended up datalogging a run which was a rolling start 5mph zero throttle then nailing the throttle - it was quite surprising that the results were quite a lot better than others, I have posted the graph below.
Now in my 993tt's case it is also to do with higher C:R and 3.8l but this "feature" is what RS always work towards, I guess it is borne from racing where getting the torque back online ASAP after a corner wins races.
This is one aspect of the Carrera GT which makes it so much faster in real use than say the 997GT2, punch the throttle of the CGT and GT2 together and the CGT will leap out a 4 car lead which is very hard to recover.
Checkout the short vid below, this was CGT vs RT12 - the RT12 surges past at the end at 208mph but check out the CGT leaping ahead:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2PAOMBSZ8
It would be great to devise some test we could do which could show the throttle response so we could gauge it with some objectivity. I'm going to give this one some thought...
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eclou said:
Inspired by Toby, I bring you some costly data from this morning. Conditions were 58F, no wind, concrete road (not a prepared track), very slight uphill. Ran a 60-130mph of 6.97s and 7.00 before getting nailed X2 (screw caused flat rear passenger tire, and got caught by trooper observing from the freeway). This data comes at great expense...
Apr 6, 2008 5:47:46 PM
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TB993tt said:
The 550hp RS/Ruf cars seem to do the 100-200kph in ~7.1s (CG)
I have just picked up a copy of French magazine Flat Six and they timed a new 997 GT2 100-200 - 8.08s (it also did a genuine 214mph ) so it shows just how fast 6s is
Apr 6, 2008 6:36:59 PM
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imcarnuts said:
Gene - Sorry about your misfortune. Your post are intoxicating and are seriously making me consider this package. I was near AWE last week and was going to stop but their car was apart.
Gregg - I feel the same way. I want to get a few miles on the car to see if there are any gremlins lurking. Maybe in a month or two we can meet at AWE, take Mike out for dinner and work on him for a better price if we both buy (or at least get a free shirt, which is more likely.
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mawyatt said:
I know this has been asked before but I couldn't find the price, even on AWE web site. Est of hours to get installation? Awesome performance!!
Thanks,
Mike
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STRADALE said:Quote:
imcarnuts said:
Gene - Sorry about your misfortune. Your post are intoxicating and are seriously making me consider this package. I was near AWE last week and was going to stop but their car was apart.
Gregg - I feel the same way. I want to get a few miles on the car to see if there are any gremlins lurking. Maybe in a month or two we can meet at AWE, take Mike out for dinner and work on him for a better price if we both buy (or at least get a free shirt, which is more likely.
Duffy, Absolutely. Would love to take a drive out there in a month or so when the weather could be perfect. We're thinking the same regarding miles. How many do you have now?/Would you like before trashing the warranty? I have 1500miles but would like to have at least 5000-10k. I should have the 2000mile break-in done by this weekend. If the weather wasnt so foul, it's been raining here almost everyday I would have had the break-in done much sooner. Let me know what works for you & we'll contact Mike to see what works for him. They have a Turbo w/ the 700 kit right? Is that the car that was apart?
Gene - That sucks. Sorry that happened.
Feel like telling us what happened? What did he nail you w/ in terms of speed, etc.?
6.0! - Man! That kit is a Monster.
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TB993tt said:
.....
This is one aspect of the Carrera GT which makes it so much faster in real use than say the 997GT2, punch the throttle of the CGT and GT2 together and the CGT will leap out a 4 car lead which is very hard to recover.
Checkout the short vid below, this was CGT vs RT12 - the RT12 surges past at the end at 208mph but check out the CGT leaping ahead:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2PAOMBSZ8
It would be great to devise some test we could do which could show the throttle response so we could gauge it with some objectivity. I'm going to give this one some thought...
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cannga said:
Very interesting post. Of all of Alex's comments about his RSC, I was most intrigued by his statement that Turbo lag is much minimized.
Obviously you've more experience and have thought about this issue a "little" more than I have, but I think measurement of throttle response would be reflected in the time it takes, after fully opening the throttle from a steady state cruise, for engine RPM or car speed to go up a small amount. So, how about measuring the time it takes for engine RPM to go from 3000 to 3500, once throttle is fully opened? For example I believe my NA 997 engine RPM goes up quite a bit faster than my Turbo, therefore/because it has better throttle response.
It's probably would be different at different RPM. But I think it would reflect how Alex's car has less Turbo lag than mine.