Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - facelift 997TT - Page2

Jan 2, 2008 4:24:25 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
MKSGR said:

GT2 and GT3 *RS* are said to be unaffected by the change of engines...

This is correct GT2 and GT3s remain unchanged.

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Jan 2, 2008 4:43:27 PM

Eaglejackson: Junior; Loc: Seattle, WA; Posts: 68, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: facelift 997TT

It's interesting to see how on one thread, people who've heard that there's a facelift coming are having second thoughts about getting a TT before the facelift and would prefer to wait till after the FL comes out; and on another thread (this one), people have the opposite view about the FL car -- get the GT1 engine now while it's available and the prospect of an M97 based TT has them concerned.

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Jan 2, 2008 4:43:31 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:

GT2 and GT3 *RS* are said to be unaffected by the change of engines...

This is correct GT2 and GT3s remain unchanged.

I guess this means that the Turbo is out of the question for me.

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Jan 2, 2008 6:59:07 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
MKSGR said:GT2 and GT3 *RS* are said to be uneffected by the change of engines...

Does that mean GT3 (non-RS) gets M97 motor too?????

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Jan 2, 2008 7:08:50 PM

TT Surgeon: Senior; Loc: Long Island, NY , United States; Posts: 783, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: facelift 997TT

This is nothing new, they pulled this(subbing a new crappier engine aka m96) in the 911 when the 996 was first released, it worked then, it will work now. I could see them changing the whole fleet to m97 powerplants, and guess what guys will still buy the cars. glad I got my gt1 block!

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Jan 2, 2008 7:12:19 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Grant

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:GT2 and GT3 *RS* are said to be uneffected by the change of engines...

Does that mean GT3 (non-RS) gets M97 motor too?????

There is a certain rumour... Would clearly accentuate the RS version...

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Jan 2, 2008 7:24:38 PM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: facelift 997TT

sad news..or good news..

don't know what to thing..,happy becouse i have my Gt1 block at home

..but sad becouse i can't stay with it for all life..

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Jan 2, 2008 8:22:27 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
MKSGR said:There is a certain rumour... Would clearly accentuate the RS version...

Really lame if true. So GT3 will just be 997S with X51 (maybe a little more) and LSD? What a scam!

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Jan 2, 2008 8:41:35 PM

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Norway; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2003; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Indeed with the base 997 added turbo chargers Porsche will make approx. USD 10k to 13k more on each car Vs. the GT1 derived engines.

Wendelin Wiedeking in ze boardroom:
"Next year I waant one billon dollar zalary, so change ze engine in ze Turbo"

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Jan 2, 2008 9:35:50 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: temm

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
temm said:
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Indeed with the base 997 added turbo chargers Porsche will make approx. USD 10k to 13k more on each car Vs. the GT1 derived engines.

Wendelin Wiedeking in ze boardroom:
"Next year I waant one billon dollar zalary, so change ze engine in ze Turbo"

Very sad... Nevertheless, imagining him saying that makes me chuckle

.

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Jan 2, 2008 9:37:31 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: temm

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
temm said:
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Indeed with the base 997 added turbo chargers Porsche will make approx. USD 10k to 13k more on each car Vs. the GT1 derived engines.

Wendelin Wiedeking in ze boardroom:
"Next year I waant one billon dollar zalary, so change ze engine in ze Turbo"

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Jan 2, 2008 11:01:13 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:

GT2 and GT3 *RS* are said to be unaffected by the change of engines...

This is correct GT2 and GT3s remain unchanged.

I guess this means that the Turbo is out of the question for me.

Andrej,

Perhaps you should look sooner rather than later for a (used) 993TT or 996TT (or even used 997TT) for ready tunability. I would certainly shy away from an M97-based TT if your desire is to tune it in the future.

Al

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Jan 2, 2008 11:03:58 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Eaglejackson

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
Eaglejackson said:
It's interesting to see how on one thread, people who've heard that there's a facelift coming are having second thoughts about getting a TT before the facelift and would prefer to wait till after the FL comes out; and on another thread (this one), people have the opposite view about the FL car -- get the GT1 engine now while it's available and the prospect of an M97 based TT has them concerned.

It definitely reveals nicely the divergence of enthusiasts' most coveted attributes on a TT-aesthetics versus performance/tunability.

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Jan 3, 2008 12:24:49 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: Turbo Al

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
Turbo Al said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:

GT2 and GT3 *RS* are said to be unaffected by the change of engines...

This is correct GT2 and GT3s remain unchanged.

I guess this means that the Turbo is out of the question for me.

Andrej,

Perhaps you should look sooner rather than later for a (used) 993TT or 996TT (or even used 997TT) for ready tunability. I would certainly shy away from an M97-based TT if your desire is to tune it in the future.

Al

Al, from your mouth into God's ears

. I guess we'll just see.

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Jan 6, 2008 12:35:38 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: facelift 997TT

I just hope this is just an idle rumour

Fitting a M97 engine into the TT (whether 997 facelift or with the introduction of the 998TT) will be a sad day.

I can understand why PAG might be tempted to do this though. Given the low value of the US dollar right now, revenue in Euros from TT sales in the USA must be hurting PAG right now. So if they can squeeze out cost savings, it obviously makes good business sense in the short/medium term. But it's bad news for us enthusiasts and not good for the TT in the long term. It certainly makes the idea of upgrading from a C2S to a TT less attractive to me.

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Jan 6, 2008 1:19:09 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
I just hope this is just an idle rumour Fitting a M97 engine into the TT (whether 997 facelift or with the introduction of the 998TT) will be a sad day.

I can understand why PAG might be tempted to do this though. Given the low value of the US dollar right now, revenue in Euros from TT sales in the USA must be hurting PAG right now. So if they can squeeze out cost savings, it obviously makes good business sense in the short/medium term. But it's bad news for us enthusiasts and not good for the TT in the long term. It certainly makes the idea of upgrading from a C2S to a TT less attractive to me.

Absolutely agree. Would you really pay 50.000 euros more for just a pair of turbochargers and a wider body?

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Jan 6, 2008 5:56:54 PM

MKM: Newbie; Loc: NYC; Posts: 49, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 22, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: facelift 997TT

How old is the current TT engine?

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Jan 6, 2008 6:19:13 PM

chuckd: Newbie; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 42, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2005; Reply to: MKM

Re: facelift 997TT

The engine change makes sense to Porsche marketing since they view the Turbo as an all weather "street" car (true dry sump not required), reserving the GT1 block for track oriented cars like the GT2 and GT3.

If they truly do go this route, it would all be in their favor, in terms of profit. Cheaper engine block allows more profit and gives tuners a more difficult time squeezing more hp out (therefore they protect their market share for those looking for more hp who did so through the tuner route) and Porsche enthusiasts seeking the race derived engine can still do so (but it will cost them since they have to buy a GT3/2).

Damn that Porsche marketing!

One possible side effect of this is that they will inherently have to improve and strengthen the M97 block to deal with the increased hp. It seems that many other companies are/have been choosing the quasi-dry sump engine build as evidenced by BMW's v10 and v8 in the M cars (I think amg still makes dry sump). Oh well.

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Jan 7, 2008 12:50:49 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: MKM

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
MKM said:
How old is the current TT engine?

The block design is from model year 1989.

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Jan 8, 2008 12:49:48 AM

MKM: Newbie; Loc: NYC; Posts: 49, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 22, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: facelift 997TT

thanks

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Jan 30, 2008 2:09:34 PM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: MKM

Re: facelift 997TT

My suspiscion is that if anything, an all new engine that is capable of turbos would be presented, to replace both the GT1 block and the M97....just a guess, but I dont think that in current trim the M97 can be turbocharged to factory acceptable reliability levels.

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Jan 30, 2008 2:44:56 PM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: bostonmini

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
bostonmini said:
but I dont think that in current trim the M97 can be turbocharged to factory acceptable reliability levels.

Good point. I'm not an engineer but I think there is not a big difference between M96 and M97 designwise. And AFAIK PAG tried to turbo-charge the M96 just to find out that it won't be reliable, hence the decision to use the old block for the 996TT. Of course that was more than ten years ago - maybe they developed something more reliable meanwhile

Economically it would make sense for sure if they'd save 10k USD per engine (as speculated in an earlier post). In the old days of the aircooled Porsches a Turbo was a rather rare sight, last FY they sold something like 8,000 TT --> 80 million extra profit almost would equal W.W.'s remuneration in the last FY

Of course the posers might care less

but for the TT/GT3 enthusiasts it would be as hard as the switch from aircooled to watercooled engines

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Jan 30, 2008 2:58:05 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: facelift 997TT

The enthusiasts would switch to Audi/Lambo/Ferrari.

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Jan 30, 2008 3:39:32 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: facelift 997TT

Is the Cayenne Turbo's engine too big and heavy for a 911?

Quote:
The new Cayenne Turbo is powered by a 4.8-litre twin-turbo V8, also with direct fuel injection and VarioCam Plus. Maximum power output is 368 kW (500 bhp) at 6,000 rpm with 700 Nm of torque between 2,250 and 4,500 rpm.

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Jan 30, 2008 11:31:13 PM

neunhundertelf: Junior; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 54, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 16, 2007; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: facelift 997TT

I'd have to say yes, barring a major redesign. We'd end up with a front or mid-engined car, with a V8 and very different styling, which would be a 911 in name only.

Recall that the 928 was originally intended by management to be a 911 replacement. That went well.

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Jan 31, 2008 5:42:40 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: neunhundertelf

Re: facelift 997TT

Yes. but to try and substitute the 911 with a front engined car was.......a little optimistic. No?

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Jan 31, 2008 8:09:31 AM

neunhundertelf: Junior; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 54, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 16, 2007; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: facelift 997TT

Absolutely.

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Jan 31, 2008 4:59:47 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: neunhundertelf

Re: facelift 997TT

Quote:
neunhundertelf said:

Recall that the 928 was originally intended by management to be a 911 replacement. That went well.

If I remember correctly they seriously tried to get a mid-engine into the 928 concept.

My bet: THAT would have killed off the 911.

My point: a replacement for the 911 in the form of a Mid engined GT car isn't a "crazy-will-never-happen" expectation to have of Porsche.

Also at the time, (1975?) Porsche thought the 911 _sports car_ was a dead end. They thought "executive" GT cars were the future.

FWIW... .

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Jan 31, 2008 10:25:26 PM

neunhundertelf: Junior; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 54, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 16, 2007; Reply to: MMD

Re: facelift 997TT

It may have killed off the 911 in the 1970s, but I doubt people would go for it now. We're a couple generations deep in the "grew up wanting a 911" customer base.

My point is this: If Porsche made an MRV8 vehicle, I'm sure it would be an excellent car, but it wouldn't have the special appeal of the 911. I don't want to see Porsche's flagship vehicle become a "poor man's Ferrari".

The 911 concept still has a lot of life left in it.

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Feb 1, 2008 3:36:50 AM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: neunhundertelf

Re: facelift 997TT

If Porsche does release another mid-engine car I think (hope) it will be their top of the line model similar to the Carrera GT. This will alow them to retain the 911 turbo/GT2 while having a car that is more exclusive than most Ferraris/Lamborghinis. I also believe such a car will not be released for at least a few more years in order to keep CGT owners happy.

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