Crown

There's a better chance BTC goes to $0 than $500K, but who knows, crazier things have happened hah

noone1:

There's a better chance BTC goes to $0 than $500K, but who knows, crazier things have happened hah

True... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

”Will soon enable Tesla owners to request service from their phone with a few taps. Tesla Ranger will come to you to take care of your car. No need to bring the car in yourself & zero paperwork.”

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998 ... 9356994560

"Tesla dual motor, all-wheel drive performance Model 3: 3.5 sec 0-60mph 155 mph Top Speed 310 mile Range"

"Cost of all options, wheels, paint, etc is included (apart from Autopilot). Cost is $78k. About same as BMW M3, but 15% quicker & with better handling. Will beat anything in its class on the track."

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998085655958769665

lukestern:

"Tesla dual motor, all-wheel drive performance Model 3: 3.5 sec 0-60mph 155 mph Top Speed 310 mile Range"

"Cost of all options, wheels, paint, etc is included (apart from Autopilot). Cost is $78k. About same as BMW M3, but 15% quicker & with better handling. Will beat anything in its class on the track."

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998085655958769665

He lost me when he overreached and said better handling than a M3   ... handling is not traction on wet or skipad numbers...don't think he knows what handling is...

Seriously, regardless of that desperate plug comparing a model3 to an M3, I think the dual motor AWD is a good move, cost little R&D investment to do it and yields another new Model3 that may appeal to more people, like those that want AWD for winter, etc.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

lukestern:

"Tesla dual motor, all-wheel drive performance Model 3: 3.5 sec 0-60mph 155 mph Top Speed 310 mile Range"

"Cost of all options, wheels, paint, etc is included (apart from Autopilot). Cost is $78k. About same as BMW M3, but 15% quicker & with better handling. Will beat anything in its class on the track."

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998085655958769665

He lost me when he overreached and said better handling than a M3   ... handling is not traction on wet or skipad numbers...don't think he knows what handling is...

Seriously, regardless of that desperate plug comparing a model3 to an M3, I think the dual motor AWD is a good move, cost little R&D investment to do it and yields another new Model3 that may appeal to more people, like those that want AWD for winter, etc.

He's a bit provocative with his statements as always, but that we know by now .  Let's wait and see how this turns out. It might actually be quite quick around the track. There are a lot of things that suggest that it will be capable of maintaining high power output for a long period of time due to different battery tech/cooling, silicon carbide in the inverters and other motors.

This is a really cool car and it will appeal to a lot of customers out there for sure. Price point is also really good. It comes in fully loaded at 78k (+5k for Autopilot for those who want that).

lukestern:

Carlos from Spain:

lukestern:

"Tesla dual motor, all-wheel drive performance Model 3: 3.5 sec 0-60mph 155 mph Top Speed 310 mile Range"

"Cost of all options, wheels, paint, etc is included (apart from Autopilot). Cost is $78k. About same as BMW M3, but 15% quicker & with better handling. Will beat anything in its class on the track."

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998085655958769665

He lost me when he overreached and said better handling than a M3   ... handling is not traction on wet or skipad numbers...don't think he knows what handling is...

Seriously, regardless of that desperate plug comparing a model3 to an M3, I think the dual motor AWD is a good move, cost little R&D investment to do it and yields another new Model3 that may appeal to more people, like those that want AWD for winter, etc.

He's a bit provocative with his statements as always, but that we know by now .  Let's wait and see how this turns out. It might actually be quite quick around the track. There are a lot of things that suggest that it will be capable of maintaining high power output for a long period of time due to different battery tech/cooling, silicon carbide in the inverters and other motors.

This is a really cool car and it will appeal to a lot of customers out there for sure. Price point is also really good. It comes in fully loaded at 78k (+5k for Autopilot for those who want that).

Thanks for the thoughtful posts. 

It will be interesting to see what portion of the order backlog is waiting for a $78k dual-motor Model 3 and what portion are holding out for the basic $35k offering.

At a $78k price point there is an overlap with the Model S existing used inventory available through Tesla...

Is this top of the range Model 3 now targeting a similar customer base to other existing Tesla models or is it looking to attract new customers that might also consider placing an order for the Porsche Mission E or Audi e-Tron? 

Used Inventory Link: https://www.tesla.com/inventory/used/ms?DRIVE=AWD&arrangeby=plh&zip=95113&range=0

With true torque vectoring, I would be surprised if it handles better. Super low center of gravity, tons of toque applied to independent wheels...

M3 is barely even a sports car anymore IMO though...

lukestern:

Carlos from Spain:

lukestern:

"Tesla dual motor, all-wheel drive performance Model 3: 3.5 sec 0-60mph 155 mph Top Speed 310 mile Range"

"Cost of all options, wheels, paint, etc is included (apart from Autopilot). Cost is $78k. About same as BMW M3, but 15% quicker & with better handling. Will beat anything in its class on the track."

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998085655958769665

He lost me when he overreached and said better handling than a M3   ... handling is not traction on wet or skipad numbers...don't think he knows what handling is...

Seriously, regardless of that desperate plug comparing a model3 to an M3, I think the dual motor AWD is a good move, cost little R&D investment to do it and yields another new Model3 that may appeal to more people, like those that want AWD for winter, etc.

He's a bit provocative with his statements as always, but that we know by now .  Let's wait and see how this turns out. It might actually be quite quick around the track. There are a lot of things that suggest that it will be capable of maintaining high power output for a long period of time due to different battery tech/cooling, silicon carbide in the inverters and other motors.

True, but even if it is fast around a track it doesn't mean it handles better when it does it in virtue of HP/torque, a Cayenne Turbo may be faster around a track than a Boxster but it doesn't handle better nor does it compare dynamically, this one is going to an even heavier car than the normal Model3 for example, the advantage is that its going have more power and its going to be better at laying that power on the ground. Its going to handle better than the regular Model3 but that is it, its still a Model3 by Tesla.

Like I said, its a good move but comparing handling to an M3 is kind of insulting the intelligence of anyone that has a minimum of knowledge about sportscars and handling... then again that is not his target audience either so I guess he can get away with such statements... kind of like what some politicians say to their voters... But there is no need to go there by Musk, handling better than an M3 is not the purpose of this car, it has other advatages over the regular Model3, he should focus on those without needing to resort to hyperbole and exaggerations, does more harm than good, makes him loose even more credibility.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

lukestern:

Carlos from Spain:

lukestern:

"Tesla dual motor, all-wheel drive performance Model 3: 3.5 sec 0-60mph 155 mph Top Speed 310 mile Range"

"Cost of all options, wheels, paint, etc is included (apart from Autopilot). Cost is $78k. About same as BMW M3, but 15% quicker & with better handling. Will beat anything in its class on the track."

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998085655958769665

He lost me when he overreached and said better handling than a M3   ... handling is not traction on wet or skipad numbers...don't think he knows what handling is...

Seriously, regardless of that desperate plug comparing a model3 to an M3, I think the dual motor AWD is a good move, cost little R&D investment to do it and yields another new Model3 that may appeal to more people, like those that want AWD for winter, etc.

He's a bit provocative with his statements as always, but that we know by now .  Let's wait and see how this turns out. It might actually be quite quick around the track. There are a lot of things that suggest that it will be capable of maintaining high power output for a long period of time due to different battery tech/cooling, silicon carbide in the inverters and other motors.

True, but even if it is fast around a track it doesn't mean it handles better when it does it in virtue of HP/torque, a Cayenne Turbo may be faster around a track than a Boxster but it doesn't handle better nor does it compare dynamically, this one is going to an even heavier car than the normal Model3 for example, the advantage is that its going have more power and its going to be better at laying that power on the ground. Its going to handle better than the regular Model3 but that is it, its still a Model3 by Tesla.

Like I said, its a good move but comparing handling to an M3 is kind of insulting the intelligence of anyone that has a minimum of knowledge about sportscars and handling... then again that is not his target audience either so I guess he can get away with such statements... kind of like what some politicians say to their voters... But there is no need to go there by Musk, handling better than an M3 is not the purpose of this car, it has other advatages over the regular Model3, he should focus on those without needing to resort to hyperbole and exaggerations, does more harm than good, makes him loose even more credibility.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Oh Carlos, you are so WRONG...I read on several EV-related websites today that Tesla Model 3 Performance is the killer of the Porsche 911...

The Musk Cult is absolutely amazing in their rhetoric and even more clueless.  While this car may be quick, Tesla has virtually zero experience in Motorsports, so these comparisons are moot.  

Carlos from Spain:

lukestern:

Carlos from Spain:

lukestern:

"Tesla dual motor, all-wheel drive performance Model 3: 3.5 sec 0-60mph 155 mph Top Speed 310 mile Range"

"Cost of all options, wheels, paint, etc is included (apart from Autopilot). Cost is $78k. About same as BMW M3, but 15% quicker & with better handling. Will beat anything in its class on the track."

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998085655958769665

He lost me when he overreached and said better handling than a M3   ... handling is not traction on wet or skipad numbers...don't think he knows what handling is...

Seriously, regardless of that desperate plug comparing a model3 to an M3, I think the dual motor AWD is a good move, cost little R&D investment to do it and yields another new Model3 that may appeal to more people, like those that want AWD for winter, etc.

He's a bit provocative with his statements as always, but that we know by now .  Let's wait and see how this turns out. It might actually be quite quick around the track. There are a lot of things that suggest that it will be capable of maintaining high power output for a long period of time due to different battery tech/cooling, silicon carbide in the inverters and other motors.

True, but even if it is fast around a track it doesn't mean it handles better when it does it in virtue of HP/torque, a Cayenne Turbo may be faster around a track than a Boxster but it doesn't handle better nor does it compare dynamically, this one is going to an even heavier car than the normal Model3 for example, the advantage is that its going have more power and its going to be better at laying that power on the ground. Its going to handle better than the regular Model3 but that is it, its still a Model3 by Tesla.

Like I said, its a good move but comparing handling to an M3 is kind of insulting the intelligence of anyone that has a minimum of knowledge about sportscars and handling... then again that is not his target audience either so I guess he can get away with such statements... kind of like what some politicians say to their voters... But there is no need to go there by Musk, handling better than an M3 is not the purpose of this car, it has other advatages over the regular Model3, he should focus on those without needing to resort to hyperbole and exaggerations, does more harm than good, makes him loose even more credibility.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

I fully agree with all that Carlos 

The provocative part of Musks tweets is a bit too much and Tesla would probably benefit if he chill down a bit. I like Tesla, but Musks tweets and some of the things he over promises - not so much. The Model 3 will sell on it's own merits and should not be compared with a particular car. That comparison should (if relevant) be done by those who review the car, not by Musk. Reason for this statement is probably just a response to the "Tesla killer" headlines and statements that has been made from other car manufacturers. It is of course still silly.

If it however was me that had to choose I'd pick the Model 3 performance over the BMW M3 without a blink, but that is for many other reasons weighting pros and cons with the two different products. I would make this choice fully aware of that the BMW is the much better cornering machine having a chassis that has been tweaked and developed over many decades.

lukestern:

 

The provocative part of Musks tweets is a bit too much and Tesla would probably benefit if he chill down a bit. I like Tesla, but Musks tweets and some of the things he over promises - not so much. The Model 3 will sell on it's own merits and should not be compared with a particular car. That comparison should (if relevant) be done by those who review the car, not by Musk. Reason for this statement is probably just a response to the "Tesla killer" headlines and statements that has been made from other car manufacturers. It is of course still silly.

Very true  

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

BTW, Auto Bild tested Model 3 Long Range few issue ago.

Measured range in best case scenario was 460km. Not bad at all.

Measured performance were Golf GTI like. Measured weight was 1758kg. Imagine weight of "Performance" model...

Interior space and boot are Golf alike again despite the fact that Model 3 is Macan size like exterior wise.

Drive dynamics are Hyundai/Kia like.

Oh, Full throttle autobahn driving shrinks the range to Max 200km. 

Slightly biased comment in that GTI has same cargo space as a Macan...

I have had a Macan and currently a Golf R. Cargo size is really similar......

dont be foooled by the ‘suv’ claim of the Macan. The truck is not ‘suv’ sized 

KresoF1:

Measured performance were Golf GTI like. Measured weight was 1758kg. Imagine weight of "Performance" model...

Probably 30-50kg more for the AWD/performance versions. It's just the additional front motor and it is not very heavy.

Interior space and boot are Golf alike again despite the fact that Model 3 is Macan size like exterior wise.

Not sure how that was measured? The Model 3 has a bigger boot space than the Macan and the Golf according to figures I've seen.

Drive dynamics are Hyundai/Kia like.

A bit far fetched I think. It's a difficult comparison to make. Tesla btw already changed the suspension on the current Model 3 production line. Uncertain what suspension was fitted on the Auto Bild test car though.

Oh, Full throttle autobahn driving shrinks the range to Max 200km. 

Yepp. This is the nature of the high efficient EV drivetrain. High speed will kill the range. The Audi E-tron, I-pace and Mission-E will all suffer the same problem.
 

Model 3 rear trunk is 340l and front 85l according to the Tesla Model 3 German brochure. Macan is 500l. 

Interesting. Next gen Superchargers and might also be the rumored X/S updates coming.
 

The improvements never stop... Of course that’s all Musk can rely on to prop up the shares... But at least they keep chugging along. Can you imagine how obsolete the Mission E will be after 4 years of the stale strategy of Porsche?

Additional disclosure from Elon Musk on Tesla plans for the Model 3 basic model at $35k...

...assume that will be filed with the SEC as a supplement to the 10-K risk factors... 

What is new there? They are doing the same they did with X and S models... Ship the expensive ones first.

The car configurator has been out for months and people know how much the car they want/afford will cost. Now they are just offering more options than before albeit for more $$. If anything this moves the needle up in terms of average selling price of the model 3 and thus removes some pressure on raising more capital.

TSLA up 4% for the ones who care... not saying it will happen but the grounds for one of the biggest short squeezes are there. Surely a veteran financier like you knows that every short seller will buy back one day unlike the longs who can hold it forever.

Can’t wait to see these sub $100k Mission E ready to buy at the dealer  the above really puts things in perspective plus the fact that BMW and GM loose money on all the EV they sell.

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Additional disclosure from Elon Musk on Tesla plans for the Model 3 basic model at $35k...

 

...assume that will be filed with the SEC as a supplement to the 10-K risk factors... 

Maybe you should report it and sue them...

noone1:

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Additional disclosure from Elon Musk on Tesla plans for the Model 3 basic model at $35k...

 

...assume that will be filed with the SEC as a supplement to the 10-K risk factors... 

Maybe you should report it and sue them...

As you might recall, the SEC have already got this on the radar... 

Link: https://probesreporter.com/sites/default/files/uploads/documents/TSLA%202018-0208.pdf

OH, OH, the Model 3 may be in trouble. Consumer Reports refuses to recommend it. Claims poor braking, wind noise and uncomfortable rear seating.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/21/technology/tesla-model-3-consumer-reports/index.html

Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.

CR is irrelevant. 

What is CR?

Of course, as illustrated above, Consumer Reports was only relevant when the periodical rated the Tesla Model S as the  best car in the world.  https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tesla-model-s-p85d-earns-top-road-test-score

This is not good news. CR has consistently rated Tesla cars highly. For them to give a thumb down to the Model 3 is not good because those buyers usually are CR subscribers or at least follow their recommendations.

Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.

nberry:

OH, OH, the Model 3 may be in trouble. Consumer Reports refuses to recommend it. Claims poor braking, wind noise and uncomfortable rear seating.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/21/technology/tesla-model-3-consumer-reports/index.html

That’s not a big deal for a $35k car.... they should be lucky to have a seat to sit on ..... Better than an M3 he said  

Not recommending it doesn't mean it's bad. I believe AMS (or one of those major german mags) said it was good and felt like the future of cars.

This much I know. Based on the CR review, I would not buy the car.

Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.