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Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
And exactly why would they wanna compare these two cars?
Would a potential buyer be interested in both?
And why on Earth do they even have a point called "preis-leistung-verhältnis" (price-to-horsepower ratio)?
Is it really a serious and relevant point how many BHP you get pr Euro ?
Would a potential buyer be interested in both?
And why on Earth do they even have a point called "preis-leistung-verhältnis" (price-to-horsepower ratio)?
Is it really a serious and relevant point how many BHP you get pr Euro ?
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Quote:
vinnie said:
Track time of the BMW is impressive though.
Yeah, or the Cayman time is not.
I know that 1.5 secs is an eternity on a track, but having spent $$$ on a Cayman -supposedly one of the greatest handling cars around - you wouldnt wannna end up with a much more affordable (albeit uglyass) Beemer right on yer tail at a track day.
I am shocked that the difference isnt more significant between a dedicated sportscar and a sporty sedan/coupe.
Perhaps the test wasnt 100% scientific and perhaps Porsche - yet again - should ask themselves if they should and can deliver more handlingwise for the premium we pay.
Perhaps the Beemer simply IS that fast and great a car - I just have a very hard time making sense of this.
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:Quote:
vinnie said:
Track time of the BMW is impressive though.
Yeah, or the Cayman time is not.
I know that 1.5 secs is an eternity on a track, but having spent $$$ on a Cayman -supposedly one of the greatest handling cars around - you wouldnt wannna end up with a much more affordable (albeit uglyass) Beemer right on yer tail at a track day.
I am shocked that the difference isnt more significant between a dedicated sportscar and a sporty sedan/coupe.
Perhaps the test wasnt 100% scientific and perhaps Porsche - yet again - should ask themselves if they should and can deliver more handlingwise for the premium we pay.
Perhaps the Beemer simply IS that fast and great a car - I just have a very hard time making sense of this.
IMO, the Cayman's weight, at over 1,400kg/3,100lbs is the main problem - far too heavy. Has Porsche made progress over the years? Not when you look-up the weight of a 1970 911S - about 2,200lbs/1,000kg, with 190hp. Do the math - about 11.6 lbs/hp. Exactly the same as the new Cayman S!!!
Yes, the BMW is even heavier, but I guess today's tire technology and electronics can make-up the difference - oh, its added torque also helps.
While these two cars shouldn't really be directly compared, I can see many potential Cayman buyers preferring the BMW if it's just as fast, has room for 4 and costs significantly less.
IMO, Porsche has more work to do if it intends to keep making money. It is facing increased competition in every segment.
It should follow Ferrari's approach - reducing weight rather than increasing power. Yes, this costs money, but aren't they already charging enough?
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:I know that 1.5 secs is an eternity on a track, but having spent $$$ on a Cayman -supposedly one of the greatest handling cars around - you wouldnt wannna end up with a much more affordable (albeit uglyass) Beemer right on yer tail at a track day.
If the 135i spends $1,400 on engine computer & exhaust mods (400hp and 428ft-lbs torque compared to 295hp and ~250ft-lbs torque for Cayman S), it's the Cayman S that will be following all day...
I'm certain that the Cayman S is the more rewarding car to drive, but it should come with significantly more power for 67% more money than the Bimmer. If not for stepping on the toes of the 997...
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
And exactly why would they wanna compare these two cars?
Would a potential buyer be interested in both?
And why on Earth do they even have a point called "preis-leistung-verhältnis" (price-to-horsepower ratio)?
Is it really a serious and relevant point how many BHP you get pr Euro ?
I have a very friend that debated on ordering one of these two cars. In the end he chose the BMW, because of the base hp and dimensions and the ease of boosting the hp figure for a lot less $$$.
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Quote:
harryo2b said:Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
And exactly why would they wanna compare these two cars?
Would a potential buyer be interested in both?
And why on Earth do they even have a point called "preis-leistung-verhältnis" (price-to-horsepower ratio)?
Is it really a serious and relevant point how many BHP you get pr Euro ?
I have a very friend that debated on ordering one of these two cars. In the end he chose the BMW, because of the base hp and dimensions and the ease of boosting the hp figure for a lot less $$$.
The BMW is ugly like hell, heavy and boring. The Cayman S is a sports car. Nearly 2s on HHR is quite a lot. A car like a Golf GTI does the HHR in slightly below 1.20, thus the BMW is somewhere in the middle between a Golf and the Cayman S
IMO the BMW is not particularly fast...
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Quote:
Pentium said:
For simple, real world situations and straight line performance, the BMW is better.
Objection
In the straight line the Cayman S is also faster (see above excerpt from the article). In essence, the BMW offers a lot of hp in that vehicle class. However, the car's weight is not what I would call "typical" for a small car. For 15-20% more you can get the 335i which is probably a better buy if you need a roomy car?P.S.: Audi needs to work on their 300hp engines. Currently, they have no adequate offer in that segment - which is quite unfortunate given the design of BMW...
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Oops! I only now realised the article said 135i not 335i.
Damn. I am so used with this 335i vs Porsche debate...
Anyway, still, I see the BMW elasticiy times being better than Cayman's so I would say in real world situation, the BMW will stay ahead. Maybe it will have a hard time overtaking a CaymanS but that depends more on the driver
Damn. I am so used with this 335i vs Porsche debate...
Anyway, still, I see the BMW elasticiy times being better than Cayman's so I would say in real world situation, the BMW will stay ahead. Maybe it will have a hard time overtaking a CaymanS but that depends more on the driver
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Quote:
MKSGR said:Objection
But for $1,400 you get 400hp and 428 ft-lbs of torque which makes the 135i significantly faster in a straight line (and WAY faster up here in the high altitude where I live - Cayman loses over 20% of power and torque, Turbos lose virtually none).
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Objection
But for $1,400 you get 400hp and 428 ft-lbs of torque which makes the 135i significantly faster in a straight line (and WAY faster up here in the high altitude where I live - Cayman loses over 20% of power and torque, Turbos lose virtually none).
Grant, one caveat would be that the x35i engines are incapable of prolonged high-speed driving when tuned, as they begin overheating. Probably not terribly important in the US, but noteworthy here.
Dec 28, 2007 4:53:13 PM
- Porsche-Jeck
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MKSGR
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Quote:
MKSGR said:
The Cayman S is a sports car. Nearly 2s on HHR is quite a lot. A car like a Golf GTI does the HHR in slightly below 1.20, thus the BMW is somewhere in the middle between a Golf and the Cayman S
Exactly
Like written in the article: "there is a whole world between the CaymanS and the BMW...." It is also mentioned that the BMW shows a bit too much of understeer, while the CaymanS is perfectly balanced.
How good the "underpowered" CaymanS can be on the track shows the article about the Manthey CaymanS (in the same Sportauto issue). Track-oriented suspension, LSD, Cuptires etc. et voilá: HHR 1:13.6 - THAT's fast
To be honest the Manthey CaymanS is claimed to have 20HP more than the stock car, but I doubt it (no engine tuning, just another exhaust system).
To put the time in perspective: 996 GT3 MK II (though on "normal" tires): 1:13.3
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Quote:
Crash said:Grant, one caveat would be that the x35i engines are incapable of prolonged high-speed driving when tuned, as they begin overheating. Probably not terribly important in the US, but noteworthy here.
Well, that would be noteworthy, as I like all of my cars to be track-worthy on occasion. I thought this issue was largely solved with the addition of an oil cooler (or 2), no?
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
Crash said:Grant, one caveat would be that the x35i engines are incapable of prolonged high-speed driving when tuned, as they begin overheating. Probably not terribly important in the US, but noteworthy here.
Well, that would be noteworthy, as I like all of my cars to be track-worthy on occasion. I thought this issue was largely solved with the addition of an oil cooler (or 2), no?
That may well be the case, but I'm not sure a casual buyer, one who considers ECU tuning as a serious modification, is going to be thrilled about installing additional hardware into their car
.
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
For me clear problem of Cayman S is the price. Choose some nice options and you are at Euro 81K level(as test car at Sport Auto). For that money you can get BMW M3 coupe with 19" and 280km/h limiter and Cayman S will then together with Carrera's look at M3 ass all day long-be it on the autobahn or track... BTW, did I mentioned that example of M3 that Sport Auto used for Super Test reach top speed of 310km/h(on the speedo)? Fully delimited M3 can reach real 295km/h and with forthcoming M-DCT(7speed)gearbox 295km/h will be an option(!).
Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
For me clear problem of Cayman S is the price.
Agreed - they priced that thing too high. Used values have come down quite a bit - I think in response to the fact that they were not worth the original MSRP...
I might pick one up used, if the prices keep becoming more attractive. I was already offered a 2006 S with MANY options and 12k miles for $46k (original price around $74k).
Dec 28, 2007 6:53:22 PM
- SoCal Alan
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Re: BMW vs Cayman S-Sport Auto
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
For me clear problem of Cayman S is the price.
Agreed - they priced that thing too high. Used values have come down quite a bit - I think in response to the fact that they were not worth the original MSRP...
I might pick one up used, if the prices keep becoming more attractive. I was already offered a 2006 S with MANY options and 12k miles for $46k (original price around $74k).
Grant, that's a big jump for you. 1973 -> 2006. Are you sure you can handle it?
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