Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear) - Page3

Nov 30, 2007 10:15:25 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006

GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

http://www.topgear.com/content/magflash/0108/

"The GT-R hasn't just moved the goalposts, it's obliterated them."

"For all-round ability, I have no doubt the Nissan is the best car I have ever driven."

"The GTR turns in beautifully, whether neutral or under brakes, and grips forever - slippery surfaces seem to bring out the best in it. Time after time I left Turner (911 Turbo) behind as my four-wheel-drive system and traction control worked better out of wet corners - it wasn't just the fact that I could get on the power earlier. It was about confidence. The Nissan really is something special, and you get the impression that while a master driver could wring every last ounce of performance out of the 911, your mother could do the same in the GT-R..........................Does the Nissan's ability reduce the driving pleasure? Not at all. You can turn all the systems off if you so choose, and it's still supremely well balanced, no doubt a delight for a racing driver on a track."

"A bellow from the engine, a rush of revs, a gigantic accelerative force on my neck, bang the GT-R into fourth. A killing gear if ever there was one."

"Were in R (mode) now, and weve hit 100mph in about 10 heartbeats. No official performance figure exists for that increment, but expect an 8 second 0-100ph time. Its fast, alrite - 60mph comes up in 3.5 seconds, the standing quarter in 11.7 seconds and it goes onto 197mph."

"The GT-R is all aggression on the outside. To my eye, it is a phenomal-looking machine, distinct from everything else. Very japanese and very hard."

"Driving these two cars back to back, its not long before you realise that the Nissan makes the Porsche seem old-fashioned. The GT-R is truly extraordinary."

"For all round ability, i have no doubt the Nissan is the best car i have ever driven. Its a solid car you can rely on when the going gets tricky."
__________________

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Nov 30, 2007 10:40:08 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: AUM

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

A good challenge then for the next version of the Turbo. Better sooner with the 997 1/2 rather than the 998.

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Nov 30, 2007 11:08:46 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: AUM

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
AUM said:

http://www.topgear.com/content/magflash/0108/

"The GT-R hasn't just moved the goalposts, it's obliterated them."

"For all-round ability, I have no doubt the Nissan is the best car I have ever driven."

"The GTR turns in beautifully, whether neutral or under brakes, and grips forever - slippery surfaces seem to bring out the best in it. Time after time I left Turner (911 Turbo) behind as my four-wheel-drive system and traction control worked better out of wet corners - it wasn't just the fact that I could get on the power earlier. It was about confidence. The Nissan really is something special, and you get the impression that while a master driver could wring every last ounce of performance out of the 911, your mother could do the same in the GT-R..........................Does the Nissan's ability reduce the driving pleasure? Not at all. You can turn all the systems off if you so choose, and it's still supremely well balanced, no doubt a delight for a racing driver on a track."

"A bellow from the engine, a rush of revs, a gigantic accelerative force on my neck, bang the GT-R into fourth. A killing gear if ever there was one."

"Were in R (mode) now, and weve hit 100mph in about 10 heartbeats. No official performance figure exists for that increment, but expect an 8 second 0-100ph time. Its fast, alrite - 60mph comes up in 3.5 seconds, the standing quarter in 11.7 seconds and it goes onto 197mph."

"The GT-R is all aggression on the outside. To my eye, it is a phenomal-looking machine, distinct from everything else. Very japanese and very hard."

"Driving these two cars back to back, its not long before you realise that the Nissan makes the Porsche seem old-fashioned. The GT-R is truly extraordinary."

"For all round ability, i have no doubt the Nissan is the best car i have ever driven. Its a solid car you can rely on when the going gets tricky."
__________________

Porsche needs to do something about the underperformance of the 997TT. It is most embarassing that a sh**y ricer like the Nissan is faster

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Nov 30, 2007 11:54:37 AM

silvershadow: Senior; Loc: Zuerich, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 757, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 6, 2003; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
AUM said:

http://www.topgear.com/content/magflash/0108/

"The GT-R hasn't just moved the goalposts, it's obliterated them."

"For all-round ability, I have no doubt the Nissan is the best car I have ever driven."

"The GTR turns in beautifully, whether neutral or under brakes, and grips forever - slippery surfaces seem to bring out the best in it. Time after time I left Turner (911 Turbo) behind as my four-wheel-drive system and traction control worked better out of wet corners - it wasn't just the fact that I could get on the power earlier. It was about confidence. The Nissan really is something special, and you get the impression that while a master driver could wring every last ounce of performance out of the 911, your mother could do the same in the GT-R..........................Does the Nissan's ability reduce the driving pleasure? Not at all. You can turn all the systems off if you so choose, and it's still supremely well balanced, no doubt a delight for a racing driver on a track."

"A bellow from the engine, a rush of revs, a gigantic accelerative force on my neck, bang the GT-R into fourth. A killing gear if ever there was one."

"Were in R (mode) now, and weve hit 100mph in about 10 heartbeats. No official performance figure exists for that increment, but expect an 8 second 0-100ph time. Its fast, alrite - 60mph comes up in 3.5 seconds, the standing quarter in 11.7 seconds and it goes onto 197mph."

"The GT-R is all aggression on the outside. To my eye, it is a phenomal-looking machine, distinct from everything else. Very japanese and very hard."

"Driving these two cars back to back, its not long before you realise that the Nissan makes the Porsche seem old-fashioned. The GT-R is truly extraordinary."

"For all round ability, i have no doubt the Nissan is the best car i have ever driven. Its a solid car you can rely on when the going gets tricky."
__________________

Porsche needs to do something about the underperformance of the 997TT. It is most embarassing that a sh**y ricer like the Nissan is faster

Right!!!!!

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Nov 30, 2007 12:11:44 PM

palenimbus: Expert; Loc: Baden-Württemberg, Germany; Posts: 1824, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
AUM said:

http://www.topgear.com/content/magflash/0108/

"The GT-R hasn't just moved the goalposts, it's obliterated them."

"For all-round ability, I have no doubt the Nissan is the best car I have ever driven."

"The GTR turns in beautifully, whether neutral or under brakes, and grips forever - slippery surfaces seem to bring out the best in it. Time after time I left Turner (911 Turbo) behind as my four-wheel-drive system and traction control worked better out of wet corners - it wasn't just the fact that I could get on the power earlier. It was about confidence. The Nissan really is something special, and you get the impression that while a master driver could wring every last ounce of performance out of the 911, your mother could do the same in the GT-R..........................Does the Nissan's ability reduce the driving pleasure? Not at all. You can turn all the systems off if you so choose, and it's still supremely well balanced, no doubt a delight for a racing driver on a track."

"A bellow from the engine, a rush of revs, a gigantic accelerative force on my neck, bang the GT-R into fourth. A killing gear if ever there was one."

"Were in R (mode) now, and weve hit 100mph in about 10 heartbeats. No official performance figure exists for that increment, but expect an 8 second 0-100ph time. Its fast, alrite - 60mph comes up in 3.5 seconds, the standing quarter in 11.7 seconds and it goes onto 197mph."

"The GT-R is all aggression on the outside. To my eye, it is a phenomal-looking machine, distinct from everything else. Very japanese and very hard."

"Driving these two cars back to back, its not long before you realise that the Nissan makes the Porsche seem old-fashioned. The GT-R is truly extraordinary."

"For all round ability, i have no doubt the Nissan is the best car i have ever driven. Its a solid car you can rely on when the going gets tricky."
__________________

Porsche needs to do something about the underperformance of the 997TT. It is most embarassing that a sh**y ricer like the Nissan is faster

And for half the price as well

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Nov 30, 2007 12:55:59 PM

SimonH: Newbie; Loc: Lancs, UK; Posts: 49, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 21, 2007; Reply to: palenimbus

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

The article also says that when they lined the cars side by side, in fourth gear, and then planted the throttle, the Porsche slowly crept ahead.That means the the gtr is not faster, does it not?.I thought that with all the hype on this car, that the Nissan was going to wipe the floor with the 997tt, not true.There is going to be a lot of press/views on this subject, in the magazines over the next couple of months.The Nurburgring lap times, are under scrutiny as well, with various opinions on tyres,and starting and finishing points from all the info i can read from various sources.Looking forward to finding out exactly what this car can do over the coming months, as its stated that there are no official performance figures for the car yet.The car will probably be Pounds40k cheaper the a 997tt in the UK, and i think thats the biggest point to make.Its nearly 997tt performance for a lot less money.So, do you want a Nissan, or do you want a Porsche?.Ive heard that the Nissan is not going to be at all tuneable, and has memory in the ECU if any perameters are changed, boost, ignition, timing etc.So a lightly breathed on 997tt will creep away even more i would think.I would like to think that i am spending a lot of money on the right car next spring, and that is the Porsche, regards, SIMON.

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Nov 30, 2007 1:20:47 PM

eclou: Veteran; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 1182, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Porsche needs to do something about the underperformance of the 997TT. It is most embarassing that a sh**y ricer like the Nissan is faster

Since Porsche has not done it yet, many of us have chosen to do it ourselves.

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Nov 30, 2007 1:25:10 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
AUM said:

http://www.topgear.com/content/magflash/0108/

"The GT-R hasn't just moved the goalposts, it's obliterated them."

"For all-round ability, I have no doubt the Nissan is the best car I have ever driven."

"The GTR turns in beautifully, whether neutral or under brakes, and grips forever - slippery surfaces seem to bring out the best in it. Time after time I left Turner (911 Turbo) behind as my four-wheel-drive system and traction control worked better out of wet corners - it wasn't just the fact that I could get on the power earlier. It was about confidence. The Nissan really is something special, and you get the impression that while a master driver could wring every last ounce of performance out of the 911, your mother could do the same in the GT-R..........................Does the Nissan's ability reduce the driving pleasure? Not at all. You can turn all the systems off if you so choose, and it's still supremely well balanced, no doubt a delight for a racing driver on a track."

"A bellow from the engine, a rush of revs, a gigantic accelerative force on my neck, bang the GT-R into fourth. A killing gear if ever there was one."

"Were in R (mode) now, and weve hit 100mph in about 10 heartbeats. No official performance figure exists for that increment, but expect an 8 second 0-100ph time. Its fast, alrite - 60mph comes up in 3.5 seconds, the standing quarter in 11.7 seconds and it goes onto 197mph."

"The GT-R is all aggression on the outside. To my eye, it is a phenomal-looking machine, distinct from everything else. Very japanese and very hard."

"Driving these two cars back to back, its not long before you realise that the Nissan makes the Porsche seem old-fashioned. The GT-R is truly extraordinary."

"For all round ability, i have no doubt the Nissan is the best car i have ever driven. Its a solid car you can rely on when the going gets tricky."
__________________

Porsche needs to do something about the underperformance of the 997TT. It is most embarassing that a sh**y ricer like the Nissan is faster

If Nissan really did do that good of a job, then kudos to them!

As for Porsche, they better step up to the plate and make the new Turbo better.

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Nov 30, 2007 3:25:06 PM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 16151, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Porsche needs to do something about the underperformance of the 997TT. It is most embarassing that a sh**y ricer like the Nissan is faster

To use the famous nberry logic, the 997TT is a 2 year old design and by the time the GT-R goes on sale it will be 3 year old, the Nissan ought to be faster since it is newer.
Basically it took Nissan all of 30 years to catch up to 911 Turbo's performance. And the next 911 Turbo will blow it away.

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Nov 30, 2007 5:47:35 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
Whoopsy said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:

Porsche needs to do something about the underperformance of the 997TT. It is most embarassing that a sh**y ricer like the Nissan is faster

To use the famous nberry logic, the 997TT is a 2 year old design and by the time the GT-R goes on sale it will be 3 year old, the Nissan ought to be faster since it is newer.
Basically it took Nissan all of 30 years to catch up to 911 Turbo's performance. And the next 911 Turbo will blow it away.

Not if the improvement is the same as 996 TT to 997 TT (about two seconds at the Ring).

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Nov 30, 2007 5:54:52 PM

Texas911: Senior; Loc: Houston, Texas - USA; Posts: 766, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2003; Reply to: AUM

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Good news for Porsche fans because more competition is always better. And bravo Nissan for at least trying to build a super car. Toyota is too scared and so is Honda.

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Nov 30, 2007 5:58:31 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: Texas911

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

A first drive from AutoCar : http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...3.8-V6/229393/

What is it?
Well for starters, it's not the new Skyline GT-R. Instead it's referred to merely as the Nissan GT-R. The name Skyline is no longer applicable because, according to the GT-R's creators, this is an all-new 'multi-performance supercar' which just so happens to be faster than a Porsche 911 Turbo - but which also costs two thirds the price of Porsche's icon; Nissan GB anticipates a price of no more than Pounds55k when sales begin in March 2009.

It's also the most exciting car to come out of Japan since, well, the last GT-R, the R34 Skyline GT-R of the late 1990s. There are almost too many technical highlights to absorb in one hit. As ever the chassis is four-wheel-drive and, as before, the engine is a twin-turbo six-cylinder unit. But this time it's a V6 of 3.8-litres - the previous GT-Rs have all been straight sixes - and power and torque have risen accordingly.

On paper the GT-R develops 473bhp at 6400rpm and 433lb ft at 5200rpm, and it deploys its grunt via a six-speed semi-auto gearbox that has no fewer than 12 clutch plates, and manual paddle shifters on either side of the steering wheel. In reality, and despite the not-inconsiderable 1740kg kerbweight (thank the bombproof 140kg transaxle gearbox for that) what we're talking about is one of the fastest, most complex road cars money can buy.

What's it like?
If the basic headline figures aren't enough on their own to make your eyebrows twitch towards the heavens (zero to 60mph takes just 3.5sec and the top speed is "at least 194mph"), then maybe the most intriguing claim made by Nissan's engineers is the fact that "front seat occupants do not need to raise their voices to talk when cruising at a speed of 188mph.' The point is, yes, the GT-R is a monumentally rapid machine in a straight line, but it's also a refined, comfortable companion on a long journey. More like the world's hairiest GT car, rather than an out-and-out road racer.

Except there's rather more to the GT-R than an ability to cover ground as rapidly as possible. Nissan has developed this car to be as usable in the wet by a so-so driver as it is in the dry on the Nurburgring by Lewis Hamilton. The four wheel-drive system is so clever it makes rival systems appear crude by comparison, when they're not. Called ATTESA E-TS, it uses a massively complex transaxle arrangement at the rear and probably has sufficient computing power to bring down a Space Shuttle at 20 paces.

In practice it means you have more traction and stability across a wider range of surfaces than in any other competitor, plus a level of grip that will make even an experienced driver's eyes water. Nissan claims the GT-R pulls over 1.3g through a dry corner, and nearly 1.0g on a wet one. The steering, too, is deliciously precise, while the huge brakes are similarly mind boggling.

And what about the ride, always the one and only dynamic weakpoint with all previous GT-Rs? Difficult to tell whether Nissan has entirely sorted the GT-R's refinement considering we drove it only briefly on Japanese roads and mainly round a Japanese circuit, but the news is not exactly great. The GT-R is stiff in the extreme over rough roads, even with the dampers set to their most comfortable option. But given that Nissan still has over year to sign the UK GT-R's suspension off, you can only hope it listens to the critics now.

As for the interior, it makes you wonder just how heavily Porsche relies on its reputation to charge as much as it does for a 911 Turbo. The GT-R is as well made if not better than the Porsche inside, has much more space front and rear, more equipment to play with (including a flat screen display that imparts info abut everything from the wind direction to the level of torque at the front axle at any given moment), and a hugely bigger luggage compartment. True, the GT-R is still only a Nissan, and the 911 Turbo is one of Porsche's finest recent moments. But that's still no justification for adding nigh-on Pounds30k to the price.

Should I buy one?
In a word, yes, but if you want one you'll need to be quick. Nissan GB is only talking about bringing 600-or-so GT-Rs into the country each year and, as of last week, the first 250 had (unofficially) already been sold.

On this evidence, it's not difficult to see why.

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Nov 30, 2007 6:09:02 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
Whoopsy said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:

Porsche needs to do something about the underperformance of the 997TT. It is most embarassing that a sh**y ricer like the Nissan is faster

To use the famous nberry logic, the 997TT is a 2 year old design and by the time the GT-R goes on sale it will be 3 year old, the Nissan ought to be faster since it is newer.
Basically it took Nissan all of 30 years to catch up to 911 Turbo's performance. And the next 911 Turbo will blow it away.

Actually, the 997TT is a 996TT but with more hp. So its design is about eight years old.

A couple of years ago I posted on this board that the japanese were entering the high performance market and would be a threat to Porsche because their market and price point were similiar Porsche.

Well obviously they have hit a home run with the GT-R. Japanese quality, performance that exceeds the 997TT and at a price of a base 911. Hard to beat.

But 997TT owners do not dispair. The 997TT X51 or whatever will even thinks up a bit though at a cost more than likely to double the price of the GT-R.

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Nov 30, 2007 6:20:49 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

I believe Porschephiles have only themselves to blame. They allowed Porsche to become complacent because they bought whatever Porsche threw out at them. Why should Porsche change when they have the most profitable automobile business formula in the business.

As long as Porsche owners are happy with incremental performance, styling and pricing change, why not keep the dollars rolling in?

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Nov 30, 2007 6:47:06 PM

Dock (Atlanta): Pilot; Loc: Atlanta, Georgia; Posts: 386, Gallery; Registered on: May 1, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
nberry said:
I believe Porschephiles have only themselves to blame. They allowed Porsche to become complacent because they bought whatever Porsche threw out at them. Why should Porsche change when they have the most profitable automobile business formula in the business.

As long as Porsche owners are happy with incremental performance, styling and pricing change, why not keep the dollars rolling in?

Great points...I agree with you.

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Nov 30, 2007 6:54:21 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: AUM

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

I tend to believe Porsche made less of a technical mistake or lacking progress with the 997 TT, it rather indicates, at least to me, that they made a little mistake on the marketing sector. Judging on advertising, pricing and vehicle characteristics, they aimed at competitors as the Mercedes SL55, AM DB9/DBS or BMW M6. Funny that nobody complains about those cars' Nürburgring performance and hardly anyone assumes that they'd be on par with those "real" sportscars as the TT and obviously as much the GT-R seem to be. As an all-weather, all-duty weapon the 997 TT still outshines everyone else, the convertible being the epitome of versatility in automotive history to me (or find me another convertible offering the performance, versatility & consistancy under various conditions).

I guess Porsche hoped for the marque's and model's reputation to absorb any complains about the above mentioned performance. What remains mysterious to me is why such a demanding suspension setup was chosen for this particular model, being altered only in second year's iteration.

To me it sounds surprising how much emphasis people put into this Nürburgring performance (whether personally achievable or not). I keep back my judgment on the GT-R until veryfied test compare those two cars, I assume that Nissan's emphasis on (Nürburgring) performance might cause some drawbacks. Curious...

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Nov 30, 2007 7:14:22 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
nberry said:
I believe Porschephiles have only themselves to blame. They allowed Porsche to become complacent because they bought whatever Porsche threw out at them. Why should Porsche change when they have the most profitable automobile business formula in the business.

As long as Porsche owners are happy with incremental performance, styling and pricing change, why not keep the dollars rolling in?

True.

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Nov 30, 2007 8:09:48 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
nberry said:
The 997TT X51 or whatever will even thinks up a bit though at a cost more than likely to double the price of the GT-R.

I had to read that sentence 3 times before I realized that thinks ain't what they used to be.

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Nov 30, 2007 8:31:20 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

I already have my deposit down. I'm second on my dealer's list.

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Nov 30, 2007 9:01:23 PM

Jeannot: Expert; Loc: Currently in Hong-Kong , Switzerland; Posts: 1745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 13, 2005; Reply to: devo

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

whoever sells his 997TT here in Europe for this new uber-machine, please pm me, thanks

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Nov 30, 2007 9:03:35 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
nberry said:
I believe Porschephiles have only themselves to blame. They allowed Porsche to become complacent because they bought whatever Porsche threw out at them. Why should Porsche change when they have the most profitable automobile business formula in the business.

As long as Porsche owners are happy with incremental performance, styling and pricing change, why not keep the dollars rolling in?

Well, the GT2 is a change to the better at least

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Nov 30, 2007 9:30:35 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: Jeannot

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

The Japanese have done again, gr8 performance and at the right price. Neverthelss it's still a NISSAN

. It will never be a classis and it will not be worth much in a couple of years. Again the days the Porsches and Ferraris ruled because of their performance are over. Everything is fast now days. How much better do you think the 0-60 times can get? Or how much faster can a street legal get on the top end? So it's a matter of personal choice and how $$$$ one wishes to spend. I am happy to see the Japanese offering such an awsome car for such a value so that may open up some eyes and ears in germany. Nevertheless people that are P-cars die hard fans will always be loyal.

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Nov 30, 2007 9:32:21 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
nberry said:
The 997TT X51 or whatever will even thinks up a bit though at a cost more than likely to double the price of the GT-R.

I had to read that sentence 3 times before I realized that thinks ain't what they used to be.

Oops

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Nov 30, 2007 9:42:39 PM

Dock (Atlanta): Pilot; Loc: Atlanta, Georgia; Posts: 386, Gallery; Registered on: May 1, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Well, the GT2 is a change to the better at least

Yes...but at an astounding price.

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Nov 30, 2007 10:11:07 PM

mp: Pilot; Loc: New York, USA; Posts: 361, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 4, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
nberry said:
I believe Porschephiles have only themselves to blame. They allowed Porsche to become complacent because they bought whatever Porsche threw out at them. Why should Porsche change when they have the most profitable automobile business formula in the business.

As long as Porsche owners are happy with incremental performance, styling and pricing change, why not keep the dollars rolling in?

Well, the GT2 is a change to the better at least

Nick - I assume you will be immediately selling your 430 since it is even slower and much more expensive than the 997tt?

In all seriousness, performance wise, Nissan must be commended. Styling wise - they couldn't have designed an uglier car. The old 300ZX Twin Turbo was a nice design and the new 350Z is also nice - what the heck happened with the GT-R. It looks like some sort of bad kit car, IMO.

What about Lambo/Ferrari/AM/Maserati/MB? Do you really believe owners of these brands will care whether the GT-R is faster?

While performance will always drive a percentage of buying decisions, IMO most will buy a particular brand not just for performance but also for - prestige, design, brand loyalty, reliability, features, safety etc.

IMO, Ferrari appears to be the only manufacturer with a correct vision of the future - making lighter cars. This will require exotic ($$$) materials, helping to justify their higher prices.

Hopefully, Porsche will follow suit. Let's not forget, Porsches used to be lighter than their competition. If GM can make a 7 litre Z06 weigh 3200lbs for only $90kUSD(?), surely Porsche should have no problem shaving at least 300lbs from the 997tt?

Weight is the enemy!

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Nov 30, 2007 10:19:41 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: edz

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
edz61 said:
The Japanese have done again, gr8 performance and at the right price. Neverthelss it's still a NISSAN . It will never be a classis and it will not be worth much in a couple of years. Again the days the Porsches and Ferraris ruled because of their performance are over. Everything is fast now days. How much better do you think the 0-60 times can get? Or how much faster can a street legal get on the top end? So it's a matter of personal choice and how $$$$ one wishes to spend. I am happy to see the Japanese offering such an awsome car for such a value so that may open up some eyes and ears in germany. Nevertheless people that are P-cars die hard fans will always be loyal.

With an estimated 1500 units produced annually and the kind a cult following this car will have, I doubt resales will suffer. Dealers are already asking $20-40k over sticker in some places (Not mine

). Only dealers willing to send tech(s) to Japan for training and that are willing to install the proper diagnotics with dedicated servicing will be allowed to get the car in the first place. I predict that the GT-R will certainly retain a far better residual than any 997tt or 997 for that matter, excluding the GT3 and RS, of course. It doesn't take away from what a great car the 997tt is, but it should awaken Porsche.

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Nov 30, 2007 10:40:09 PM

haudimal: Pilot; Loc: EU; Posts: 319, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 30, 2007; Reply to: devo

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
devo said:
I already have my deposit down. I'm second on my dealer's list.

Deposit for a nissan?

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Dec 1, 2007 12:22:43 AM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 16151, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: Jeannot

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
nberry said:

Well obviously they have hit a home run with the GT-R. Japanese quality, performance that exceeds the 997TT and at a price of a base 911. Hard to beat.

I don't know about the quality part, last time I tried closing a Japanese made car door, be it Lexus or Infiniti or Nissan or Honda or Toyota, it's still sounded pretty hollow, without the nice solid 'thump' of a German car. Seems to me the Japanese are still using thinner gauge steel than the rest of the industry and I would not want to be caught in one in a car accident, plus the long term durability of the car.

The performance is definitely there, so imo the GT-R is quite the short term thrill ride. Cheap too.

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Dec 1, 2007 3:56:58 AM

TT Gasman: Co-Pilot; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 241, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2002; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

There is always some new kid on the block trying to take down the king, ain't gonna happen. I predict this one will go the way of the NSX, stealth, 300Z and all the rest of the wannabes. The 911 Turbo is still the king.

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Dec 1, 2007 4:59:00 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: mp

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

MP, a Z06 runs about 70-72K now. Thats not sticker as Chevy dealers typicaly offer 6k off

The GT-R sounds like a performance masterpiece. If it was not ugly to the eye, it would be more tempting.

Porsche can build a 2500lb gt3 easily, they do it all the time at Porsche Motorsports but its a bare bones car.

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