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Re: "Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to..
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nberry said:Quote:
trip said:Quote:
nberry said:
Carlos, I know you agree with the disgruntled few. That I cannot change.Nor can I change what I know and feel.
If WR is as good as you all say, why isn't racing for a living?
Well he did race for a while and I beleive he was pretty good at itWhy risk your life racing when you can make a lot of money testing Porsche's? Nick this is the stupidest argument I've ever seen you start and thats saying something!
Trip, reread what you wrote and think about this.
Kimi makes over $50 million a year for about 15 races a year. Alfonso probably more. MS made over 80 million a year. How much do you think old WR makes a year testing Porsche's?
No great driver quits racing for fear of injury. They quit because the cannot be competitive.
I tend to agree with this statement
How could anyone compare WR to Michael Schumacher? I mean, Schumacher is a mega star. He made in excess of Euro 500m by driving F1 cars. He outperformed the best over years. He was the first F1 driver who won 7 titles.
Sure, WR is an outstanding talent. But he is several levels below a Michael Schumacher
P.S.: I believe that the rumour quoted above is simply wishful thinking of Porsche marketing guys. Also, the 7:59 for the 599GTB (which was also quoted in the GT2 brochure) is BS. Just look at the SportAuto test to verify my statement...
Re: "Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to..
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fritz said:Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
trip said:Quote:
nberry said:
Carlos, I know you agree with the disgruntled few. That I cannot change.
If WR is as good as you all say, why isn't racing for a living?
Well he did race for a while and I beleive he was pretty good at it
Trip, reread what you wrote and think about this.
Kimi makes over $50 million a year for about 15 races a year. Alfonso probably more. MS made over 80 million a year. How much do you think old WR makes a year testing Porsche's?
No great driver quits racing for fear of injury. They quit because the cannot be competitive.
Nick, the really great ones quit racing because they have nothing left to prove.
Especially not to themselves.
That is another way of saying "I will leave while I am on top because I know there is only one way to go from this point on and that is DOWN."
WR was a great driver (w/i his class) but do not for a second believe he can compete with the like of MS, Kimi, Alphonso, Hamilton, Massa and so on.
Take the best Rally drivers today and WR would agree he could not compete with them on a consistent basis. Time marches on and WR has a sinecure at Porsche which is suitable for his diminshing talents. It is what it is.
Re: "Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to..
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Gauss said:Quote:
pierre said:Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
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Quite a tasteless picture, Dr. Phil. Or maybe I don't get the humor...
as much as I appreciate your occasional funny posts, Dr. Phil, I have to agree with Pierre on this, it's inappropriate.
I disagree. He used the picture to convey a message instead of trying to be deliberately funny. It's an old picture, from back in the '90s, and has been used countless times. Of course you could argue that the image of the kid is misused and I agree with that, but I don't believe that was Lasse's intention.
Re: "Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to..
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Crash said:
I disagree. He used the picture to convey a message instead of trying to be deliberately funny. It's an old picture, from back in the '90s, and has been used countless times. Of course you could argue that the image of the kid is misused and I agree with that, but I don't believe that was Lasse's intention.
Quite so
Just meant to get a point across. Sorry if you dont like the way I did that. No offence intended.
Re: "Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to..
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:Quote:
Crash said:
I disagree. He used the picture to convey a message instead of trying to be deliberately funny. It's an old picture, from back in the '90s, and has been used countless times. Of course you could argue that the image of the kid is misused and I agree with that, but I don't believe that was Lasse's intention.
Quite so
Just meant to get a point across. Sorry if you dont like the way I did that. No offence intended.
None taken
Re: "Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to..
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:Quote:
Crash said:
I disagree. He used the picture to convey a message instead of trying to be deliberately funny. It's an old picture, from back in the '90s, and has been used countless times. Of course you could argue that the image of the kid is misused and I agree with that, but I don't believe that was Lasse's intention.
Quite so
Just meant to get a point across. Sorry if you dont like the way I did that. No offence intended.
Not sure what the 'point' was..
True if you construe difference of opinion as arguing. But, surely, most debates here constitute discussion.
You can't WIN an argument here, but you can embark on a meaningful discussion and often learn (and impart) new stuff along the way.
Re: "Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to..
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John H said:Quote:
Dr. Phil said:Quote:
Crash said:
I disagree. He used the picture to convey a message instead of trying to be deliberately funny. It's an old picture, from back in the '90s, and has been used countless times. Of course you could argue that the image of the kid is misused and I agree with that, but I don't believe that was Lasse's intention.
Quite so
Just meant to get a point across. Sorry if you dont like the way I did that. No offence intended.
Not sure what the 'point' was..
True if you construe difference of opinion as arguing. But, surely, most debates here constitute discussion.
You can't WIN an argument here, but you can embark on a meaningful discussion and often learn (and impart) new stuff along the way.
John, difference of opinion is one thing, but talking rubbish is quite another
.
Re: "Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to..
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
trip said:Quote:
nberry said:
Carlos, I know you agree with the disgruntled few. That I cannot change.
If WR is as good as you all say, why isn't racing for a living?
Well he did race for a while and I beleive he was pretty good at it
Trip, reread what you wrote and think about this.
Kimi makes over $50 million a year for about 15 races a year. Alfonso probably more. MS made over 80 million a year. How much do you think old WR makes a year testing Porsche's?
No great driver quits racing for fear of injury. They quit because the cannot be competitive.
Nick, the really great ones quit racing because they have nothing left to prove.
Especially not to themselves.
That is another way of saying "I will leave while I am on top because I know there is only one way to go from this point on and that is DOWN."
WR was a great driver (w/i his class) but do not for a second believe he can compete with the like of MS, Kimi, Alphonso, Hamilton, Massa and so on.
Take the best Rally drivers today and WR would agree he could not compete with them on a consistent basis. Time marches on and WR has a sinecure at Porsche which is suitable for his diminshing talents. It is what it is.
So Nick, are you say that the test times for porshce cars would have been better on the N'ring had porsche used a driver not classified as geriatric? Does Rohrl not have the skills to do justice to the Nuerburgring? A test track that he has driven many times. Where does the skills of youth end and the wisdom of experience take over? Just a question I don't know the answer to, but I would like to hear your opinion.
Re: "Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to..
Loran, put WR in a strange car on a foreign track he would not be competitive with the young turks placed in a similar situation.
Put WR in a Porsche on the Ring and he will extract the an outstanding time almost every time. Put WR in a strange car on the Ring and his performance though exemplary probably would not compare to a top young driver. For an example, V. Saurma drives more cars around the Ring than WR and their times even in Porsche's are about the same even though WR drives Porsche exclusively. V. Saurma is an older performance racer.
Put Groholm. MS, Kimi, Alonso and so on and they will exceed the performance of the two old timers. Physical abilities deteriorate with time and track knowledge can go only so far.
I realize I am attacking a German icon but time does move on and no one better than WR knows that.
Put WR in a Porsche on the Ring and he will extract the an outstanding time almost every time. Put WR in a strange car on the Ring and his performance though exemplary probably would not compare to a top young driver. For an example, V. Saurma drives more cars around the Ring than WR and their times even in Porsche's are about the same even though WR drives Porsche exclusively. V. Saurma is an older performance racer.
Put Groholm. MS, Kimi, Alonso and so on and they will exceed the performance of the two old timers. Physical abilities deteriorate with time and track knowledge can go only so far.
I realize I am attacking a German icon but time does move on and no one better than WR knows that.
Re: "Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to..
Rallye drivers are friggin bonzai maniacs. Lines mean absolutely zero to them if they want to get by you. F1 drivers are calculating techno jockeys used to driving on a billard table like smooth track. Its two different mindsets and styles.
I have no doubt that in street cars at the bumpy NR that WR would give MS or any F1 driver a serious case of whoopa$$. Could WR now win at F1? No, its a different game played on near perfect track surfaces.
So to all of the Germans here with their "sources", I do not doubt you at all.
I have no doubt that in street cars at the bumpy NR that WR would give MS or any F1 driver a serious case of whoopa$$. Could WR now win at F1? No, its a different game played on near perfect track surfaces.
So to all of the Germans here with their "sources", I do not doubt you at all.
Re: "Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to..
Guys, just leave nick be... he will keep shifting his argument back and forth, in and out and refuse to be pinned down. He does this for a living remember...
What started as WR not knowing how to drive front engined cars (he must now give up his championships as a result) has shifted into he is just too old he can't compete verus guys driving open wheeled cars... duh...
What started as WR not knowing how to drive front engined cars (he must now give up his championships as a result) has shifted into he is just too old he can't compete verus guys driving open wheeled cars... duh...
Re: "Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to..
Quote:
nberry said:
Loran, put WR in a strange car on a foreign track he would not be competitive with the young turks placed in a similar situation.
Put WR in a Porsche on the Ring and he will extract the an outstanding time almost every time. Put WR in a strange car on the Ring and his performance though exemplary probably would not compare to a top young driver. For an example, V. Saurma drives more cars around the Ring than WR and their times even in Porsche's are about the same even though WR drives Porsche exclusively. V. Saurma is an older performance racer.
Put Groholm. MS, Kimi, Alonso and so on and they will exceed the performance of the two old timers. Physical abilities deteriorate with time and track knowledge can go only so far.
I realize I am attacking a German icon but time does move on and no one better than WR knows that.
I have no challenge with what you said. My own experience at a meager 47, supports it. But to categorize WR as a corporate fixture under estimates the contribution his experience and wisdom add to development. He still has magic...but his probably isn't the type of magic framed in youthful genius.
Nick, I hope you had a great Christmas,thanks for the reply.
Re: "Rally legend Walter Röhrl has just added to..
This debate is a bit like debating who is better: Rocky Balboa or Mike Tyson.
It's a pretty academic debate.
But in good Christmas spirit here is my input:
Niki Lauda callled him "genious on wheels" and in 2000 he was voted driver of the millennium by his peers. He only has 2 WRC championships but has had several memorable wins and won 4 Monte Carlo Rallies in 4 different cars.
I dunno if he is the greatest driver ever. Somehow I doubt that very much.
Not because he isnt good, but because the bar has been set higher and higher every year, and we have seen some pretty awesome drivers with even more championships under their belts and even more impressive merits on their CV.
So from a technical - speed/technique/stamina - POV he is probably matched and trumphed by quite a few other drivers.
As for legend status, he is probably still the main man.
Regarding NBR, I would think that he could beat most modern drivers there, simply because he knows this particular track like the back of his hand.
In a Porsche or any other car - I dont think that matters a whole lot to him.
One of his great fortés is his versatility - his Monte Carlo wins in different cars give a hint about this.
So my guess would be that he would own most other drivers on NBR in a Porsche, Ferrari or other car.
I still wonder if Sabine Schmitz or other NBR rats who spend most of their time there, wouldnt be faster still?
It's a pretty academic debate.
But in good Christmas spirit here is my input:
Niki Lauda callled him "genious on wheels" and in 2000 he was voted driver of the millennium by his peers. He only has 2 WRC championships but has had several memorable wins and won 4 Monte Carlo Rallies in 4 different cars.
I dunno if he is the greatest driver ever. Somehow I doubt that very much.
Not because he isnt good, but because the bar has been set higher and higher every year, and we have seen some pretty awesome drivers with even more championships under their belts and even more impressive merits on their CV.
So from a technical - speed/technique/stamina - POV he is probably matched and trumphed by quite a few other drivers.
As for legend status, he is probably still the main man.
Regarding NBR, I would think that he could beat most modern drivers there, simply because he knows this particular track like the back of his hand.
In a Porsche or any other car - I dont think that matters a whole lot to him.
One of his great fortés is his versatility - his Monte Carlo wins in different cars give a hint about this.
So my guess would be that he would own most other drivers on NBR in a Porsche, Ferrari or other car.
I still wonder if Sabine Schmitz or other NBR rats who spend most of their time there, wouldnt be faster still?
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