Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - 997 FACELIFT - Page3

Feb 8, 2008 9:09:45 AM

paczo911: Junior; Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria; Posts: 79, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 1, 2005; Reply to: MJSpeed

Re: 997 FACELIFT

I agree with MJSpeed. Call me a purist, a luddite, or whatever you like, but for me a 911 must always remain a SPORTS car, not some kind of a luxurious cruiser. A sports car is meant to be fast, but not only that, it must be agile, poised, balanced, and how one could achieve that with the added weight of Sat Nav, Bluetooth modules, i-pod connection, and so on...

If you want a Porsche that is powerful and fast, but also has all the gadgets that you may like, then go buy a Cayenne or the upcoming Panamera, order it with the 500hp engine, and all will be OK, you will have your 2 tone, ultra luxurious grand tourer. Just do not insist that a Porsche 911 must be that way...

Actually maybe the best choice will be to be able to order most of the options on your own 911. That way one would be able to order his or her 911 with no luxuries at all, but with a powerkit and PCCB for example, just to extract the best performance, while other would be able to order a 911 with the luxuries they want, and that's it, all Porsche 911 customers will be happy.

As for me, I would like a 997 GT3 RS, green with black decals, please....oh, and 200 kg lighter..

Cheers to all of you, guys!

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Feb 8, 2008 9:51:02 AM

john999s: Senior; Loc: Hessen, Germany , Germany; Posts: 630, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2005; Reply to: paczo911

Re: 997 FACELIFT

IMHO it would be nice to have the option of a lighter, faster 911 without more power or the compromises that a GT3 requires-

Get the weight down closer to 1200kg with existing power of an 'S' and not only would the all round performance improve hugely but the emissions, consumption of fuel, brakes, tyres etc.

The more radical track based cars could remain of course with more compromised ride height/clearances, bigger aerodynamic aids, adjustable geometry, more power etc.

Some of this has been said before of course.

Lets say all 911's broke the mould and had PCCB of a size appropriate to weight performance (and Xenon! I can't believe its still not standard!!). Lets say the aluminium doors and weight saving rear lid were applied. Lets say leather is applied to selected areas of the car interior as standard and the plastics upgraded/changed for lighter material. How about some innovative sound insulation and reduced weight materials on the floor/bulkheads? Why not productionize windows in plastic in the rear?

The GT2/3 etc could still have special status. Even more weight saving for even more money. Special adjustable suspension, aerodynamics, race based engine, access to a package of sponsored track days etc. But the series cars could provide even more performance through less weight, intelligent materials and more efficiency compared to competitors rather than adding more and more equipment and power.

I think that people who want a more luxurious 911 should still be able to spec a 'lux' spec with the full leather, full glass windows, comfort suspension, comfier seats, but that the base car should be lighter, more efficient and basically smarter.

Don't get me wrong. I really love my 911. But I think that in these times of greater social responsibility (especially here in Germany) Porsche needs to look harder at efficiency of their products (and I don't mean their engines which already super) and get ahead of the trend and to do more with less.

It would probably be marketing suicide to offer less power or performance stats on a new car but to offer marginal improvements in headline stats but radical improvement in fuel/consumables efficiency, emmissions and real world performance (including times around the Nordschlieife) would give us all a reason to buy a new 911.

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Feb 8, 2008 7:39:40 PM

Atzporsche: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Vancouver , Canada; Posts: 9118, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 7, 2005; Reply to: john999s

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
john999s said:
IMHO it would be nice to have the option of a lighter, faster 911 without more power or the compromises that a GT3 requires-

Get the weight down closer to 1200kg with existing power of an 'S' and not only would the all round performance improve hugely but the emissions, consumption of fuel, brakes, tyres etc.

The more radical track based cars could remain of course with more compromised ride height/clearances, bigger aerodynamic aids, adjustable geometry, more power etc.

Some of this has been said before of course.

Lets say all 911's broke the mould and had PCCB of a size appropriate to weight performance (and Xenon! I can't believe its still not standard!!). Lets say the aluminium doors and weight saving rear lid were applied. Lets say leather is applied to selected areas of the car interior as standard and the plastics upgraded/changed for lighter material. How about some innovative sound insulation and reduced weight materials on the floor/bulkheads? Why not productionize windows in plastic in the rear?

The GT2/3 etc could still have special status. Even more weight saving for even more money. Special adjustable suspension, aerodynamics, race based engine, access to a package of sponsored track days etc. But the series cars could provide even more performance through less weight, intelligent materials and more efficiency compared to competitors rather than adding more and more equipment and power.

I think that people who want a more luxurious 911 should still be able to spec a 'lux' spec with the full leather, full glass windows, comfort suspension, comfier seats, but that the base car should be lighter, more efficient and basically smarter.

Don't get me wrong. I really love my 911. But I think that in these times of greater social responsibility (especially here in Germany) Porsche needs to look harder at efficiency of their products (and I don't mean their engines which already super) and get ahead of the trend and to do more with less.

It would probably be marketing suicide to offer less power or performance stats on a new car but to offer marginal improvements in headline stats but radical improvement in fuel/consumables efficiency, emmissions and real world performance (including times around the Nordschlieife) would give us all a reason to buy a new 911.

amen to that my friend

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Feb 9, 2008 6:58:50 AM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: Atzporsche

Re: 997 FACELIFT

996 Carrera 4S was a great example of how the strip can work on a more modern shape.

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Feb 9, 2008 11:35:53 AM

Eric (Plug Guy): Senior; Loc:; Posts: 622, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 6, 2002; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:

1. PDK
2. Bluetooth (to allow an existing mobile phone to work with car speakers and microphone)
3. Satellite radio
4. USB/firewire sockets
5. MOST iPod input

We can help you solve 2, 3 and 5 quite easily, bro.

Email me anytime: eric@bumperplugs.com

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Feb 9, 2008 5:53:42 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Eric (Plug Guy)

Re: 997 FACELIFT

It seems that we now know the dates of the facelifts:

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=416405&an=0&page=0#416405

Beru, the company that supplies Porsche with the TPMS (tyre pressure monitoring system) has given away this information

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Feb 9, 2008 6:21:58 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
It seems that we now know the dates of the facelifts:

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=416405&an=0&page=0#416405

Beru, the company that supplies Porsche with the TPMS (tyre pressure monitoring system) has given away this information

LOL.

Geez, has anyone simply _telephoned_ Corporate Headquarters in Germany and _asked_ the receptionist when the facelifts are coming out?!

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Feb 9, 2008 6:54:35 PM

Nico997: Pilot; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 392, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
MMD said:
Geez, has anyone simply _telephoned_ Corporate Headquarters in Germany and _asked_ the receptionist when the facelifts are coming out?!

I ordered one and got a date

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Feb 9, 2008 9:11:45 PM

Atzporsche: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Vancouver , Canada; Posts: 9118, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 7, 2005; Reply to: Nico997

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
Nico997 said:
Quote:
MMD said:
Geez, has anyone simply _telephoned_ Corporate Headquarters in Germany and _asked_ the receptionist when the facelifts are coming out?!

I ordered one and got a date

player

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Feb 9, 2008 11:29:08 PM

MJSpeed: Junior; Loc: South Florida , United States; Posts: 80, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 31, 2003; Reply to: Queram

Re: 997 FACELIFT

you're missing the point, I'm not saying that those gadgets/electronics can't be options, for all I care put a humidor and an espresso machine in the cars I guess that's what "car enthusiasts" want/need in their cars...there still should be cars made the way they used to be; involving, visceral and fun to drive after all, that along with its racing results/ heritage is what's made Porsche it is and the reason why many covet the cars...
porsche has never been about instant gratification...good things come to those who wait...or those that take action; I was one of the ones that came up with the idea to write to PCNA and plead them to bring the RS to the States without a sunroof.
Which brings to my last point what the heck does Porsche pricing have to do with anything I said..,

I have one thing to say make the damn cars lighter!!!! I can assure you, you'll enjoy driving them even more!

Quote:
Queram said:
Quote:
MJSpeed said:
I don't know why everyone is so amazed that Porsche doesn't offer the latest "in-car technology" in their cars after all the cup-holr wasn't even introduced until the mid-late 1990's...a cup-holder!

Clearly by the post on this and most other Porsche forums, one can deduce that the Porsche client today is very different than the Porsche client of the past...

As for me take all your gadgets/technology elsewhere...but please make the damn cars lighter!!

You are just looking it from a view of a Porsche fanatic. If you want a lightweight champion GT3 is a far better option and you should not complain about the price since you are buying the cheapest of everything in the world. (My C4S costs 3 times the price of the GT3 in the US)

I am not sure if I can explain since English is not my native language but here it is.

Porsche already offers a phone module. Why not make it a bluetooth.

You offer a sports car range. Why not give a sequential or DSG type of transmission the 911 and CAyman/Boxter line deserves. You already have the stone age tiptronic. Competition is alredy on 2nd 3rd generations.

The list can go like this but the point is that greedy money making is easy when there are brand followers that are loyal to the point of blindness. I even thought about being a sponsor to this forum and sell canned [beep] as long as I can pull a deal with Porsche to use the brand name. I bet I'll make alot of money. Sorry if the example is a little extreme and disgusting.

Yes I am not an only Porsche fan, I am an car enthusiast and I will cross shop when I see something that I like better. I like many defferent things and will give my personal opinion on things that I don't like. You may not like it but hey it is Porsche that manufactured massly and made die hard Porsche fans a minority in the customer profile.

Peace.

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Feb 10, 2008 1:46:48 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Nico997

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
Nico997 said:
Quote:
MMD said:
Geez, has anyone simply _telephoned_ Corporate Headquarters in Germany and _asked_ the receptionist when the facelifts are coming out?!

I ordered one and got a date

Uh oh! It _must_ be a blind date because:

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Feb 20, 2008 11:41:02 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14173, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: MJSpeed

Re: 997 FACELIFT

I heard a '' very strong rumour'' that the cars will be availlable in july/august with PDK

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Feb 20, 2008 2:38:15 PM

Turbo4ever: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 723, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 13, 2007; Reply to: Gnil

Re: 997 FACELIFT

no doubt, july is the first facelift production date.

i guess that would include all carrara and turbo.

still waiting for the GT3 facelift tho.

and just wonder if the current GT2 still in production after the facelifted?

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Feb 20, 2008 6:44:52 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Turbo4ever

Re: 997 FACELIFT

I loved the '05 Carrera S the first time I laid eyes on it, every square inch of it.... I still love it just as much today...

So the new facelift interests me zero (I like my taillamps, thanks..), and the mechanical functional upgrades aren't enough to cause me to spend the depreciation-hit...

I'll likely keep my car for a looong time as the "fun" car it is today, and buy something new and different to satiate my obsession with variety when I'm feeling motivated enough to run out and buy another new "fun" car...

The new ZR1 looks like enough fun to scare me silly and overlook its aesthetic challenges... A stupid-fast car is always a weekend pleaser..

I've always wanted a V-12 Aston, it's fine art..

Or maybe the 998 will be revolutionary enough that it won't seem overtly redundant to me..

But the facelifted 997? Yaaaawwwwwnnnnnnnnn........... I just about nodded my head and bonked my keyboard reading this thread!!!

This, and threads like "show us your blues!", and "what's the classic 911 color?", are why I've been seldom seen lately..

Don't make me have to start a "how strictly should I follow the recommended break-in" thread!!

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Feb 20, 2008 7:44:33 PM

Turbo4ever: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 723, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 13, 2007; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
69bossnine said:
I loved the '05 Carrera S the first time I laid eyes on it, every square inch of it.... I still love it just as much today...

So the new facelift interests me zero (I like my taillamps, thanks..), and the mechanical functional upgrades aren't enough to cause me to spend the depreciation-hit...

I'll likely keep my car for a looong time as the "fun" car it is today, and buy something new and different to satiate my obsession with variety when I'm feeling motivated enough to run out and buy another new "fun" car...

The new ZR1 looks like enough fun to scare me silly and overlook its aesthetic challenges... A stupid-fast car is always a weekend pleaser..

I've always wanted a V-12 Aston, it's fine art..

Or maybe the 998 will be revolutionary enough that it won't seem overtly redundant to me..

But the facelifted 997? Yaaaawwwwwnnnnnnnnn........... I just about nodded my head and bonked my keyboard reading this thread!!! This, and threads like "show us your blues!", and "what's the classic 911 color?", are why I've been seldom seen lately..

Don't make me have to start a "how strictly should I follow the recommended break-in" thread!!

I guess you will say the same thing when the 998 is coming out.

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Feb 20, 2008 7:50:02 PM

SonOfStig: Pilot; Loc: United Kingdom; Posts: 387, Gallery; Registered on: May 28, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 FACELIFT

I had a call from my dealer (cars) last week and the facelift will have both DFI and PDK as I (well, he) understands it and will be out in "a couple of months time". I take that to be around May. He also said "almost all the changes are mechanical", so hopefully the nuttier style updates might have been dropped. I agree with Boss9: the current model is an absolute classic looks-wise, and if you hold onto one for 10 or more years it might even appreciate in value a little as the model becomes more scarce.

Question: do you think I would be better off trading in my current 997 C2S (no sports suspension) for a sport suspension facelifted C2S then selling it after 6-9 months, rather than selling my C2S in 12 months? I was just thinking I might be able to profit from the waiting lists for the younger / lower mileage / newer models.

I admit it, this is really just an excuse to a) get a more powerful car and b) get the sports suspension, but is it a good one?

Cheers,

SoS.

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Feb 20, 2008 8:27:25 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: SonOfStig

Re: 997 FACELIFT

I highly doubt there will be waiting lists for the facelift models...

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Feb 20, 2008 9:01:29 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
Quote:
Dan L said:
Guys,--the 998 is already designed. It's just well hidden inside the bowels of Weissach. (Just like the 997 was already designed before the 996 was released). Just be patient. From what I hear if you like the 997 you're going to love the 998!

Dan

All right. I'll bite. What did you hear?

I'm sworn to secrecy.

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Feb 20, 2008 9:02:28 PM

Turbo4ever: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 723, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 13, 2007; Reply to: SonOfStig

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
SonOfStig said:
I had a call from my dealer (cars) last week and the facelift will have both DFI and PDK as I (well, he) understands it and will be out in "a couple of months time". I take that to be around May. He also said "almost all the changes are mechanical", so hopefully the nuttier style updates might have been dropped. I agree with Boss9: the current model is an absolute classic looks-wise, and if you hold onto one for 10 or more years it might even appreciate in value a little as the model becomes more scarce.

Cheers,

SoS.

I highly doubt the 997 mark 1 would become a classic.

I am glad there will be PDK, but most likely I still want a stick.

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Feb 20, 2008 9:33:51 PM

Nidge: Junior; Loc: UK; Posts: 57, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 12, 2006; Reply to: SonOfStig

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Had a long chat with my dealer re facelift order. All was going well until you look at the cost to change. Its an awful lot of money for a little HP increase, especially when my S is only 18 months old with 8K. I sense that there is a real desire to find buyers and so i dont think that there will be a waiting list for the facelift.

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Feb 20, 2008 9:40:37 PM

Turbo4ever: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 723, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 13, 2007; Reply to: Nidge

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
cheshire porsche said:
All was going well until you look at the cost to change. Its an awful lot of money for a little HP increase,

how bad?

10%?

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Feb 20, 2008 10:25:30 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Turbo4ever

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
Turbo4ever said:
I highly doubt the 997 mark 1 would become a classic.

We've gone around in circles on what makes a "classic" before... As a serious collector, and a member of the classic car restoration industry, I can say with certainty that most of the battle is SURVIVAL. If I can keep an example of a sharp-looking, great performance for its day, great reputation for its day, in pristine and original and low-mile condition car, any car that meets the above criteria.... 30-40 years from now you can bet your damn ass it'll be a classic... It doesn't have to be some limited-production boutique car, just look at the '57 Chevy, early 911, any year Corvette from 1953-1967, Mercedes 280SL, etc.etc.etc...

People can never quite picture the car that they're driving today, ever being fondly remembered and highly SOUGHT AFTER years down the road... So they treat it like a disposable diaper, and as a result, only a select few make it to the "other side" of survival...

Hell, even a Ford Fairlanes and Chevy Belairs rank as classics today. A '57 Chev convert, nicely restored, is a 6-figure car....

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Feb 20, 2008 10:31:26 PM

marketresearch: Newbie; Loc: Switzerland; Posts: 14, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 12, 2007; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Thank you!

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Feb 20, 2008 10:53:02 PM

Turbo4ever: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 723, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 13, 2007; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
69bossnine said:
Quote:
Turbo4ever said:
I highly doubt the 997 mark 1 would become a classic.

We've gone around in circles on what makes a "classic" before... As a serious collector, and a member of the classic car restoration industry, I can say with certainty that most of the battle is SURVIVAL. If I can keep an example of a sharp-looking, great performance for its day, great reputation for its day, in pristine and original and low-mile condition car, any car that meets the above criteria.... 30-40 years from now you can bet your damn ass it'll be a classic... It doesn't have to be some limited-production boutique car, just look at the '57 Chevy, early 911, any year Corvette from 1953-1967, Mercedes 280SL, etc.etc.etc...

People can never quite picture the car that they're driving today, ever being fondly remembered and highly SOUGHT AFTER years down the road... So they treat it like a disposable diaper, and as a result, only a select few make it to the "other side" of survival...

Hell, even a Ford Fairlanes and Chevy Belairs rank as classics today. A '57 Chev convert, nicely restored, is a 6-figure car....

in that case, ANY car could become a classic.

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Feb 21, 2008 12:05:53 AM

U Boat Commander: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 1250, Gallery; Registered on: May 8, 2004; Reply to: Turbo4ever

Re: 997 FACELIFT

^ In theory. My partner collects Datsuns. He has five of them and loves them. Go figure.

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Feb 21, 2008 5:44:46 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: U Boat Commander

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
U Boat Commander said:
^ In theory. My partner collects Datsuns. He has five of them and loves them. Go figure.

lol...thats funny

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Feb 21, 2008 4:51:12 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Turbo4ever

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
Turbo4ever said:
in that case, ANY car could become a classic.

Ummmmm....YEAH, that's often the case!

Typically, it's the people who are not car collectors, who have a real hard time getting their brains wrapped around the notion of seemingly pedestrian cars becoming "classic".... It's more than the original price tag, or the market-demographic, or the rarity..... It's the history, the memories, the significance within the market and within styling/engineering evolution and within civilization overall....

The Ford Model T put the WORLD ON WHEELS.... Yet at the time it was sold new, it was just a common and cheap utensil....

To reserve the word classic only for 6 & 7 figure automotive "royalty" is to miss the entire point of collecting and the entire historic perspective...

Raymond Loewy's 1953 Starlight Coupe mesmerized the automotive world, and forever changed the design direction of modern autos... It was a Studebaker...

The original VW Beetle... I shouldn't have to editorialize that here...

The Ford Mustang, MILLIONS built, and in the top-10 of every classic car list..

Anything that displays what was GOOD at a moment in time, that gives you a window back the past in a positive light, is typically sought and preserved by collectors... The 997 will be remembered as a beauty, and a performance benchmark, making-up ground-kinda-lost with the 996. People will see them 30-40 years from now, and it'll bring back good memories, not bad, nor indifferent...

Furthermore, certain cars that memorialize a NEGATIVE time in automotive history, are also aggressively collected, because it still represents important history, i.e. the Edsel, Tucker, Delorean....

That's all it takes folks... You don't need a flippin' Gullwing Merc or a Duesenberg to own a classic. The 240Z is a classic..., unless your pinky wags prominently...

Think about it, think about ancient clay pots, sitting in museums, PRICELESS, not due to their opulence, but due to their importance and historic tale from that era.

Some of the most historic, invaluable and classic artifacts directly relate to the common man, not the privilaged few...

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Feb 21, 2008 5:28:44 PM

Turbo4ever: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 723, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 13, 2007; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 FACELIFT

^I don't see anything special on the 997, the headlight is borrowed from the 993 etc and the body sharp is very close to the 996. Plus there aren't any performance benchmark too. The 997 has much better looking than the 996, but the 996 is the worst looking 911 in my book. When you mentioned about the Ford model T, original VW beetle and they're truly classic.

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Feb 21, 2008 6:24:08 PM

SonOfStig: Pilot; Loc: United Kingdom; Posts: 387, Gallery; Registered on: May 28, 2005; Reply to: Turbo4ever

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
Turbo4ever said:
^I don't see anything special on the 997, the headlight is borrowed from the 993 etc and the body sharp is very close to the 996. Plus there aren't any performance benchmark too. The 997 has much better looking than the 996, but the 996 is the worst looking 911 in my book. When you mentioned about the Ford model T, original VW beetle and they're truly classic.

Sorry but I completely disagree. The 997 has, unlike the 996:

- Proper sports car 'hips' (OK the 996 4S had them but it was a de-fanged Turbo copy)
- Proper (non-integrated) headlights, indicators etc
- Much better front end at the bottom
- Much, much better interior (even if the electronics are a bit backward, but that won't matter in 10 yrs)
- Much better engine (on the S).

I think the 997 is a modern interpretation of the 993 which, for me, at least, works even better than the original. That's why I think the shape is a pure classic - very understated, very classy, very pure. No silly spoilers / light fripperies or other unecessary tweaks and clearly a 911 but a modern interpretation of one.

Unfortunately the facelift images I have seen seem to break the purity of the shapes involved, particularly at the rear end. This is why I sadly agree with others that my hope of using a waiting list as an excuse to go for the facelift is probably forlorn.

Cheers,

SoS.

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Feb 21, 2008 7:13:20 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Turbo4ever

Re: 997 FACELIFT

Quote:
Turbo4ever said:
^I don't see anything special on the 997, the headlight is borrowed from the 993 etc and the body sharp is very close to the 996. Plus there aren't any performance benchmark too. The 997 has much better looking than the 996, but the 996 is the worst looking 911 in my book. When you mentioned about the Ford model T, original VW beetle and they're truly classic.

The headlamp is EVOLVED from the 993, which in turn was evolved from its predecessors... The 911 has forever been a subtle evolution, with only the 996 standing out as a major step in a different direction. The 997, to me, was Porsche getting the design "back on the evolutionary track".

Regarding performance benchmark, c'mon, the S underpromised and overdelivered on virtually all points. The magazines were all rather shocked by the numbers they pulled from that vehicle when it came out, as was Chevrolet as they thought their 400-horse C6 would easily outpace the new 997..

No, it wasn't the second-coming of Christ or anything, but 2005 sure was a year that Porsche fanatics were cheering en mass, many who had "left the flock" came roaring back into showrooms, and the rest of the world started "daydreaming" about owning an again-beautiful-and-lusciously-hippy 911...

Don't undersell your car, it's better than you think... Just because you sleep with your wife every night, doesn't mean everyone else doesn't fantasize getting one night with her!!!

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Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	5442	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	879321	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	814131	3868
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	389763	1526
Porsche	GT4RS	4/21/24 11:50 AM mcdelaug	389057	1454
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	371284	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	368044	797
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	4/11/24 12:32 PM Ferdie	288464	668
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	260991	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	239539	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	229707	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	220708	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	168838	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	140739	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	117222	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	108392	685
Others	Valkyrie final design?	4/28/23 2:45 AM Rossi	99571	219
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	84023	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	75013	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	53419	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	24931	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	21143	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19441	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16567	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	13575	225

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