Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear) - Page1

Dec 1, 2007 6:12:01 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: TT Gasman

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
TT Gasman said:
There is always some new kid on the block trying to take down the king, ain't gonna happen. I predict this one will go the way of the NSX, stealth, 300Z and all the rest of the wannabes. The 911 Turbo is still the king.

Until the GT-R is released. Then the world has a new ultimate all-weather supercar. The king is dead. Long live the King.

Hopefully Porsche will take up the challenge and try to regain the title. Competition is good for car buyers.

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Dec 1, 2007 6:37:11 AM

fredb: Junior; Loc: france; Posts: 59, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 18, 2006; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
nberry said:
I believe Porschephiles have only themselves to blame. They allowed Porsche to become complacent because they bought whatever Porsche threw out at them. Why should Porsche change when they have the most profitable automobile business formula in the business.

As long as Porsche owners are happy with incremental performance, styling and pricing change, why not keep the dollars rolling in?

RIGHT !!! if all the porsche owners could understand that, we would have better cars for less money....

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Dec 1, 2007 10:02:19 AM

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , United States; Posts: 2217, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2003; Reply to: mp

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
mp said:

Nick - I assume you will be immediately selling your 430 since it is even slower and much more expensive than the 997tt?

Just what I was thinking???....eh, Nick?

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Dec 1, 2007 5:45:01 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: JP66

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
JP66 said:
Quote:
mp said:

Nick - I assume you will be immediately selling your 430 since it is even slower and much more expensive than the 997tt?

Just what I was thinking???....eh, Nick?

If performance/value was my only criteria in a car, I would have sold my 430 and bought a Z06 a long time ago. Ferrari does not sell its cars based on that formula. Porsche does and so does Nissan. See the difference?

Now tell me based on performance/value criteria which is the better car, the Nissan GT-R or the 997TT?

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Dec 1, 2007 5:52:19 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2866, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
JP66 said:
Quote:
mp said:

Nick - I assume you will be immediately selling your 430 since it is even slower and much more expensive than the 997tt?

Just what I was thinking???....eh, Nick?

If performance/value was my only criteria in a car, I would have sold my 430 and bought a Z06 a long time ago. Ferrari does not sell its cars based on that formula. Porsche does and so does Nissan. See the difference?

Now tell me based on performance/value criteria which is the better car, the Nissan GT-R or the 997TT?

I hate to say it, but the only thing I see better in the 997TT is the interior and the Badge

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Dec 1, 2007 5:58:03 PM

palenimbus: Expert; Loc: Baden-Württemberg, Germany; Posts: 1824, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2004; Reply to: rhino

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

And the exterior bien sûr!

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Dec 1, 2007 6:00:00 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: fredb

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Great performance, but once the excitement dies down, I think the Corvette Z06 will prove to be a better buy and better car (outside of possibly handling in bad weather) than this fat (3836 lbs.) and rather un-attractive car.

3836 lbs. If you are looking for sports-light feel in a car, look elsewhere. The dictum sitll stands that weight is the enemy of all sports cars, and this fat and slightly ugly car is a step further from even the 997 Turbo.

Am I alone to see the ugliness is pervasive, **INSIDE AND OUT**?? I've seen kings (Ferrari F430, Porsche GT2), and this ain't no king. It's even uglier than the Audi R8, which I didn't think was possible.

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Dec 1, 2007 6:01:58 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: cannga

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

"To my eye, it is a phenomal-looking machine, distinct from everything else."

ROFLMAO. My question is, just WHAT has the reviewer been smoking?

With respect to the Nissan's weight "issue," it's a big fat juicy one:

Corvette Z06 3130 lbs, 505 hp
997 Turbo 3444 lbs*, 480 hp
Nissan GT-R 3836 lbs, 480 hp

*My car, with PCCB brake and HRE P40 wheel

If I were interested in this un-attractive car, I'd wait until more tests of real production cars come in. It is fat, very very VERY fat.
I think the people who cross shop for the Nissan is potential used 996 Turbo, Corvette, and BMW M3 owners. The 997 Turbo is still the *pretty* AWD king.

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Dec 1, 2007 6:07:04 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: cannga

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
cannga said:
"To my eye, it is a phenomal-looking machine, distinct from everything else."

ROFLMAO. My question is, just WHAT has the reviewer been smoking?

Smoking pot, probably. That is not a good looking car.

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Dec 1, 2007 6:19:34 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
nberry said:
I believe Porschephiles have only themselves to blame. They allowed Porsche to become complacent because they bought whatever Porsche threw out at them. Why should Porsche change when they have the most profitable automobile business formula in the business.

As long as Porsche owners are happy with incremental performance, styling and pricing change, why not keep the dollars rolling in?

Nick, it's a little more than that. Porsche buyers decided that the 997 and it's variants are exactly what they wanted for the money. Of course we always want MORE for our money, but when faced with the decision to part with our hard earned cash, we did it because that was what we wanted.

If this were not the case, than 997 sales would be lower than 996.

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Dec 1, 2007 6:50:36 PM

turbonator: Newbie; Loc: NY, USA; Posts: 23, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

I've been waiting for Porsche to come out with PDK/DSG for over a year and now the GTR is coming out with a semi-auto gearbox. I must say I am very very tempted.

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Dec 1, 2007 9:05:01 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: turbonator

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

As mentioned, you might want to look at **THE WEIGHT** before you jump in. At least, the torque number vs. weight indicates that it will lack the explosiveness of the 997 Turbo wrt acceleration and will not feel nearly as RESPONSIVE in daily driving. (Imagine driving the 997 Turbo with 2-3 ADDITIONAL passengers in the car.) I may be the lone voice here but time will prove me right: This is a great car in many aspects but it has an insurmountable flaw, its weight. On purely price/performance standpoint, the Corvette Z06 will kill it, and the Corvette doesn't look nearly as unattractive.

Nissan: 480 hp @ 6,800 rpm. 430 lb-ft torque @ 3,200 - 5,200 rpm. 3836 lbs.
Porsche: 480 hp @ 6,000 rpm. 460 lb-ft torque @ 2,100 (truthfully, 3000 in real life) - 4000 rpm, 505 overboost. 3494 lbs, 3454 mine

Lastly, do you really want to be seen in a car with a face like this?

Quote:
turbonator said:
I've been waiting for Porsche to come out with PDK/DSG for over a year and now the GTR is coming out with a semi-auto gearbox. I must say I am very very tempted.

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Dec 1, 2007 9:08:18 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: cannga

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
cannga said:
Lastly, do you really want to be seen in a car with a face like this?

Nope.

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Dec 1, 2007 9:16:02 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Haha Alan, why do I think that you might pull the trigger some time soon? It's difficult in your case, since your present car is already a great one, there's obviously no REAL need to switch, and facelift is coming, but do watch the exchange rate. I am not sure if there won't be a hefty increase next year.

One more factor to consider is that, if I guess RC's hint correctly, next model year Turbo will not have the robust time-proven old engine, which is a minus IMO.

Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
Quote:
cannga said:
Lastly, do you really want to be seen in a car with a face like this?

Nope.

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Dec 1, 2007 9:22:22 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: cannga

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
cannga said:
Haha Alan, why do I think that you might pull the trigger some time soon? It's difficult in your case, since your present car is already a great one, there's obviously no REAL need to switch, and facelift is coming, but do watch the exchange rate. I am not sure if there won't be a hefty increase next year.

One more factor to consider is that, if I guess RC's hint correctly, next model year Turbo will not have the robust time-proven old engine, which is a minus IMO.

Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
Quote:
cannga said:
Lastly, do you really want to be seen in a car with a face like this?

Nope.

I want so much to pull the trigger. But I'm building a new house right now in Newport Beach. So, I want to avoid any large purchases for the next 2 years, unrelated to this project. Which, coincidentally, is when my warranty will expire and the facelift should be available.

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Dec 1, 2007 9:24:53 PM

AndyM: Senior; Loc: Durham, NH (UNH); Posts: 731, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2005; Reply to: cannga

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

I saw the new GTR at the Boston car show yesterday, and although not as ugly in pictures, that still isn't saying much.

If I was looking for a sports car in that price range, I'd take a used 996 Turbo over it any day of the week.

Plus I wouldn't want to deal with seeing teenage Fast & Furious fans humping my car everytime I walked out of the store

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Dec 1, 2007 10:44:22 PM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: AndyM

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

SHOOT! it was in boston?

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Dec 1, 2007 10:53:30 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: AUM

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

To be complete, doesn't revised number for 2008 Turbo make it a 4 second difference? Sounds small but unless my calculation is off, this translates to 175 meters, nearly two US football field lengths. A significant improvement and an eternity in 7 minute and 52 seconds

of racing, no?

Even at 2 seconds, it's nearly a football field.

Quote:
AUM said:
Quote:
Whoopsy said:

To use the famous nberry logic, the 997TT is a 2 year old design and by the time the GT-R goes on sale it will be 3 year old, the Nissan ought to be faster since it is newer.
Basically it took Nissan all of 30 years to catch up to 911 Turbo's performance. And the next 911 Turbo will blow it away.

Not if the improvement is the same as 996 TT to 997 TT (about two seconds at the Ring).

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Dec 1, 2007 11:01:48 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: cannga

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
cannga said:
To be complete, doesn't revised number for 2008 Turbo make it a 4 second difference? Sounds small but unless my calculation is off, this translates to 175 meters, nearly two US football field lengths. A significant improvement and an eternity in 7 minute and 52 seconds of racing, no?

Even at 2 seconds, it's nearly a football field.

Quote:
AUM said:
Quote:
Whoopsy said:

To use the famous nberry logic, the 997TT is a 2 year old design and by the time the GT-R goes on sale it will be 3 year old, the Nissan ought to be faster since it is newer.
Basically it took Nissan all of 30 years to catch up to 911 Turbo's performance. And the next 911 Turbo will blow it away.

Not if the improvement is the same as 996 TT to 997 TT (about two seconds at the Ring).

With 60 more horsepower, LSD, PCCB and Michelin Cup tyres. Not really that much of an improvement.

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Dec 1, 2007 11:03:25 PM

mp: Pilot; Loc: New York, USA; Posts: 361, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 4, 2006; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
JP66 said:
Quote:
mp said:

Nick - I assume you will be immediately selling your 430 since it is even slower and much more expensive than the 997tt?

Just what I was thinking???....eh, Nick?

If performance/value was my only criteria in a car, I would have sold my 430 and bought a Z06 a long time ago. Ferrari does not sell its cars based on that formula. Porsche does and so does Nissan. See the difference?

Now tell me based on performance/value criteria which is the better car, the Nissan GT-R or the 997TT?

Perhaps many years ago they sold cars based on performance/value but not any more.

There are many out there who can afford to buy whatever they want, but still prefer Porsches - not too flashy, daily drivers, reliable etc. If you've ever been to Monaco, you would have noticed half the cars parked in front of the Casino are Porsches - not Nissans/BMWs etc. Oh - yes there are also a few Ferraris/AMs.

IMO, there aren't many Porsche owners prepared to switch to Nissan.

I'm not yet convinced of the true performance of the GT-R (not that it matters). We'll have to wait for the final production cars to be tested. It does weigh too much.

I will agree with you on the Z06. It too would be my first choice if I were shopping for a cheaper Supercar. The car is an impressive achievement, especially given its price - aluminum body & engine/carbon fibre & fiberglass body/7 liter NA V8. Has won Lemans several times - no small feat. By the way, the newest version, with improved suspension calibrations hasn't been timed yet at the Ring.

I do think all this competition is good for the industry. It keeps the R&D going and customers demanding even more. Net result - better performance/value for all.

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Dec 1, 2007 11:28:44 PM

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , United States; Posts: 2217, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
nberry said:
Now tell me based on performance/value criteria which is the better car, the Nissan GT-R or the 997TT?

Now tell me based on performance/value criteria which is the better car, the Nissan GT-R or the F430?

Yeah, we know you didn't buy your F430 based on performance/value

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Dec 2, 2007 12:15:05 AM

Atzporsche: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Vancouver , Canada; Posts: 9118, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 7, 2005; Reply to: JP66

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
JP66 said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Now tell me based on performance/value criteria which is the better car, the Nissan GT-R or the 997TT?

Now tell me based on performance/value criteria which is the better car, the Nissan GT-R or the F430?

Yeah, we know you didn't buy your F430 based on performance/value

I bought my 2005 Ford Focus S based on performance/value. Hahhaa i think there is NO better car out there.
each HP cost me 97.4 CND!!

We ALL know Nick bought his F430 to drive around and be seen in it.. its even yellow.

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Dec 2, 2007 12:24:21 AM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: AUM

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
AUM said:

http://www.topgear.com/content/magflash/0108/

"The GT-R hasn't just moved the goalposts, it's obliterated them."

"For all-round ability, I have no doubt the Nissan is the best car I have ever driven."

"The GTR turns in beautifully, whether neutral or under brakes, and grips forever - slippery surfaces seem to bring out the best in it. Time after time I left Turner (911 Turbo) behind as my four-wheel-drive system and traction control worked better out of wet corners - it wasn't just the fact that I could get on the power earlier. It was about confidence. The Nissan really is something special, and you get the impression that while a master driver could wring every last ounce of performance out of the 911, your mother could do the same in the GT-R..........................Does the Nissan's ability reduce the driving pleasure? Not at all. You can turn all the systems off if you so choose, and it's still supremely well balanced, no doubt a delight for a racing driver on a track."

"A bellow from the engine, a rush of revs, a gigantic accelerative force on my neck, bang the GT-R into fourth. A killing gear if ever there was one."

"Were in R (mode) now, and weve hit 100mph in about 10 heartbeats. No official performance figure exists for that increment, but expect an 8 second 0-100ph time. Its fast, alrite - 60mph comes up in 3.5 seconds, the standing quarter in 11.7 seconds and it goes onto 197mph."

"The GT-R is all aggression on the outside. To my eye, it is a phenomal-looking machine, distinct from everything else. Very japanese and very hard."

"Driving these two cars back to back, its not long before you realise that the Nissan makes the Porsche seem old-fashioned. The GT-R is truly extraordinary."

"For all round ability, i have no doubt the Nissan is the best car i have ever driven. Its a solid car you can rely on when the going gets tricky."
__________________

Thx for posting.

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Dec 2, 2007 1:31:46 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: JP66

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
JP66 said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Now tell me based on performance/value criteria which is the better car, the Nissan GT-R or the 997TT?

Now tell me based on performance/value criteria which is the better car, the Nissan GT-R or the F430?

Yeah, we know you didn't buy your F430 based on performance/value

Using that criteria, I would take the Z06 and CT-R over the 430. Anyone who is honest with himself would arrive at the same conclusion.

BTW, given that Porsche does mass produce, incrementally changes styling, hp and price; performance/ value is their corporate image/branding.

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Dec 2, 2007 12:31:49 PM

Porker: Rennteam VIP; Loc: SZ , Switzerland; Posts: 7062, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 17, 2005; Reply to: mp

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Why are most of us, being Porsche lovers so threatened by this car?
Why to we feel the need to take our refuge into insults like 'ricer' or 'fugly car', etc...?

Why can't we as grownups respect this Nissan for what it achieves, although it's really not my kind of car, I respect it immensely, the same goes for a Z06, why would I feel the need to call it names? Just because it's faster than a car we all love? Just hope it pushes Porsche to make even better cars instead of feeling threatened by it..

It's a good car, face it...

My 2 cents, ofcourse

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Dec 2, 2007 2:22:33 PM

TWSLK55: Junior; Loc: Taiwan , Taiwan; Posts: 113, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 4, 2006; Reply to: Porker

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
Porker said:
Why are most of us, being Porsche lovers so threatened by this car?
Why to we feel the need to take our refuge into insults like 'ricer' or 'fugly car', etc...?

Why can't we as grownups respect this Nissan for what it achieves, although it's really not my kind of car, I respect it immensely, the same goes for a Z06, why would I feel the need to call it names? Just because it's faster than a car we all love? Just hope it pushes Porsche to make even better cars instead of feeling threatened by it..

It's a good car, face it...

My 2 cents, ofcourse

Agreed ,, Porker

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Dec 2, 2007 2:44:27 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: Porker

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
Porker said:
Why are most of us, being Porsche lovers so threatened by this car?
Why to we feel the need to take our refuge into insults like 'ricer' or 'fugly car', etc...?

Why can't we as grownups respect this Nissan for what it achieves, although it's really not my kind of car, I respect it immensely, the same goes for a Z06, why would I feel the need to call it names? Just because it's faster than a car we all love? Just hope it pushes Porsche to make even better cars instead of feeling threatened by it..

It's a good car, face it...

My 2 cents, ofcourse

I like to call a spade, a spade. As long as we are talking about cars and not someones' child, if it's ugly, I'll call it ugly. If they placed the GT-R body on the future 998 turbo, I would pass on Porsches for that generation, and maybe the next. If the 998 turbo weighed in at 3836 lbs, I would be very disappointed. Other than that, congrats to Nissan.

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Dec 2, 2007 3:24:48 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Porker

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
Porker said:
Why are most of us, being Porsche lovers so threatened by this car?
Why to we feel the need to take our refuge into insults like 'ricer' or 'fugly car', etc...?

Why can't we as grownups respect this Nissan for what it achieves, although it's really not my kind of car, I respect it immensely, the same goes for a Z06, why would I feel the need to call it names? Just because it's faster than a car we all love? Just hope it pushes Porsche to make even better cars instead of feeling threatened by it..

It's a good car, face it...

My 2 cents, ofcourse

One could actually respect the GTR even if it's a fugly ricer

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Dec 2, 2007 4:13:41 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2866, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

LOL

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Dec 2, 2007 5:38:31 PM

turbosteff: Co-Pilot; Loc: Hessen,Germany , Germany; Posts: 153, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 2, 2006; Reply to: rhino

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

This car reminds me of some cars at "pimp my ride" on MTV.

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Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

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