Crown

Board: Porsche - Boxster Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread

    Dec 19, 2007 5:43:31 PM

    easy_rider911
    Rennteam VIP
    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: awai08

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    I'm 100% certain you can find the -20mm sports suspension on the UK and Spanish Car Configurators. It's option code P17 but it's only available for C2, C4 (both as a cost option) and C2S, C4S (both as a no-cost option) PROVIDED THAT you order a manual car, a coupe (not a cab) and 19 inch wheels. Those 3 are pre-requisites. -20mm is also not available on the Targa models.

    Dec 19, 2007 7:55:27 PM

    dreamcar
    Rennteam VIP
    dreamcar
    Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom
    Posts: 8797, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 19, 2004
    Reply to: awai08

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    Quote:
    awai08 said:
    Hey -I just checked Porsche's car configurator in both the UK and Spain; I can't find the sports suspension as an option for either the 997s or GT3. In fact, PASM also is not listed as an option for the Boxster S on these sites. What am I missing?




    They are both on the UK car configurator. Look at "Options" and category "Engine" for both PASM (Boxster S) and sport suspension (997 S).

    Dec 19, 2007 9:47:49 PM

    awai08
    Pilot
    awai08
    Loc: bay area, CA , United States
    Posts: 381, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 4, 2007
    Reply to: dreamcar

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    Ah, I see them now. Thanks.

    So is the fact that the sport suspension is offered only on coupes based on anticipated target audience (marketing), or one based on inherent structural differences between coupe and convertible (engineering)? Weekend track racers choose coupes; folks looking for added fun choose convertibles. At the same time, I'm guessing that the stiffer the suspension on a convertible (and coupe also, but still more so on a convertible), the more noticable will be any chassis flex?

    I'm curious as to how the -20mm suspension rides in real world settings. Less travel usually means stiffer and less comfort, although past experience suggests that perceived comfort depends on many additional factors such as spring rate progression. Years ago, I had an Acura Integra coupe, a good handling car for its class. When I swapped out the OE stock struts for Koni yellow (adjustable) struts and progressive springs that lowered ride height by 3cm (1.3 inches), I found that *both* handling and comfort improved. That said, can the -20mm suspension accomplish the same feat in a similar manner? Let's just say that the benchmark for "comfortable" is whether or not the girlfriend or wife can tolerate the passenger seat for short trips.

    Dec 19, 2007 9:57:14 PM

    awai08
    Pilot
    awai08
    Loc: bay area, CA , United States
    Posts: 381, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 4, 2007
    Reply to: awai08

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    Oh -one other question. As some folks in this thread have suggested that PASM in sport mode is way too uncomfortable for normal driving, would any of you find beneficial if Porsche offered *three* settings with its PASM, say "sport," "normal," and "comfort?" Would such an offering be overkill or just right?

    Dec 20, 2007 12:09:37 AM

    vincesf
    Co-Pilot
    vincesf
    Loc: California
    Posts: 258, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 2, 2007
    Reply to: awai08

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    I don't believe it would be overkill, as choice is a good thing, but I am one of the very few who like PASM in the Sport mode. I generally ride in the regular mode, but have become accustomed to enjoy the Sport mode more and more.
    vincesf

    Dec 20, 2007 11:50:29 AM

    percymon
    Senior
    percymon
    Loc: Chester
    Posts: 765, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 23, 2005
    Reply to: vincesf

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    Don't lose sight of the fact that PASM isn't just two modes - here are a number on stages in each switch setting - i can't remember the exact settings but soemthing like 4 settings within sport and 5 in normal - all controlled by the ecu based on speed , steering angle, and feedback from the dampers on the roughness of the road.

    Dec 20, 2007 12:12:17 PM

    Porsche-Jeck
    Rennteam Master
    Porsche-Jeck
    Loc: Rheinland , Germany
    Posts: 4856, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 27, 2005
    Reply to: percymon

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    That's right, percymon Though it's software controlled PASM is not a digital thing
    This graph may help to illustrate how it works (it refers to the 997, but of course the logic is similar in a 987)

    Dec 20, 2007 2:33:07 PM

    easy_rider911
    Rennteam VIP
    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    You may find these links on -20mm sports suspension interesting:

    1) A thread I started when I was first trying to decide which suspension set up to choose:

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...&PHPSESSID=

    2) A thread describing what it was like to try -20mm as a passenger for the first time:

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...&PHPSESSID=

    3) Some analysis of the 997 suspension graph posted above by Porsche-Jeck:

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...&PHPSESSID=

    4) My reaction when test driving a PASM equipped C2S after owning a -20mm C2S for many months:

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...&PHPSESSID=

    Dec 22, 2007 9:43:37 PM

    awai08
    Pilot
    awai08
    Loc: bay area, CA , United States
    Posts: 381, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 4, 2007
    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    Thanks for the links and graph! Took me a while to read it all, but I'm glad to get up to speed on the great debate; the threads discuss almost all of the competing arguments I've been throwing back and forth. The graph speaks a thousand words. ...The result? Now I'm *really* anticipating delivery of my car! PASM or no PASM, I just wanna drive it!

    I was going to mention that maybe what PASM needs is an infinitely adjustable "manual" mode that first allows the driver to choose the center dampening point (kind of like a volume knob on a stereo), about which the computer can actively tweak the dampening. Then if desired, the active tweaking can be turned on and off, such that the system effectively becomes an adjustable strut system with remote access (and while I'm at it, maybe the front and rear dampening can be decoupled for understeer/oversteer). All the above said, and after reading the other threads, I do think such a system still would be a mild compromise so long as the other suspension components (e.g. springs, differential, sway bars) stay constant.

    Dec 27, 2007 8:38:14 PM

    Leawood911
    Rennteam VIP
    Leawood911
    Loc: Kansas, USA , United States
    Posts: 6924, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 29, 2006
    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    After I had driven my -20mm sports suspension Carrera S for many months, when I test drove a PASM Carrera S, I found the steering feel was so numb and lifeless BUT it all comes down to what you have become accustomed to.

    The problem with just fitting the parts (physically) is that your car will still think (electronically) that it has PASM fitted. How would you un-do that?? It's more trouble than it's worth.

    IMO, either you import a non-US -20mm sports suspension car or just get a GT3!!



    Easy - It is simple to bolt on some new shocks (PSS9 non PASM for instance) to lower the car, install a Quaife LSD all for about US$4500+-. I have been pricing this for my car. In my case I am not happy with PASM because it appears the suspension is sagging on one side or not reacting evenly. In normal mode my car pulls slighly to the left, in sport mode it tracks straight leading me to believe the shocks are not responding 'evenly' to the computer commands - at least in normal mode - perhaps an early indication of what time and miles do to PASM. At any rate, I am also seeing if Porsche can spot anything wrong to give them the benefit of my 46K miles. (I wonder what the odds are that they will switch me over to 20mm under warranty - not)

    Once the standard (non-PASM) shocks are mounted it is possible to initialize the computer and tell it PASM is not installed (i.e. 20mm) and there will be no computer faults. Just leave the wires that run to the pasm shocks for future installation.
    For me PASM is a not something I would want on a 911. Even the Vettes magnetic system sounds better. I bet the next 911 PASM system will be of this type.
    On a related note - I asked Duram at Durametric software to build a variable controller (potentiometer of sorts) for PASM cars so that more control could be gained. If more express interest he may build it.
    Cheers

    Certainly I would hate to pay NON US prices if I can just bolt on an LSD and some shocks. For the money saved one could add some real headers, mufflers, chip tuning, etc.

    Dec 27, 2007 9:55:06 PM

    easy_rider911
    Rennteam VIP
    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: Leawood911

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    That definitely sounds like a plan! I'm curious to discover how it turns out
     
    Edit

    Forum

    1. All 

    Boards

     
    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 4/17/24 7:16 AM
    GnilM     		781484 1798
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS     		442714 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM     		263423 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48     		261790 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA     		85912 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut     		5959 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    		 881546 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant     		819313 3868
    Porsche GT4RS 4/21/24 11:50 AM
    mcdelaug     		392448 1454
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry     		392289 1526
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut     		375414 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker     		369448 797
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 4/11/24 12:32 PM
    Ferdie     		290019 668
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    		 261921 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug     		240779 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel     		231302 101
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel     		221661 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug     		169927 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut     		141678 144
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA     		118226 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM     		109413 685
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		84639 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame     		75410 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		54256 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 3/16/24 9:27 PM
    WhoopsyM     		25493 237
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy     		21236 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie     		19596 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997     		16649 120
    AMG [2022] Mercedes-AMG SL 4/23/24 1:24 PM
    RCA     		13925 225
    Motor Sp. 24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018 5/25/23 10:42 PM
    Grant     		11301 55
    126 items found, displaying 1 to 30.