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Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
I'd like to hear more about the cars tires. They made a statement that the GT-R's tires.
"Credit for this superlative effort goes to the GT-R's sticky tires and advanced ATTESA awd system"
I'd be interested to see if the tires are R compound like (like GT3RS) often that makes the most significant change in performance and can bring even the heaviest cars alive. For example, if I compare a set of Pilot Sports to the Goodyear F1's, it's dramatic, if I slap on some cup tires, even MORE dramatic...set of Hoosier's and it will pin you in the seat.
As a Z06 owner, I totally agree with the Z06 having too much body roll and having problem during quick transitions. The leaf suspension works very well, but you have to "set" the suspension before each corner, which is not a problem unless you have a super quick left right transtition. I was amazed at how spot on his assesment was...the throttle application is VERY sensitive.
After a year of track days, I have come to the assesment that the front spring rate is too soft for serious lap times and was more or less designed for more street duty. This makes the car such a great daily driver, but just makes it a little sloppy in hard conditions. But what you do to get faster lap times at the track, you give up comfort on the street.
Over the winter, to resolve this issue, I have undergone a major upgrade of the suspension...more to come with pics
"Credit for this superlative effort goes to the GT-R's sticky tires and advanced ATTESA awd system"
I'd be interested to see if the tires are R compound like (like GT3RS) often that makes the most significant change in performance and can bring even the heaviest cars alive. For example, if I compare a set of Pilot Sports to the Goodyear F1's, it's dramatic, if I slap on some cup tires, even MORE dramatic...set of Hoosier's and it will pin you in the seat.
As a Z06 owner, I totally agree with the Z06 having too much body roll and having problem during quick transitions. The leaf suspension works very well, but you have to "set" the suspension before each corner, which is not a problem unless you have a super quick left right transtition. I was amazed at how spot on his assesment was...the throttle application is VERY sensitive.
After a year of track days, I have come to the assesment that the front spring rate is too soft for serious lap times and was more or less designed for more street duty. This makes the car such a great daily driver, but just makes it a little sloppy in hard conditions. But what you do to get faster lap times at the track, you give up comfort on the street.
Over the winter, to resolve this issue, I have undergone a major upgrade of the suspension...more to come with pics
Perhaps then 997TT die hard fans can be left alone and enjoy their cars 
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
95jersey said:
I'd like to hear more about the cars tires. They made a statement that the GT-R's tires.
"Credit for this superlative effort goes to the GT-R's sticky tires and advanced ATTESA awd system"
The GT-R's tires are Bridgestone Run-Flats (definitely not R comp)
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
WAY said:
So how is it that BMW's runflats (Bridgestone as well) are so crap while Nissan's runflats are so good? Or is in fact that the GTR is penalised by have these runflats?
WAY, something just isn't right. Over 5 seconds on a 2-minute course against two cars which are lighter, faster in the straight line and have better tyres. I find it very hard to believe.
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
I have to agree with you. I am a fan of the GTR performance, but even I find this a bit hard to believe. I know the GTR is quick, probably in the same league as a 997 GT3 and turbo, but this is too big a gap. Maybe this Nissan is running R-compound and not it's factory tyre.
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
WAY said:
So how is it that BMW's runflats (Bridgestone as well) are so crap while Nissan's runflats are so good? Or is in fact that the GTR is penalised by have these runflats?
WAY, something just isn't right. Over 5 seconds on a 2-minute course against two cars which are lighter, faster in the straight line and have better tyres. I find it very hard to believe.
The Bridgestones on the GTR are excellent and far far better than those on the BMW's. They spent a ton of time on the track developing the tires on the GTR.
Also, the 997TT is not the faster car in a straight line (at least below 150mph or so).
Here's another article where the GTR beats a GT3 on the track (GT3 has R tires), kills the Audi R8 on the road, and barely beats the Z06 on the dragstrip:
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22031
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
95jersey said:
Also, look at the driver. It's Steve Millen...(Mr. Nissan himself). That is like giving Ron Fellows 3 cars to test including a Z06...what do you think would happen.
Read the EVO article I just posted - seems pretty fairly judged...
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
Grant said:
Here's another article where the GTR beats a GT3 on the track (GT3 has R tires), kills the Audi R8 on the road, and barely beats the Z06 on the dragstrip:
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22031
Hmm... Kills R8 on the road... Did we read the same EVO article? In sheer speed yes. BUT, in drive feel and subjective dynamics? I do not think so...
BTW, few quotes from EVO article are essential IMHO to understand Nissan GT-R:
"...Nissan is so strong that it feels more like 550hp"
"...Audi feels soft in its default damper setting."
"...R8's open-gate manual shift suddenly feels clumsy and slow."
"The DCT gearbox is key part of the experience."
Also both guys claim that R8 gives you more feedback and organic feel.
BIG fact is the GT-R suspension is very stiff in its initial setting(and becomes only stiffer). Car is apparently tuned for track as well for demanding roads. Just-those who drove it in Europe(like Horst von Saurma or R.Meaden) also claim that GT-R is way too stiff for normal road driving. In fact according to reliable source GT-R is stiffer then 997 GT2!
Straight line speed is despite all facts not so impressive. On the autbahn GT-R do not have any chance what-so-ever aginst stock 997 Turbo(manual or TIP). BTW, short story from Germany last summer... GT-R was killed by 4years old SL65 with 70000km's on clock without any problems. Above 240km/h GT-R did not have any chance against old slush box king SL65...
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
WAY said:
So how is it that BMW's runflats (Bridgestone as well) are so crap while Nissan's runflats are so good? Or is in fact that the GTR is penalised by have these runflats?
WAY, something just isn't right. Over 5 seconds on a 2-minute course against two cars which are lighter, faster in the straight line and have better tyres. I find it very hard to believe.
The Bridgestones on the GTR are excellent and far far better than those on the BMW's. They spent a ton of time on the track developing the tires on the GTR.
Also, the 997TT is not the faster car in a straight line (at least below 150mph or so).
Here's another article where the GTR beats a GT3 on the track (GT3 has R tires), kills the Audi R8 on the road, and barely beats the Z06 on the dragstrip:
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22031
Grant, that test is BS. The GT-R has been proven to be slower than the TT in several tests. If Nissan supplied some mags with overpowered cars, fine, but that pig is nowhere near as fast as people claim.
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
There is another issue with the GT-R. If you buy one you have to you look at it.
Never before has a near supercar looked so____________.
Absolutely Cool. According to my young son (who normally goes gaga over Lambos).
I doubt I would be able to look a a GTR with great pleasure in my garage. But its track performance for such a heavy car is nothing short of astonishing. I believe it is called progress and we (the old guard) will eventually adjust to the new world order. Kids adapt faster.
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
BIG fact is the GT-R suspension is very stiff in its initial setting(and becomes only stiffer). Car is apparently tuned for track as well for demanding roads. Just-those who drove it in Europe(like Horst von Saurma or R.Meaden) also claim that GT-R is way too stiff for normal road driving. In fact according to reliable source GT-R is stiffer then 997 GT2!
Straight line speed is despite all facts not so impressive. On the autbahn GT-R do not have any chance what-so-ever aginst stock 997 Turbo(manual or TIP). BTW, short story from Germany last summer... GT-R was killed by 4years old SL65 with 70000km's on clock without any problems. Above 240km/h GT-R did not have any chance against old slush box king SL65...
If you post this on 1 of the forums where I post alot, I think you'll be slapping many people with all these infos
they're all happy about Road and Track's test and think it's the end of the world and can't wait for the V-Spec version to come out and take down the CGT 
I hope there would be some more tests in Europe to prove how slow this tissue box is.
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
Crash said:Grant, that test is BS. The GT-R has been proven to be slower than the TT in several tests. If Nissan supplied some mags with overpowered cars, fine, but that pig is nowhere near as fast as people claim.
I thought the article mentioned that they used customer cars, not press cars...
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
GT-R is not build to be a bahn stormer. Leave that for the euroes. But what GT-R is, is a very very fast b road car and one fast track car. Kreso and Crash, still don't know why you guys hate this car so much. It's a blardy quick car and it is cheap. That article from EVO proved it. EVO is not exactly an unreputable magazine!
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
BiTurbo said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
BIG fact is the GT-R suspension is very stiff in its initial setting(and becomes only stiffer). Car is apparently tuned for track as well for demanding roads. Just-those who drove it in Europe(like Horst von Saurma or R.Meaden) also claim that GT-R is way too stiff for normal road driving. In fact according to reliable source GT-R is stiffer then 997 GT2!
Straight line speed is despite all facts not so impressive. On the autbahn GT-R do not have any chance what-so-ever aginst stock 997 Turbo(manual or TIP). BTW, short story from Germany last summer... GT-R was killed by 4years old SL65 with 70000km's on clock without any problems. Above 240km/h GT-R did not have any chance against old slush box king SL65...
If you post this on 1 of the forums where I post alot, I think you'll be slapping many people with all these infos
I hope there would be some more tests in Europe to prove how slow this tissue box is.
Yes I would take Road and Track test with a grain of salt, but I have a lot of respect for EVO and I take what they say seriously...
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
WAY said:
GT-R is not build to be a bahn stormer. Leave that for the euroes. But what GT-R is, is a very very fast b road car and one fast track car. Kreso and Crash, still don't know why you guys hate this car so much. It's a blardy quick car and it is cheap. That article from EVO proved it. EVO is not exactly an unreputable magazine!
I do NOT hate GT-R. I just want to see Euro specs GT-R tested by one of the respected German magazines(either AMS or specially Sport Auto). EVO tested Japan grey imports GT-R so, let wait for Euro spec cars...
Just one problem-Euro sales will start in late March 2009...
So, if in March 2009 GT-R kills all competitors in Sport Auto comparison test(or Supertest) I will admit that it is the best sportscar currently on the market.
Till then...
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
Crash said:
Grant, that test is BS. The GT-R has been proven to be slower than the TT in several tests.
Really? By whom? Link please.
Quote:
Crash said:
If Nissan supplied some mags with overpowered cars, fine, but that pig is nowhere near as fast as people claim.
http://www.edmunds.com/carreviews.html# tested a customer's car with equally phenomenal results.
BTW, a 911tt with DSG will be just as heavy.
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
KresoF1 said:Quote:
WAY said:
GT-R is not build to be a bahn stormer. Leave that for the euroes. But what GT-R is, is a very very fast b road car and one fast track car. Kreso and Crash, still don't know why you guys hate this car so much. It's a blardy quick car and it is cheap. That article from EVO proved it. EVO is not exactly an unreputable magazine!
I do NOT hate GT-R. I just want to see Euro specs GT-R tested by one of the respected German magazines(either AMS or specially Sport Auto). EVO tested Japan grey imports GT-R so, let wait for Euro spec cars...
Just one problem-Euro sales will start in late March 2009...
So, if in March 2009 GT-R kills all competitors in Sport Auto comparison test(or Supertest) I will admit that it is the best sportscar currently on the market.
Till then...
KresoF1 you remind me of lawyers shopping around to find an expert who agrees with his theory of the case.
After being turned down by several, one finally agrees and HE is the true expert and has the best opinion. 
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Nick,
Huh...
Since I am a lawyer...
BTW, all this reviews are pretty useless IMHO. Why?
GT-R sales in Europe will start in late March 2009.
We still did not heard anything about Euro specs GT-R(appart from the fact that optional Navi will be available from Ocotber 2009!
).
Under ideal conditons we(I mean European costumers) are at least one year away from first REAL tests of Euro specs GT-R.
Now... Try to imagine yourself driving your daily road when kid in GT-R stop next to you on traffic light... He can admire your F430 and think:"...maybe I will have that money someday..."
>
Now imagine yourself in same new GT-R next to fellow lawyer in yellow F430... Possibly in your mind:"...
...!"
Huh...
Since I am a lawyer... BTW, all this reviews are pretty useless IMHO. Why?
GT-R sales in Europe will start in late March 2009.
We still did not heard anything about Euro specs GT-R(appart from the fact that optional Navi will be available from Ocotber 2009!
). Under ideal conditons we(I mean European costumers) are at least one year away from first REAL tests of Euro specs GT-R.
Now... Try to imagine yourself driving your daily road when kid in GT-R stop next to you on traffic light... He can admire your F430 and think:"...maybe I will have that money someday..."
>
Now imagine yourself in same new GT-R next to fellow lawyer in yellow F430... Possibly in your mind:"...
...!"
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
WAY said:
GT-R is not build to be a bahn stormer. Leave that for the euroes. But what GT-R is, is a very very fast b road car and one fast track car. Kreso and Crash, still don't know why you guys hate this car so much. It's a blardy quick car and it is cheap. That article from EVO proved it. EVO is not exactly an unreputable magazine!
I don't hate it. I like how it offers so much (DSG box, advanced AWD, 480 bhp) for so little money and I can even stomach the looks (it actually looks good in dark red) and I don't really have any reason to doubt its track performance. However, I do seriously doubt that it's THAT good, and I think there is simply too much hype. 5+ seconds on a 2-minute track against two of the class benchmarks is hype. I do believe it's capable enough to beat both, but not nearly by that much.
So, what I'm saying is: I quite like the car, I like how it sets the bar higher, but I just don't believe the hype. Remember when the Z06 came out, or even the Turbo. Both were claimed to be performance GODS almost, but we know how true that was.
Re: 997TT vs. GT-R vs. Z06 on road course laptimes
Quote:
svtrader1 said:Quote:
Crash said:
Grant, that test is BS. The GT-R has been proven to be slower than the TT in several tests.
Really? By whom? Link please.Quote:
Crash said:
If Nissan supplied some mags with overpowered cars, fine, but that pig is nowhere near as fast as people claim.
http://www.edmunds.com/carreviews.html# tested a customer's car with equally phenomenal results.
BTW, a 911tt with DSG will be just as heavy.
sv,
I can't give you the links right now, because I frankly don't remember precisely which mags, but several, while praising the GT-R's handling prowess, conceded that the Turbo was faster in the straight line. Note that nobody is disputing the GT-R's capability in handling corners.
However, one thing does puzzle me: how can a car with the same power, but 200 kg more weight, keep up with the Turbo up to almost 120 mph? I can't think of anything else but much more power than advertised.
Remember BMW and its x35d engines? They were all tuned to 300+ bhp from the factory to impress customers and reviewers and then detuned at the first service visit. I suspect Nissan is playing a similar game here. In any case, once the car has begun selling in Europe, we'll know. It will never pass through the TüV at such power levels.
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