Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread

    Feb 6, 2008 1:33:28 PM

    cgt
    Co-Pilot
    cgt
    Loc: London
    Posts: 243, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2004

    Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Just wondering what some of our more vocal Spanish friends make of the happenings at the F1 testing last week. I was waiting to see if anybody on this board would comment, especially when it has been quite a major story on most F1 websites. Any thoughts guys?

    Feb 6, 2008 1:55:57 PM

    WAY
    Rennteam Master
    WAY
    Loc: Melbourne, Australia
    Posts: 3344, Gallery
    Registered on: May 11, 2004
    Reply to: cgt

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Absolutely disgusting. No place in the sport (or anywhere!) for this.

    Feb 6, 2008 2:25:05 PM

    Shakal
    Expert
    Shakal
    Loc: Croatia , Croatia
    Posts: 1375, Gallery
    Registered on: May 30, 2006
    Reply to: WAY

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Quote:
    WAY said:
    Absolutely disgusting. No place in the sport (or anywhere!) for this.



    Completly agree.

    I hope they will start all legal procedures against those racists...

    Feb 6, 2008 2:43:28 PM

    easy_rider911
    Rennteam VIP
    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: Shakal

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    +1

    @cgt: I did post a thread on this subject. By mistake I posted it on the Off Topic Board. It was a long day, I was tired and wasn't thinking

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=415388&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD

    Feb 6, 2008 2:51:06 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: Shakal

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Quote:
    Shakal said:
    Quote:
    WAY said:
    Absolutely disgusting. No place in the sport (or anywhere!) for this.



    Completly agree.

    I hope they will start all legal procedures against those racists...



    Agreed. There is no excuse for insulting someone based on their race .

    Feb 6, 2008 3:04:00 PM

    cgt
    Co-Pilot
    cgt
    Loc: London
    Posts: 243, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2004
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Sadly, and not just based on this incident, I think F1 has over the last few years been taking on some of the more unpleasant fan aspects of soccer.

    I really couldnt imagine such behaviour in the days of Senna Mansell and Prost.

    Feb 6, 2008 6:20:32 PM

    ADias
    Rennteam Pro
    ADias
    Loc: Southwest USA , United States
    Posts: 2495, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 9, 2004
    Reply to: cgt

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Disgusting. Racism in Europe is never in the headlines, but it's there, ugly and i bet will be worse in the future. It surfaced in F1 but it will be far more visible elsewhere. Sad indeed!

    Feb 6, 2008 6:45:58 PM

    reginos
    Rennteam VIP
    reginos
    Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus
    Posts: 12130, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 20, 2005
    Reply to: cgt

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Quote:
    cgt said:
    Just wondering what some of our more vocal Spanish friends make of the happenings at the F1 testing last week. I was waiting to see if anybody on this board would comment, especially when it has been quite a major story on most F1 websites. Any thoughts guys?


    Any spanish speakers can explain what was on that banner?

    Feb 6, 2008 7:11:31 PM

    Alex18_996CC Offline
    Rennteam Master
    Alex18_996CC
    Loc: Madrid , Spain
    Posts: 3218, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 13, 2004
    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    cgt said:
    Just wondering what some of our more vocal Spanish friends make of the happenings at the F1 testing last week. I was waiting to see if anybody on this board would comment, especially when it has been quite a major story on most F1 websites. Any thoughts guys?


    Any spanish speakers can explain what was on that banner?



    I've already explained my point of view in Easy's post, in the off topic thread....

    I saw that the exact day it happened and I personally felt ridiculous, those guys knew what they where doing, and knew they where going to be seen world wide, again they where just a stupid, small group of spanish fans....As I said, everyone has reached the point of saying certain negative comments towards the other competitors (again, as I said in easy's thread, I include myself), but this has completely passed the limit, its just pathetic to see such spanish fans doing that, and even more when you are spanish, so please dont take it seriously, at all

    Do I really have to translate what the banners said?, its just too easy and simple, specially when they are people with no brain at all + racist, you can imagine what they said !

    Feb 6, 2008 7:25:23 PM

    reginos
    Rennteam VIP
    reginos
    Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus
    Posts: 12130, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 20, 2005
    Reply to: Alex18_996CC

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Racism (and not only on the basis of colour/race) has been part of human nature throughout history. It is one of the evils of mankind. It cannot be totally eradicated even in developed and educated societies. But IMO the press, the authorities etc by focussing on events like the Hamilton incidence, help these complexed idiots to gain publicity and potentially find imitators. IMO they should be ignored completely and ultimately they will get fed up.

    Feb 6, 2008 8:11:16 PM

    fritz
    Rennteam VIP
    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
    Posts: 10248, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Racism (and not only on the basis of colour/race) has been part of human nature throughout history. It is one of the evils of mankind. It cannot be totally eradicated even in developed and educated societies. But IMO the press, the authorities etc by focussing on events like the Hamilton incidence, help these complexed idiots to gain publicity and potentially find imitators. IMO they should be ignored completely and ultimately they will get fed up.



    I don't agree. It may be true that ignoring bigots might help eliminate their incentive to repeat their acts and discourage others from copying them.

    But universal condemnation of such acts by the media, internet fora and public opinion in general would be much more effective, due to making such people feel totally isolated. Not too many normal people are happy with feeling isolated.

    I am sure that many of us remember such bigotry being common in our own countries, but perceive an improvement in our own lifetime. If Spain is lower on the "learning curve" in this regard due to the "Franco factor", as implied by the BBC(?) article linked to above, then maybe outsiders should make some allowance for this and not point their fingers at the Iberian peninsula. Doing that would just be another form of racial prejudice, without the skin-color factor.

    Feb 6, 2008 8:47:22 PM

    Heist
    Rennteam Master
    Heist
    Loc: Washington, DC , United States
    Posts: 4147, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 15, 2007
    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Sadly, a few bad Spaniards have cast a negative light on all of Spain here in African American community who haven't been to or know Spaniards beyond what they see on T/V.

    I've been fortunate enough to travel on business and pleasure and being a black man from America, there are pockets of racism around the world against people of color, strangely even in Africa from Black African's who have a slightly downward gaze on African American's (they call us Akatas) - you begin to realize that no matter what level of advancement a society/country has, racism/ethnocentrism will never fully fade away.

    Sadly I don't know if it's nature or nuture or what the corrective physcological action is. The best you can do is continue to fight and denounce.

    Feb 6, 2008 9:30:44 PM

    JimFlat6
    Rennteam VIP
    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: Heist

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Fritz, I think you are well intentioned, but how could pointing fingers at Iberians be racism unless you believe they are not white?? Or are you revealing some bizarre prejudice yourself?

    Heist, just look at Cuba. Its basically run by a gang of descendants from the Galician region of Spain. Cuba is notorious for keeping black Cubans lower down on the Marxist
    power ladder and used them for cannon fodder in Angola.

    Spain in general is not racist, but recently they have been over run with African illegal immigrants, Arabs and Britsh expats. The Hamilton thing is really more of a joke than a real racist only demonstration. Spain has its own internal regional social wars. If Hamilton was also half Catalan they'd be really mad and might throw rocks at him and his car.







    Feb 6, 2008 9:56:52 PM

    fritz
    Rennteam VIP
    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
    Posts: 10248, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Fritz, I think you are well intentioned, but how could pointing fingers at Iberians be racism unless you believe they are not white?? Or are you revealing some bizarre prejudice yourself?



    Jim, my Merriam-Webster gives one definition of "race" (as the word is used in this context) as:
    "a family, tribe, people or nation belonging to the same stock".
    I think that the word "race" can therefore be applied to the Spanish nation as appropriately as it can be applied to most cultural groups, if you make a little allowance for all races having intermingled from time immemorial. Use of the word is not necessarily limited to non-white "races".

    I am not necessarily well-intentioned, but I might not be able to deny being a pedant.

    Feb 6, 2008 10:21:56 PM

    JimFlat6
    Rennteam VIP
    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Fritz, I think you need a new dictionary or Merriam needs a less PC editor. Before your Merriams latest editor, race was just that race, as in Asian, Caucasian, Black etc.. How they could equate equally races with subsets of ethnicity and tribes therein is flatly intellectually dishonest.

    By Merriams latest hollow standard, they could argue that Scotsmen are a seperate race from Germans or that Danes are a seperate race from Swedes when obviously they are not. So their definition is ridiculous.

    The Iberians are descendants of the same Indo European tribes who swept across Europe from the steppes of Russia in ancient great waves of migration. Those peoples wrested Europe from the Neanderthals, some Neanderthals apparently survived and now work for Merriams Publishing Company.

    Feb 6, 2008 10:33:15 PM

    fritz
    Rennteam VIP
    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
    Posts: 10248, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Fritz, I think you need a new dictionary or Merriam needs a less PC editor. Before your Merriams latest editor, race was just that race, as in Asian, Caucasian, Black etc.. How they could equate equally races with subsets of ethnicity and tribes therein is flatly intellectually dishonest.

    By Merriams latest hollow standard, they could argue that Scotsmen are a seperate race from Germans or that Danes are a seperate race from Swedes when obviously they are not. So their definition is ridiculous.

    The Iberians are descendants of the same Indo European tribes who swept across Europe from the steppes of Russia in ancient great waves of migration. Those peoples wrested Europe from the Neanderthals, some Neanderthals apparently survived and now work for Merriams Publishing Company.



    Jim, thanks for the heads-up. In view of your superior knowledge I'm now selling my shares in Merriam-Webster and will re-invest the proceeds in you.

    Just kidding, of course.

    Feb 6, 2008 10:41:48 PM

    JimFlat6
    Rennteam VIP
    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Don't invest in me unless you want to help corner the parts market for Austin Allegros.

    But Fritz, feel free to alert us when you find Merriams next political correct faux pas.

    Feb 6, 2008 10:53:46 PM

    fritz
    Rennteam VIP
    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
    Posts: 10248, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Don't invest in me unless you want to help corner the parts market for Austin Allegros.

    But Fritz, feel free to alert us when you find Merriams next political correct faux pas.





    You are way off the mark, Jim. My Merriam pre-dates political correctness. It's even older than those square steering wheels in your collection of Allegro parts.

    Feb 6, 2008 11:24:29 PM

    blade
    Junior
    blade
    Loc: confusion
    Posts: 51, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 25, 2007
    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Wow; racism in racing !

    Feb 7, 2008 12:06:36 AM

    WBH
    Expert
    WBH
    Loc: CA
    Posts: 1963, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 2, 2004
    Reply to: blade

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Humans will unfortunately be humans....

    Don't know whether one should be more disappointed in racism/anti-Semitism, etc in regions that are widely known to be intolerant...or disappointed w/the more sophisticated hypocrisy/discrimination one often finds in more allegedly enlightened/liberal/highly educated regions like Manhattan or SF or London....

    Typically smarter to simply migrate to places that have industries/economies more dependent upon more meritocratic productivity/innovation/capital markets....rather remaining in closed, non-competitive societies where many can survive, despite selectively employing/doing business with people w/whom the supposedly indigenous/dominant population is more "comfortable"....

    For 40+ yrs seems that smartest grads of IIT's in India have migrated to US for grad school at Stanford, Berkeley, etc....and sharpest alums typically never choose to return to ThirdWorld (and many have become founders and/or senior execs at many major tech cos. and investment banks/hedge funds in US)....and many of sharpest kids in Podunk US migrate to CA/Northeast for college and then migrate to careers in CA/NYC...and never return to Podunk US...suspect such Darwinian migration patterns exist in many regions, creating an intensifying "death spiral" of racism and intolerance (and typically weak economies w/poor education levels) in places where almost no one lives/works by choice.....in many ways, capitalist markets/industries are more efficient/effective than alternative approaches of legislating "tolerance"....

    Feb 7, 2008 1:01:08 AM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Spain in general is not racist, but recently they have been over run with African illegal immigrants, Arabs and Britsh expats. The Hamilton thing is really more of a joke than a real racist only demonstration. Spain has its own internal regional social wars. If Hamilton was also half Catalan they'd be really mad and might throw rocks at him and his car.











    This is the key. I would say that the majority of people aren't racist (in the sense that they would hold a condescending view of another race), but in some places people just feel threatened by the influx of illegal immigrants. Opposing such immigration isn't racism (as much as some PC-brigade members would lead you to believe that), but insulting a man because he is black (in this example) is below any standard and those fans should at least be banned from attending any other F1 races.

    Feb 7, 2008 3:16:52 AM

    MarkdsvM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Markdsv
    Loc: Schevening , Netherlands
    Posts: 1197, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 24, 2007
    Reply to: WBH

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    There is no place for racism in any sport ! I was disgusted with the small number of people who spoil it for others.

    Feb 14, 2008 9:32:04 AM

    cgt
    Co-Pilot
    cgt
    Loc: London
    Posts: 243, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2004
    Reply to: MarkdsvM

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    [url=http://www.planet-f1.com/story/018954,3261_3144027,00.html[/url],

    "Fernando's Asturias"

    Gangajas will be p*****!!

    Feb 14, 2008 10:33:18 AM

    Enzo II
    Veteran
    Enzo II
    Loc: Spain , Spain
    Posts: 1248, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 1, 2006
    Reply to: cgt

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test



    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article3341989.ece

    Feb 14, 2008 2:37:20 PM

    reginos
    Rennteam VIP
    reginos
    Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus
    Posts: 12130, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 20, 2005
    Reply to: Enzo II

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    I am afraid, Hamilton's effort for the title will be derailed again this year, if too much attention is allowed to be paid to this incident. I know it is politically correct to denounce these incidents but too much focus on the issue will bring imitators in any of the circuits and will act as a distraction for young Hamilton. Ferrari must be overjoyed with this McLaren's most recent predicament.

    Feb 14, 2008 4:05:18 PM

    easy_rider911
    Rennteam VIP
    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Politically correct?? Only someone who has never faced racism can speak like that.

    If you were non-white, like I am, you'd be absolutely furious at the disgusting, racist behaviour of those st*pid idi*ts that pulled that stunt.

    Do you actually think that someone like me reacts against what they did to Hamilton out of political correctness?

    I think you should take your words back at once.

    Feb 14, 2008 4:36:44 PM

    palenimbus
    Expert
    palenimbus
    Loc: Baden-Württemberg, Germany
    Posts: 1824, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 6, 2004
    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    When John Mccain called asians gooks nobody made a big fuss, but anytime a black person is involved a volcano erupts and oprah is discussing it the next day.

    Feb 14, 2008 5:25:58 PM

    easy_rider911
    Rennteam VIP
    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: palenimbus

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Well, I'm making a fuss. Calling Asians insulting names is equally offensive and wrong.

    McCain may dislike the Vietnamese because he fought against them, was captured and imprisoned by them for years and physically tortured too.

    However, the US should never have interfered in Vietnam in the first place. What the US did there was illegal under international law. You can't invade a country because you dislike its political system.

    That doesn't make the torture the Vietnamese did on McCain acceptable, but, if the US hadn't entered an illegal war there, he would never have been in a position where they could torture him.

    As such, his use of offensive language against Vietnamese is just as unacceptable as anyone using racist language or making racist gestures to a black man.

    Both are equally offensive and if a fuss is made over either or both of them, it's entirely justified.

    Feb 14, 2008 5:43:55 PM

    racerx
    Rennteam VIP
    racerx
    Loc: 1985 porsche dealership , Bouvet Island
    Posts: 8751, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 27, 2004
    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:

    However, the US should never have interfered in Vietnam in the first place. What the US did there was illegal under international law. You can't invade a country because you dislike its political system.

    .



    What are you smoking Easy?

    In Vietnam, the US entered as "advisors" at the request of the South Vietnamese Govt. under KENNEDY.

    There were 2 countries North and South.

    Just as there are STILL 2 Korea's because of US actions. South Vietnam was not perfect but it was not Totalitarian. 58,000 americans died there to stop world dominatiom by the then very strong threat of Communism.

    The ONLY reason we failed ultimately is because we DID NOT invade the North. It could have been over in months had we done that but our political leaders chose to wage a war of attrition (formulated by Mcnamara an SOB) to avoid a possible wider nuclear conflict.



    Your statements on this matter are offensive AND factually incorrect.

    Feb 14, 2008 6:03:49 PM

    easy_rider911
    Rennteam VIP
    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: racerx

    Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

    So you actually think the US campaign in Vietnam was justified? We must have read very different history books. I guess you still cling on to the idea that the US invasion of Iraq was a good thing too?
     
    Edit

    Forum

    1. All 

    Boards

     
    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 4/17/24 7:16 AM
    GnilM     		763611 1798
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS     		436025 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM     		260824 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48     		257791 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA     		82565 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut     		5325 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    		 873778 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant     		808369 3868
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry     		387690 1526
    Porsche GT4RS 4/17/24 8:53 PM
    GaussM     		385714 1452
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut     		368753 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker     		366669 797
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/21/23 8:09 AM
    the-missile     		289742 550
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 4/11/24 12:32 PM
    Ferdie     		286429 668
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    		 259215 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug     		237541 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel     		225560 101
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel     		220089 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug     		167106 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut     		139036 144
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA     		115776 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM     		107628 685
    Others Valkyrie final design? 4/28/23 2:45 AM
    Rossi     		99343 219
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		83651 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame     		74906 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		53222 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 3/16/24 9:27 PM
    WhoopsyM     		24711 237
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy     		20963 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie     		19234 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997     		16471 120
    129 items found, displaying 1 to 30.