Feb 1, 2008 5:45:23 AM
Feb 1, 2008 1:07:29 PM
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GT2R said:
I have owned 2 Cayennes and am planning on buying a GTS. Yes it is not a sports car. But it is the sportiest of the SUV's on the market today. Many people like myself need a SUV. SO why not a Porsche..By the way it is the largest selling Porsche made isn't it. So someone must like them. I own a number of other Porsches as well, 911's,CGT and a Cayman so I am familiar with most of what Porsche makes and has made. If you recal a few years ago. The Boxster and water cooling was suppose to be the demise of Porsche..If you don't like the Cayenne, don't buy one. If you can find another sports car with better performance and quality of a 911, buy it. This guy is bitching because Porsche is now building something other than air colled 911's. Time has moved on, peoples ideas have changed, governments have regulated older cars out of existence. In 15 years we may all be driving electric/diesel hybrid 911's. But I can guarantee that if it is a Porsche it will be one of the sportiest on the market. Get a grip. Porsche is a business that needs to make money to survive--that is a fact. They can't do it by making only the 911 or Boxster for that matter. When the economy really hits the fan, the cayenne and coming Panamera will help to cushion the impact of the loss of sales of their sports cars..This author is way off base and really doesn't understand business or sportiness...
Feb 1, 2008 3:05:22 PM
Feb 1, 2008 6:55:57 PM
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Spyderidol said:
I have no major qualms with Porsche building SUV's, (I just wish they had built a prettier one) or any other models.
I do think, however, that they must never forget that they are primarily a sports car manufacturer; and lately there seems to have been very little effort placed in that particular direction.(Other areas seem to be more profitable...in the short term)...
Feb 1, 2008 6:58:01 PM
Feb 2, 2008 4:05:19 PM
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Spyderidol said:
I have no major qualms with Porsche building SUV's, (I just wish they had built a prettier one) or any other models.
I'm one of the few that hold the unpopular view (amongst Porschephiles) that the 911 (as we know it) has reached its maximum (o close to it) development. Furthermore, I believe that the decision to maintain the 911 as "top of the range" has a limiting effect on development in the upper reaches of product development.
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GT2R said:
I would imagine that a top of the line sports car (in cost) for Porsche will emerge after the Panamera in the form of a 2 door coupe. It will be a GT car similar to the 928 and share many parts from the Panamera.
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GT2R said:
Since I'm on a roll and this has obviously struck a nerve I will continue. If the 911 is so outdated why, doesn't the so called far supperior F360 or F430 just clean its clock? Even in the ALMS and LeMans the 911 (still all steel) can keep pretty close times to those exotic supercars that F builds. Of course the Ferraris use bigger engines, aluminum bodies, mid engines and cost much more,,,but they still only are fractions of a second faster than a Porsche..So how far outdated is Porsche?? I have a friend who collects Ferraris. My Turbo leaves his 360 Stradalle in the dust in a straight line. My GT3 corners better than his 430 and costs considerably less..By the way on his first 360 his electronics were so screwed up he would have to climb through the window to get into his car because the electronics on the door wouldn't allow it to open..8 years later the problem still exists.He is getting a 430 Scuderia and I would guess that it will be faster on the track than the GT3--it should be for $285K plus tax and licence. I would guess that if I spent $175K on my GT3 for upgrades I would be able to keep up though. You think?
2nd,,I would imagine that a top of the line sports car (in cost) for Porsche will emerge after the Panamera in the form of a 2 door coupe. It will be a GT car similar to the 928 and share many parts from the Panamera. The 911 will still continue. This will give them the entry level Boxster/Cayman, 911 and an upper end GT machine...But I'm sure there will be some people who will complain that Porsche is doing something wrong again like making money on another iteration of an existing platform. Besides, would you pay $200K for a 911 that would beat a 430 Scuderia or Lamborgini? Not many people would. But IF you would, you ought to get your hands on a GT2, because that model will probably clean the Scuderias rear end..IMO
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nberry said:Quote:
GT2R said:
Since I'm on a roll and this has obviously struck a nerve I will continue. If the 911 is so outdated why, doesn't the so called far supperior F360 or F430 just clean its clock? Even in the ALMS and LeMans the 911 (still all steel) can keep pretty close times to those exotic supercars that F builds. Of course the Ferraris use bigger engines, aluminum bodies, mid engines and cost much more,,,but they still only are fractions of a second faster than a Porsche..So how far outdated is Porsche?? I have a friend who collects Ferraris. My Turbo leaves his 360 Stradalle in the dust in a straight line. My GT3 corners better than his 430 and costs considerably less..By the way on his first 360 his electronics were so screwed up he would have to climb through the window to get into his car because the electronics on the door wouldn't allow it to open..8 years later the problem still exists.He is getting a 430 Scuderia and I would guess that it will be faster on the track than the GT3--it should be for $285K plus tax and licence. I would guess that if I spent $175K on my GT3 for upgrades I would be able to keep up though. You think?
2nd,,I would imagine that a top of the line sports car (in cost) for Porsche will emerge after the Panamera in the form of a 2 door coupe. It will be a GT car similar to the 928 and share many parts from the Panamera. The 911 will still continue. This will give them the entry level Boxster/Cayman, 911 and an upper end GT machine...But I'm sure there will be some people who will complain that Porsche is doing something wrong again like making money on another iteration of an existing platform. Besides, would you pay $200K for a 911 that would beat a 430 Scuderia or Lamborgini? Not many people would. But IF you would, you ought to get your hands on a GT2, because that model will probably clean the Scuderias rear end..IMO
Using your logic, then the car for you is the Corvette and the recently introduced GT-R.
What you are missing is though Porsche continues to build sport cars that perform well, their image has suffered a great deal. As a result, Porsche are no longer coveted as they had been in the past. This has led to diminished values for all models. Certainly you can relate to this seeing you own a CGT.
You may say that money is not an issue but it is a reflection of how society views a product. In other words, in the past Porsche used to be about performance exclusivity and reliability generating a cult of owners believing they owned something very special. Today, as several British and American car magazines have written about the modern Porsche "it seems like everyone owns one" they are ubiquitous". Porsche cars are nothing special but their profits are.
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nberry said:
Don't attack Ferrari owners or Ferrari because Porsche chose to make their car available to the masses. So far it is a brillant marketing move judging from Porsche profits.
But do I need to remind you of the Hamilton Watch Company? I believe the author of the article was only pointing out the direction Porsche was taking and the risk it runs.
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GT2R said:
nbergy..If the immage of Porsche is so tarnished, then why is it selling so many cars? The last 2 years have set records for Porsche. I know my CGT has dropped in value. My RS isn't worth the same as it was 6 months ago either. But what did everyone hear when everyone wanted a GT3 or an RS..Porsche isn't building enough of them...So what do you want. Porsche could produce lower volume cars like the RS and have everyone bitch that they can't get one..or they could build alot of them and have everyone bitch that the values have dropped? You can't have it both ways.
Ferrari and Lambo could sell more cars for a while, but the values would drop because of supply and demand if they made too many. If the CGT was made at say 600 units the price wouldn't have been $440,000 it would have been like the Enzo at $700,000..That would have cut alot of buyers out of the market. You should be happy then that in 2008 there will be less 911's coming to the US. The price will go up for a new 911--there will be more demand--and used 911's will rise in value..This is good unless you are the one who wants a new 911 and can't get one.
Thats all I'm saying..It is simplly supply and demand, you can't have high residual prices with alot of production and you can't keep the price of a new car low, with low production numbers. The immage of Porsche is as strong as ever for everyone except in the pruists mind!!
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nberry said:
Don't attack Ferrari owners or Ferrari because Porsche chose to make their car available to the masses. So far it is a brillant marketing move judging from Porsche profits.
But do I need to remind you of the Hamilton Watch Company? I believe the author of the article was only pointing out the direction Porsche was taking and the risk it runs.
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JimFlat6 said:
And at some point, maybe now, to be constantly jabbing at anyone about their preferred cars reduced $$ value crosses the line into becoming boorish, effete and obsessed.
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fritz said:Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
And at some point, maybe now, to be constantly jabbing at anyone about their preferred cars reduced $$ value crosses the line into becoming boorish, effete and obsessed.
We are beginning to see more Starbucks Coffee houses here in Germany now. Thanks Jim for warning us about the effects of over-indulging in their products.
Gee, who'd want to be classified as boorish, effete and obsessed?