Crown

Board: Ferrari Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    ...the Ferrari Racing Days on the Nuerburgring/Germany on September 4th and 5th 2004. The F430 will be on display there!

    Another goodie for F430 fans: Michael Schumacher will drive the F430 on the Nuerburgring on Sunday the 5th.

    And now don't ask from where I have this info or if it is true, just enjoy the Ferrari Racing Days in September.


    BTW: if you don't have time to be there, no problem.
    One of our Editors will be there. And hopefully he has a digital camera with him this time.

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Like I said a few weeks ago. Every two year Ferrari introduces a new Ferrari at the Racing Days.

    It was 550, 360 challenge, Enzo and now F430. When I got the news officially I prob go over there to see it.

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Thanks RC .

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    RC,

    It's not 4 and 5 august but 3 - 5 September !!!!!!!

    See You

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    geertf60 said:
    RC,

    It's not 4 and 5 august but 3 - 5 September !!!!!!!

    See You



    I know but apparently somebody edited again my post, the second time now.

    Would the person (moderator or editor) please leave my post alone, thank you.

    Thanks Gert!

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    In Antwort auf:
    RC said:
    ...the Ferrari Racing Days on the Nuerburgring/Germany on September 4th and 5th 2004. The F430 will be on display there!
    And now don't ask from where I have this info or if it is true, just enjoy the Ferrari Racing Days in September.




    Well, I already posted that a couple of weeks ago...

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    rossi said:

    Well, I already posted that a couple of weeks ago...



    But this is 100% info, not just a rumor.

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    geertf60 said:
    Like I said a few weeks ago. Every two year Ferrari introduces a new Ferrari at the Racing Days.

    It was 550, 360 challenge, Enzo and now F430. When I got the news officially I prob go over there to see it.



    Nice, can't wait to see more shots of this baby.

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    In Antwort auf:
    RC said:
    In Antwort auf:
    rossi said:

    Well, I already posted that a couple of weeks ago...



    But this is 100% info, not just a rumor.



    How can you say, I was telling only a rumour?

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    rossi said:

    How can you say, I was telling only a rumour?




    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Please try to get the lap time at Nring, interesting to compare to RS.GT2/3..

    anyone have a CS lap time for the ring??? thanks

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    watt said:
    Please try to get the lap time at Nring, interesting to compare to RS.GT2/3..

    anyone have a CS lap time for the ring??? thanks



    7:56 min... check out www.track-challenge.com

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    They don't use the "ring" for the Ferrari Racing days but only the F1 circuit or the short-cut version.

    So I think we have to wait for the Ring time

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    watt said:
    Please try to get the lap time at Nring, interesting to compare to RS.GT2/3..

    anyone have a CS lap time for the ring??? thanks



    Hi watt,

    Horst von Saurma, editor and chief tester of German magazine "sport auto" lapped the Nürburgring in the Ferraris CS in 7'56". As a matter of interest, he did it in one of your previous cars, the Porsche 911 GT2, in 7'46".

    Unfortunately, that was the MY 2001 911 GT2. He has not yet published a time for the 2004 version, which has a power output about 20 HP higher, and a revised suspension setup.

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Should prob compare track times for a car for both great driver and those for a more mediocre (?90-95%ile driver).....as I suspect some of these cars (GT2 for ex) may have track capabilities only fully unleashed by a 99th %ile driver, whereas other cars may be more approachable (and less likely to kill/maim) to more mortal drivers....and are ultimately faster cars for most drivers in the twisties.

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Should prob compare track times for a car for both great driver and those for a more mediocre (?90-95%ile driver).....as I suspect some of these cars (GT2 for ex) may have track capabilities only fully unleashed by a 99th %ile driver, whereas other cars may be more approachable (and less likely to kill/maim) to more mortal drivers....and are ultimately faster cars for most drivers in the twisties.



    Yeh, we could also send total beginners out onto the Ring in both of these cars, to make sure the playing field is really level!

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Well, definately both the CS as much as GT2 and 3 are suitable for experts only - I wouldn't say that I'd be able to unleash their potential to 100% yet and I won't be the only one out there!

    Just as a sidenote: Horst v. Saurma-Jeltsch is chief editor of "SportAuto" and also takes part in several driver trainings (e.g. on the Nordschleife) as an instructor - still he lapped the Ring in the GT3 Mk.1 in 8.03 min., whereas Walter Röhrl lapped it at 7.56 min - 7 sec. difference.

    VKSF, I get your idea but how much percent is Walter Röhrl? Being one of the greatest drivers, it would be tough to give it a definite percentage. Still we are all humans!

    Von Saurma testdrove the Bentley EXP8 and his driving report was more about the handling and technical features (aerodynamic downforce, carbon brakes) than about really understanding the car - I am pretty sure that even he has his limits...

    By the way, did you guys hear that M. Schumacher plans to join the "Race of the Champions" in December? Sadly they moved to Paris for this year's event, Teneriffe would've been better. I am actually considering going there - anybody joining?

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Should prob compare track times for a car for both great driver and those for a more mediocre (?90-95%ile driver).....as I suspect some of these cars (GT2 for ex) may have track capabilities only fully unleashed by a 99th %ile driver, whereas other cars may be more approachable (and less likely to kill/maim) to more mortal drivers....and are ultimately faster cars for most drivers in the twisties.



    Yeh, we could also send total beginners out onto the Ring in both of these cars, to make sure the playing field is really level!



    Fritz are you missing his point? If a car is built which only a very few driver can optimize what is the point? The mark of a good car is it allows the average/above average driver to derive maximium enjoyment allowable by the car.

    The TT is such a car. The CGT, GT2 and GT3 are not. It would be like Sony producing a DVD system which would require an IQ of 150 or more to operate. Why bother?

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Fritz are you missing his point? If a car is built which only a very few driver can optimize what is the point? The mark of a good car is it allows the average/above average driver to derive maximium enjoyment allowable by the car.

    The TT is such a car. The CGT, GT2 and GT3 are not. It would be like Sony producing a DVD system which would require an IQ of 150 or more to operate. Why bother?



    I don't think I'm missing the point, Nick, but maybe you are.

    Sony makes DVD's for the mass market, so they have a vital interest in making them easy to use and foolproof.

    Manufacturers of performance cars do not generally go for a mass market. They aim them at people who realise that to use the product to the full, they need to invest something into honing their own skills as well. The higher the level of performance, the greater the degree of skill required.

    The higher the degree of skill needed to fully benefit from the product will contribute towards Porsche never selling as many GT model cars as Sony does DVD systems.

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    As a function of lap times Nick, I would agree with you. However, even if a driver is slower in the TT than in the GT3, he/she may still prefer the latter due to road feel, lower weight, sound, purity, and other objective requirements. But as you know, outright speed is not the main criterion for sports car purchases.

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Fritz are you missing his point? If a car is built which only a very few driver can optimize what is the point? The mark of a good car is it allows the average/above average driver to derive maximium enjoyment allowable by the car.

    The TT is such a car. The CGT, GT2 and GT3 are not. It would be like Sony producing a DVD system which would require an IQ of 150 or more to operate. Why bother?






    Manufacturers of performance cars do not generally go for a mass market. They aim them at people who realise that to use the product to the full, they need to invest something into honing their own skills as well. The higher the level of performance, the greater the degree of skill required.



    Walter Roehl is on record stating that 99% of the owners of the CGT will not be able to use the car to its near/maximum potential. I am sure the same can be said about the GT2 and possibly the GT3. Again I ask the question.. why spend the money and what is the point?

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Walter Roehl is on record stating that 99% of the owners of the CGT will not be able to use the car to its near/maximum potential. I am sure the same can be said about the GT2 and possibly the GT3. Again I ask the question.. why spend the money and what is the point?


    Why did you get a 360? Are you able to extract maximum potential from it?
    It's the same with GT3/GT2/CGT, one might not be able to extract all its potential, but even much less than maximum is already a thrilling experience

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    And 99% of Ferrari owners can get the most out of a 360CS or Enzo? I rememeber when Enzo would talk trash about other marks who used electronics on their cars to aid in driving! Now look at Ferrari, my how times have changed. What is the point of making the 360 or Enzo if every meatball can drive it at the limit easily? What would Enzo himself say to that? He would tell Nick to buy a Benz.

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Walter Roehl is on record stating that 99% of the owners of the CGT will not be able to use the car to its near/maximum potential. I am sure the same can be said about the GT2 and possibly the GT3. Again I ask the question.. why spend the money and what is the point?



    So Nick, based on that logic, I assume that you are now in the process of trading in your 360 Spider on a John Deere garden tractor, right?

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    So Nick, based on that logic, I assume that you are now in the process of trading in your 360 Spider on a John Deere garden tractor, right?


    No, fritz, a Porsche tractor, it's more exclusive

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    So Nick, based on that logic, I assume that you are now in the process of trading in your 360 Spider on a John Deere garden tractor, right?


    No, fritz, a Porsche tractor, it's more exclusive



    Brunner, the fact that it is really exclusive was the very reason why I ruled it out for Nick!

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Walter Roehl is on record stating that 99% of the owners of the CGT will not be able to use the car to its near/maximum potential. I am sure the same can be said about the GT2 and possibly the GT3. Again I ask the question.. why spend the money and what is the point?


    Why did you get a 360? Are you able to extract maximum potential from it?
    It's the same with GT3/GT2/CGT, one might not be able to extract all its potential, but even much less than maximum is already a thrilling experience



    I anticipated all the following responses. The 360 is an easier car to extract its full potential. Mid engine, some stability aid, sharp responsive steering, and road feel which I do not believe you would get from a car with the engine hanging behind the rear axle.

    I believe the TT provides a driver with the necessary technical features to maximize the use of the car. PSM and AWD. The CGT though midengine is two powerful and whatever balance advantages it has are compromised because of the power which only a handful of drivers can manage.

    I will be getting the 430 coupe then the Spider. The 490hp will be my limit with these cars. My driving skills are better than most drivers but when these cars reach some of the power levels being offered I must recognize my limitations and look for something else.

    Certainly a car the the Elise would be a serious contender. Put it on a track have a ball.

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I anticipated all the following responses. The 360 is an easier car to extract its full potential.



    hmmm... so 400HP & mid-engined Ferrari's are known for being easy to drive, and that you extract its full potential on the public roads of San Diego? who are you trying to kid Nick

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Fritz are you missing his point? If a car is built which only a very few driver can optimize what is the point? The mark of a good car is it allows the average/above average driver to derive maximium enjoyment allowable by the car.

    The TT is such a car. The CGT, GT2 and GT3 are not. It would be like Sony producing a DVD system which would require an IQ of 150 or more to operate. Why bother?



    I don't think I'm missing the point, Nick, but maybe you are.

    Sony makes DVD's for the mass market, so they have a vital interest in making them easy to use and foolproof.

    Manufacturers of performance cars do not generally go for a mass market. They aim them at people who realise that to use the product to the full, they need to invest something into honing their own skills as well. The higher the level of performance, the greater the degree of skill required.

    The higher the degree of skill needed to fully benefit from the product will contribute towards Porsche never selling as many GT model cars as Sony does DVD systems.



    See your point, Fritz, but unfortunately car cos. need to continually increase annual profits to justify stock price appreciation and their survival. P has to sell a lot of Boxsters/911s to equal profits on 1 CGT; unfortunately, I suspect there aren't enough highly skilled drivers w/money to buy enough $150K+ sportscars to support the sales volumes that F/P/Lambo, etc need to stay alive....thus, in a competitive, capitalist world the car cos. that want to survive/prosper need to create increasingly approachable supercars.....ultimately, the wealthy poseur/nonpurist buyer base helps to subsidize the R&D costs of developing the supercars and reduce the depreciation costs for the purists w/99th %ile driving skills.

    Re: You want to see the F430? Live? Close-up view? Go to...

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I anticipated all the following responses. The 360 is an easier car to extract its full potential.



    hmmm... so 400HP & mid-engined Ferrari's are known for being easy to drive, and that you extract its full potential on the public roads of San Diego? who are you trying to kid Nick



    Carlos, though there are occasions and moments driving in San Diego to realize its full potential, they are few and far between. Your probably right; maybe we all are kidding ourselves.

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 3/28/24 3:21 AM
    watt
    689325 1780
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 2/19/24 11:51 PM
    Wonderbar
    409088 564
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM
    255697 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48
    234946 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA
    65500 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut
    4644 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    857898 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant
    773904 3868
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/6/23 7:43 AM
    crayphile
    447864 1276
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry
    378856 1526
    Porsche GT4RS 2/22/24 5:16 AM
    tso
    365598 1424
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker
    360777 797
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    354709 2401
    Lambo Aventador and SV 3/30/23 1:59 PM
    CGX car nut
    279145 724
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/21/23 8:09 AM
    the-missile
    275519 550
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 3/14/24 8:55 PM
    blueflame
    272523 658
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    248215 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug
    225063 346
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel
    217918 488
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel
    196717 101
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug
    155309 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut
    126885 144
    Ferrari [2022] Ferrari Purosangue (SUV) 4/15/23 5:20 AM
    watt
    120468 141
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA
    105964 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM
    102503 685
    Others Valkyrie final design? 4/28/23 2:45 AM
    Rossi
    97645 219
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    81039 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame
    74333 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    52115 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 3/16/24 9:27 PM
    WhoopsyM
    23091 237
    133 items found, displaying 1 to 30.