Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Ignore everything said here - Page2

Jan 1, 2008 9:29:41 PM

Flagg: Co-Pilot; Loc: Dubai, United Arab Emirates; Posts: 152, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 29, 2007

Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Hiya guys. With my new 997S arriving hopefully in just another day or two, ive been doing a lot of research including the best break-in techniques. Unfortunately I havent really had a hard fact statement about it yet, so I was wondering if anyone here has some experience in the matter.
Ive read that a fairly popular break in path is to stay below 4,200 RPM up to 3000 km

, with no speed restrictions. However, my salesman told me that the correct technique is to stay below 3000 RPM up to 2000 km. Another friend which bought a 997 only 4 months ago from the very same dealership, was told by his salesman to stay below 4000 RPM for the first 400 km's only (he floored it as soon as the counter hit 400... I was with him

)

And then of course theres the 'drive it like you stole it' theory which basically ignores any RPM / speed restrictions and basically going full out all the way

. A very interesting post about this subject can be found here..
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

So, can anyone shed some light onto this matter?

Cheers.

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Jan 1, 2008 10:24:50 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Flagg

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

First of all, many congrats

Second, please just accept what I'm about to write. Okay?

You are RECOMMENDED to keep below 4200rpm for the first 3000km.

You should preferably take longer trips instead of lots of short journeys where the car/fluids hardly become warm.

When starting the car from cold, drive the car gently until the coolant temperature is 80C and the oil temperature is at least 90C. This step is something you should always do - not just during the engine break-in period.

Something v important that you must understand is this. Breaking in the engine is a GRADUAL process. It happens slowly over 3000km but you should not think of this process like it is something that suddenly is over.

Instead, if you understand what it happening, you will see why this is the case. Basically, during engine break in, certain moving parts e.g. piston rings are getting properly seated etc It is not something that happens instantly.

The best recommendation is all set out in the Owners Manual. You should just read it all in there. I would not automatically do what the dealer recommends since they often give conflicting advice and may not have studied the manual carefully.

Best of luck

Enjoy your new car

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Jan 1, 2008 11:00:41 PM

Heist: Rennteam Master; Loc: Washington, DC , United States; Posts: 4147, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 15, 2007; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Do whatever the manual says. It was written by the engineers who built the damn thing so they would know best.

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Jan 2, 2008 12:34:04 AM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: Heist

Ignore everything said here

There is no consensus whatsoever. You have the "Follow the rules" camp. You have the "Drive it like you stole it" camp. And you have the "A well known engineer/shaman (I think he has his own cooking show...) recommends..." camp.

I suggest you treat this like the Iowa Primaries and pick whichever camp has the best haircut.

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Jan 2, 2008 12:46:13 AM

cello: Junior; Loc: Southern NJ & Coast, USA; Posts: 76, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: Heist

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

I do not have the Manual handy and cannot recall what, if anything, it says about varying rpms. But in addition to the above suggestions, esp the longer trip advise, I was told by some pretty knowledgable people to (fairly) continuously vary rpms during the first 500 miles or so (as it helps to seat the rings, valves, etc). I think you will find the car will do X mph at Y rpm and that, at least here in the States, you will typically be travelling at the same approximate speed. What I was told is to simply use the gearing to change rpms to stay at the desired speeds. This also has the happy effect of helping break in the gear box as well. Best of luck!

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Jan 2, 2008 1:58:40 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Heist

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Quote:
Heist said:
Do whatever the manual says. It was written by the engineers who built the damn thing so they would know best.

Does not explain why the break-in RPMs and mileage "recommendation" _varys_ depending on where the car is exported.

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Jan 2, 2008 2:07:12 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

The Popes have spoken! READ it and ENJOY your car accordingly

This is _official word_ from PCA Tech Expert Bruce Anderson published in Panorama:

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Jan 2, 2008 2:11:46 AM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

I would trust Porsche AG's published manual rather than the word of some Porsche Club America "expert".

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Jan 2, 2008 2:17:34 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Quote:
Moogle said:
I would trust Porsche AG's published manual rather than the word of some Porsche Club America "expert".

Not necessarily true. PCA membership and staff has huge experienced brain pool. If you say something wrong in Panorama you'll hear about it. Bruce Anderson is no dummy.

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Jan 2, 2008 3:21:00 AM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: MMD

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Porsche dyno's every motor they make. Apparently this includes full rpm for two minutes. After that, they change the oil. So, my dealer said follow the manual, but don't worry if you exceed the max rpm now and again, but 'use your head'. Also, tires and brake pads need a few hundred km's to reach their potential too, so keep that in mind as well.

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Jan 2, 2008 5:09:49 AM

Nugget: Co-Pilot; Loc: Houston Texas USA , United States; Posts: 237, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 29, 2006; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

The manual was certainly not written by engineers. It was written by marketing and then approved by legal.

Do what you want, but I took my car to autocross the first weekend and drove the hell out of it.

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Jan 2, 2008 5:48:14 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Nugget

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Here's a compromise for better enjoyment and less frustration:

Follow the 4200RPM limit for the first 1K miles, then go to 5200 for the second 1K miles.

-------------------

I took it easy (4200) for the first 200 miles and shifted (varied engine speed) probably every five minutes (literally).

Started to edge up to 5200 at around 500 miles.

Got to 1k and hit redline now and then.

Got to 1.5K and started to hit the rev limiter whenever I felt like it (fortunately I'm not a crazy nutcase leadfooted driver).

Did this pretty much the same on my 997s and with my TT.

No problems.

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Jan 2, 2008 8:06:34 AM

KiwiCanuck: Co-Pilot; Loc: Canada; Posts: 210, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 14, 2005; Reply to: Flagg

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Hello Flagg, Most of the advice you got, apart from the 'drive it like you stole it' twits, was fine.

Although two comments were off:

"Please just accept what I'm about to write. Okay?" !! Yes God, of course....

and "You should preferably take longer trips instead of lots of short journeys where the car/fluids hardly become warm."

That writer gave 2 extremes. Certainly trips that fully warm the fluids are best; but 'longer' or long trips with little variation in engine speed would not be best.

As 'cello' advises, running through the gears, and also without full throttle acceleration [which no one has mentioned yet, but which IS in the manual] allows all components to be nicely bedded in, icluding gear-box, brakes and tires [also not mentioned by anyone]. Maximum revs can and should be gradually raised, so that by 3000 km, or whatever magic figure you choose, you have reached the red-line in your running in process.e.g. raise the max revs by 500rpm, every 500km.

I was closer to 5000km before I would red-line in every gear at full throttle. An engine run in for a short time, will be a fast one, but will not last as long or be as smooth as one that was run in over a longer interval, with attention to revs and full throttle, and that ONLY when the fluids wre all hot. ---and the oil take much longer than expected/other cars to reach hot temps, due to the quantity and the internal-dry sump.

Be patient, the torque is so strong you will still be going faster-quicker than 90% of the other cars, before you arere are fully satisfied it is 'run-in'.

By the way-----the 3.6/3.8 engines are not at their best in power and torque until 10,000km....as in my day car, the 1996 NSX.

Happy New,

KiwiCanuck

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Jan 2, 2008 9:23:49 AM

jplanaux: Junior; Loc: Louisiana; Posts: 112, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2006; Reply to: KiwiCanuck

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Do you think you could possibly be harming your car (engine, drive train, brakes) if you did not follow the recommendations in the manual? I think that there are obviously 3 options:

Option 1) Follow the manual.

Option 2) If you cannot follow the manual (refuse to do what is printed by Porsche), use common sense.

Option 3) If you cannot follow the manual or use common sense, then I guess you must drive it like you stole it.

I have been hanging around this and other forums for about a year. Although the following is purely based on very little information: some people here do not keep their cars long. I am thinking that the drivers who do not intend on keeping their cars long probably tend to go with option 3.

You only have one opportunity to break in a car, however, option 3 could (possibly) give you many opportunities to break in many motors.

But then again, who am I? Just another anonymous person from cyberspace (just like everyone else here).

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Jan 2, 2008 10:03:42 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Heist

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Quote:
Heist said:
Do whatever the manual says. It was written by the engineers who built the damn thing so they would know best.

Precisely.

Some people seem to have a pretty basic difficulty with just following the instruction manual. They obviously think that they know best and not the manufacturer. What does Porsche know after all? They only designed, exhaustively tested and built the damn thing.

What I wrote was lifted straight from the manual. I would also add that the manual itself says that one should vary engine speeds and choice of gear throughout the break in.

But, it's your car, your money and your warranty so it's your choice.

Good luck

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Jan 2, 2008 10:27:33 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Quote:
Moogle said:
I would trust Porsche AG's published manual rather than the word of some Porsche Club America "expert".

I totally agree. The best advice is covered by four letters. "RTFM"

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Jan 2, 2008 2:42:15 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Not in manual:

Better to take many short trips than two or three long trips coveing the initial 2000 miles. Why?

Because several stone-cold to hot to stone-cold cycles are better for crankcase "seasoning" (no kidding that's the word they use).

The multiple expansions and contractions of the CC is apparently a factor in the other parts seating and wearing in evenly.

Something I heard on car and motorcycle boards which makes sense to me.

At least it can't hurt!!

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Jan 2, 2008 2:44:49 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Quote:
dreamcar said:
Quote:
Moogle said:
I would trust Porsche AG's published manual rather than the word of some Porsche Club America "expert".

I totally agree. The best advice is covered by four letters. "RTFM"

Hey Guys, take it easy. (no disrespect intended

)

I'll try to find the similar words of advice in "Excellence" magazine.

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Jan 2, 2008 2:50:29 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Quote:
MMD said:
Not in manual:

Better to take many short trips than two or three long trips coveing the initial 2000 miles. Why?

Because several stone-cold to hot to stone-cold cycles are better for crankcase "seasoning" (no kidding that's the word they use).

The multiple expansions and contractions of the CC is apparently a factor in the other parts seating and wearing in evenly.

Something I heard on car and motorcycle boards which makes sense to me.

At least it can't hurt!!

Strange advice indeed - that's the exact opposite of all the advice I have ever heard. Short journeys mean that the engine never reaches it's optimum operating temperature. Maybe our resident techie Fritz can comment on this one.

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Jan 2, 2008 2:51:44 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Quote:
MMD said:
Quote:
dreamcar said:
Quote:
Moogle said:
I would trust Porsche AG's published manual rather than the word of some Porsche Club America "expert".

I totally agree. The best advice is covered by four letters. "RTFM"

Hey Guys, take it easy. (no disrespect intended )

And no offence taken.

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Jan 2, 2008 4:50:42 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

This topic again??

Hey guys, which is the best method for deep-frying a turkey???

Of course, you realize, there IS only ONE method, and that's the instructions on the website of the turkey-farm who raised that turkey from a young gobbler... All else is simply speculation, even if an angel flies down from the clouds and delivers slightly different instructions, signed by "God". Whatever you do, don't take a bite out of that turkey that was cooked 30-seconds less, with 2-degree hotter oil, and not peanut oil.... It'll blow-up and take your head clean off!

Here we go again, treating such an organic and esoteric subject such as engine-break-in like the instructions for unlocking a gun-safe...

Anybody who understands the engineering and materials aspects, also understand that the manual is simply a safe and simple protocol that the average "consumer" can understand and accomplish. It gets the job done, safely. That doesn't mean there's not more to the story, evidenced by all of the additional "opinions" you get on the subject, some from EXTREMELY reputable and knowledgable sources...

The answer is not a single value, the answer is an acceptible range... If you're strictly-suit-and-tie kinda guy, just read the manual..., and start having your fun a few months later I suppose...

We've proven repeatedly here that debating the subject is about as scientifically fruitful as arguing where the best roadside BBQ shack exists!!! LOL!!!!

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Jan 2, 2008 6:45:04 PM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

69bossnine....your terminology is priceless.

BTW - where you bin for the past 6 weeks?

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Jan 2, 2008 7:02:57 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: John H

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Don't blame me, the recent topics have been stone-cold-boring

I've been looking in, but haven't had much to contribute I'm afraid.

And then, KaPOW... Somebody brings up recommended break-in!

Yes, astute pointy-headed engineers in white lab coats collaborate with extensive physical tests and mechanical calculations, instilling every last drop of their collective intellect and engineering background and knowledge of the black-arts of Porsche-dom towards this:

"Hey bud, try taking it easy for the first 'thou or two.... What??? you want specifics?? O.K., O.K., How's about keeping 'er to 4,200 for the first 2,000 miles... Does that do it for ya??? Good, just slap a post-it on your visor to remember and be gone.... NOW, where are we meeting for beers after work fellas??"

Good thing we're not all hairdressers on a Shampoo manufacturer's forum, or we'd constantly be arguing with those who insist that the "repeat" step on the bottle instructions was written by labratory scientists, and not following those recommendations would be reckless and consequential...

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Jan 2, 2008 7:09:01 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

NMD, thanks for sharing. Every single P-car race shop I have been to, told me drive it easy up to 250 miles and a little harder up to 500 and then go for it. I now have 700 miles on my car, I do rev to over 6000 in low gears for a few seconds but do not beat the car and I have lost maybe .25 quart of oil which is not bad.

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Jan 2, 2008 9:30:44 PM

cello: Junior; Loc: Southern NJ & Coast, USA; Posts: 76, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

[quote............. arguing where the best roadside BBQ shack exists!!! LOL!!!!

Well, based on your avatar, it would where ever they serve 'rat on a stick', of course

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Jan 2, 2008 10:27:36 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: cello

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

No, "rat brisket" is what you're really lookin' for...

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Jan 2, 2008 10:30:13 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Quote:
69bossnine said:
Good thing we're not all hairdressers on a Shampoo manufacturer's forum, or we'd constantly be arguing with those who insist that the "repeat" step on the bottle instructions was written by labratory scientists, and not following those recommendations would be reckless and consequential...

And the best part is, those lab scientists shave their heads so they don't have to waste their lives worrying about crap like that anyway.

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Jan 2, 2008 10:48:35 PM

mal28: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 7, Gallery; Registered on: May 10, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

I agree with following the manual advise, I am not an engineer so I cannot comment on all the technical reasons to break in the car slowly, but I am a doctor and can comment on medical issues

I cannot count all the absurd medical advise I hear people quote, both in person and on TV. Not only is much of it totally wrong, but much of it is just dangerous. Just check out:

http://www.quackwatch.org/00AboutQuackwatch/new.html

If a patient sees me, and I advise a treatment plan, I hope they listen to me and not some "expert" who posted on the web!

Likewise, I do not understnd how somebody can pay $100k for a car and then not follow the advise of the people who designed, built and back the car.

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Jan 2, 2008 11:43:54 PM

cello: Junior; Loc: Southern NJ & Coast, USA; Posts: 76, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Quote:
69bossnine said:
No, "rat brisket" is what you're really lookin' for...

Yes; to be followed, of course, by "Cockroach Cluster" and "Crunchy Baby Frog" from confectionary

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Jan 3, 2008 2:03:11 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: mal28

Re: Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

Quote:
mal28 said:
I agree with following the manual advise, I am not an engineer so I cannot comment on all the technical reasons to break in the car slowly, but I am a doctor and can comment on medical issues

I cannot count all the absurd medical advise I hear people quote, both in person and on TV. Not only is much of it totally wrong, but much of it is just dangerous. Just check out:

http://www.quackwatch.org/00AboutQuackwatch/new.html

If a patient sees me, and I advise a treatment plan, I hope they listen to me and not some "expert" who posted on the web!

Likewise, I do not understnd how somebody can pay $100k for a car and then not follow the advise of the people who designed, built and back the car.

That's all fine and dandy, but you're stretching a bit to compare medical advice/treatment to a manufacturer's collective bean-counters and risk-analysis-suits insisting upon CYA (cover your assphinctersayswhat?) break-in "recommendations" written in such plain terms a (cough) doctor (cough-cough) who's never changed his own oil much less blued-in a set of cam bearings can comprehend and follow...

And besides, even good health advice and/or treatment varies slightly from good doc to good doc, and good lord, can you imagine the fur flying if one doc told all the other docs that his opinion was the ONLY TRUTH, and all others were speculative and/or risky?...

The same thing goes in your profession, the right answer isn't always a specific value, but an allowable range, am I wrong?...

Let's let it go....

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Best break-in techniques for a new 997 ??

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