Nov 19, 2007 8:34:21 PM
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Whoopsy
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
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Nov 19, 2007 8:50:39 PM
- Turbo4ever
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Alex_ said:Quote:
Turbo4ever said:Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
Alex_ said:Quote:
devo said:
Anyway, with either the power bumped 505 or pre-bumped 480, you'd get another 25 hp. Add that same exhaust to the newer car and you get 530, right?
Right, assuming that part of the new facelift power isn't from a sports exhaust.
The Cayenne facelifts with DI all generate about 4% more power through DI alone. If the same is true for the 911 engine then there's your 505bhp without having to do much else.
Exactly! And, assuming that the boost hasn't been increased, this would translate into basic mods reaching 570-580 bhp. That's some serious power.
whats the boost in the current car now?
Off the top of my head,
Turbo = 1.0 bar (only in Sports Mode)
GT2 = 1.4 bar
GT2 also has the added power from redesign of the turbocharger, new expansion intake system and maybe help from the new titanium sports exhaust too.
I expect Porsche won't add any of these until the 998 though as they need to keep something in reserve.
a little bit confusing...
1.4 bar plus all those bigger turbines, intake, exhuast, only 50 more hp?
Nov 19, 2007 8:59:19 PM
- Crash
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Turbo4ever said:Quote:
Alex_ said:Quote:
Turbo4ever said:Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
Alex_ said:Quote:
devo said:
Anyway, with either the power bumped 505 or pre-bumped 480, you'd get another 25 hp. Add that same exhaust to the newer car and you get 530, right?
Right, assuming that part of the new facelift power isn't from a sports exhaust.
The Cayenne facelifts with DI all generate about 4% more power through DI alone. If the same is true for the 911 engine then there's your 505bhp without having to do much else.
Exactly! And, assuming that the boost hasn't been increased, this would translate into basic mods reaching 570-580 bhp. That's some serious power.
whats the boost in the current car now?
Off the top of my head,
Turbo = 1.0 bar (only in Sports Mode)
GT2 = 1.4 bar
GT2 also has the added power from redesign of the turbocharger, new expansion intake system and maybe help from the new titanium sports exhaust too.
I expect Porsche won't add any of these until the 998 though as they need to keep something in reserve.
a little bit confusing...
1.4 bar plus all those bigger turbines, intake, exhuast, only 50 more hp?
The turbochargers aren't bigger, just slightly modified with a bigger exhaust (is that right?) side.
Nov 19, 2007 9:24:13 PM
- atomic80
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Actually it's this:
997TT
1.0 bar in normal mode
1.2 bar in overboost (10 secs at a time)
997 GT2
1.4 bar in normal mode
It should be interesting to note that the Turbo has 502 ft of torque in overboost mode for 10 secs at a time but the GT2 has 505 ft of torque at all times.
I believe that the Turbo was modified, the intake manifold as well and the exhaust too. I know there were others too but those are the ones off the top of my head.
997TT
1.0 bar in normal mode
1.2 bar in overboost (10 secs at a time)
997 GT2
1.4 bar in normal mode
It should be interesting to note that the Turbo has 502 ft of torque in overboost mode for 10 secs at a time but the GT2 has 505 ft of torque at all times.
I believe that the Turbo was modified, the intake manifold as well and the exhaust too. I know there were others too but those are the ones off the top of my head.
Nov 20, 2007 12:07:26 AM
- Alex_997TT
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Nov 20, 2007 12:12:51 AM
- atomic80
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Guys, keep in mind that the 1.4bar max. in the GT2 is partly compensating for the expansion manifold intake cooling the air to mitigate thermal stresses to the variable geometry impeller-increasing the volume of a fixed quantity of a gas renders it less dense so increasing boost on the compressor side counteracts this to produce an equivalent power and torque output for a given air-fuel mixture. This means that 1.4bar boost with the GT2's intake setup brings back into the engine an equal amount of air (and fuel) as in the TT intake with its traditional resonance intake. Actually, Porsche advertises that this intake innovation is slightly more efficient for a given power output via the pre-ignition cooling effect-albeit negligibly so-the setup is designed primarily for thermal protection of the variable geometry impeller, not to placate the Greenpeace fruitloops. 
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
atomic80 said:
When you see the little up arrow that's when the overboost hits and you'd get up to 1.2 bars.
Not sure why you never saw that. It's definitely there though. I've seen it countless times.
I definately remember seeing 1.2 bar when on over-boost on my turbo; before I sold it.
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Turbo Al said:
Guys, keep in mind that the 1.4bar max. in the GT2 is partly compensating for the expansion manifold intake cooling the air to mitigate thermal stresses to the variable geometry impeller-increasing the volume of a fixed quantity of a gas renders it less dense so increasing boost on the compressor side counteracts this to produce an equivalent power and torque output for a given air-fuel mixture. This means that 1.4bar boost with the GT2's intake setup brings back into the engine an equal amount of air (and fuel) as in the TT intake with its traditional resonance intake. Actually, Porsche advertises that this intake innovation is slightly more efficient for a given power output via the pre-ignition cooling effect-albeit negligibly so-the setup is designed primarily for thermal protection of the variable geometry impeller, not to placate the Greenpeace fruitloops.
What he said...
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Turbo Al said:
Guys, keep in mind that the 1.4bar max. in the GT2 is partly compensating for the expansion manifold intake cooling the air to mitigate thermal stresses to the variable geometry impeller-increasing the volume of a fixed quantity of a gas renders it less dense so increasing boost on the compressor side counteracts this to produce an equivalent power and torque output for a given air-fuel mixture. This means that 1.4bar boost with the GT2's intake setup brings back into the engine an equal amount of air (and fuel) as in the TT intake with its traditional resonance intake. Actually, Porsche advertises that this intake innovation is slightly more efficient for a given power output via the pre-ignition cooling effect-albeit negligibly so-the setup is designed primarily for thermal protection of the variable geometry impeller, not to placate the Greenpeace fruitloops.
Don't know where you read that, Al, but whoever wrote it didn't get all his facts right.
The expansion manifold system reduces the combustion-air temp in the combustion chamber before ignition, allowing increased spark advance without "knocking", which results in more efficient combustion.
If the exhaust gas temperature at the VTG vanes really is lower as a result, then this would just be an incidental benefit and not the primary objective. The improved combustion does in turn allow the max boost pressure to be increased above the normal TT engine's value without overdoing the thermal and mechanical loads on the engine's components such as valves, pistons, rings, .... but this would not necessarily apply to the turbine and VTG vanes, because they are downstream of the exhaust valves.
According to press reports I have read, the combustion efficiency improvement under certain conditions amounts to 15%, which is a lot better than "slight" or "negligible".
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
andrea said:
From my source
Paris 2008
PDK 7 gears also with LSD
DFI
powerkit for current 997 turbo for next spring cancelled
this sounds much more like the successor of the mighty 996tt should have been right from the start. much more convincing than the actual version. will start thinking about it...
Nov 21, 2007 2:26:09 PM
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Marwan Arakji
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Nov 21, 2007 2:52:14 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Marwan Arakji said:
I went through this whole thread, and thank God i am not a recent 997 TT owner... i'd feel very cheated... extra bhp, DFI, bigger rims, and PDK!!! all so soon after the launch!!! porsche is getting more and more unpredictable to me...
See, I don't feel cheated at all.
You got to look at what you are getting now for your money. ie. are you getting one of the best cars known to man right now?! If the answer to that question is yes then who cares what's coming in X years time.
OK, so a new model *may* be 5-10% better, but I am pretty sure that a Turbo now will realistically fulfill ALL you road going needs. The only scenario that it's really going to hurt is if you are one of these people that has to upgrade each time a newer version comes out. Then depreciation is going to sting like hell.
With regards specifically to the 3 main extras:
1) I don't think PDK will be the exciting new toy everyone here is thinking it will be. I have driven DSG gearboxes on Audis and I got to say that most of the time I just left it in auto. There are no throttle blipping delights for the ears or anything; it's just very smooth and very efficient - if anything is makes driving a little duller and uneventful.
So if you prefer Tiptronic now then yes PDK is a jump forwards. If you prefer a manual now though I think you will still want to stick with it even when the PDK option is available.
2) 30bhp more, ok so you probably will feel this, but will the car be heavier anyway with the PDK gearbox?! Plus it's not like you really need more than 480bhp on the public roads. Nice to have yes, but 'need' no.
3) Direct Injection, OK so it saves maybe 10% fuel efficiency. Who buys a 911 Turbo that can't afford 10% more fuel costs?! And if you want to save the planet then don't buy a sports car!!
And don't forget you will have to pay extra for all of these things, ranging from a base increase for MY09 to the options themselves.
The only reason I would wait would be if I had a very late MY08 build slot, then waiting an extra month or so would be *perhaps* worth it.
Sorry; rant over...
Nov 21, 2007 5:38:10 PM
- MKW
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- Reply to: Marwan Arakji
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Marwan Arakji said:
I went through this whole thread, and thank God i am not a recent 997 TT owner... i'd feel very cheated... extra bhp, DFI, bigger rims, and PDK!!! all so soon after the launch!!! porsche is getting more and more unpredictable to me...
When you are 90 years old, there will be yet another improved , faster Turbo " coming next year " to annoy your grandson and his buddies.
Nov 21, 2007 6:29:26 PM
- palenimbus
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Nov 21, 2007 6:34:29 PM
- Turbo4ever
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Nov 22, 2007 10:19:04 PM
- andrew34
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Alex_ said:
I am sure I never saw more than 1.0 bar on my track day with demo manual Turbo. I had it on mile straights, and high speed bowls for hours.
Without sport mode on I didn't see more than 0.7-0.8 bar.
Odd.
Alex, I think you'll find that if you put a tip in manual in 5th at 2-2,500 revs and floor it, you'll see 1.2 bar.
Btw, ever do any pcgb track days?
Nov 22, 2007 11:02:26 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
andrew34 said:Quote:
Alex_ said:
I am sure I never saw more than 1.0 bar on my track day with demo manual Turbo. I had it on mile straights, and high speed bowls for hours.
Without sport mode on I didn't see more than 0.7-0.8 bar.
Odd.
Alex, I think you'll find that if you put a tip in manual in 5th at 2-2,500 revs and floor it, you'll see 1.2 bar.
Btw, ever do any pcgb track days?
Will do next year. Planning on putting some cup tyres on my old OEM spare wheels...
Nov 23, 2007 11:13:15 AM
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ALDO
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Nov 23, 2007 3:49:17 PM
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RC
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Alex_ said:
I am sure I never saw more than 1.0 bar on my track day with demo manual Turbo. I had it on mile straights, and high speed bowls for hours.
Without sport mode on I didn't see more than 0.7-0.8 bar.
Odd.
It is 1.2 bar max with overboost, GT2 has 1.4 bar max boost but it actually drops to 1.2 bar, actually the GT2 engine setup is similar to what the 997 Turbo engine setup would look alike if the overboost would be turned on all the time.
On Tiptronic equipped Turbos, you can see 1.2 bar pretty often, even if it is only for a short time. On manual cars, the 1.2 bar appears more seldom but it is there.
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
andrea said:
From my source
Paris 2008
PDK 7 gears also with LSD
DFI
powerkit for current 997 turbo for next spring cancelled
Confirmed by WHO?
Your information sounds nice but it actually contradicts pretty much what I heard from OUR sources.
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
andrea said:
From my source
Paris 2008
PDK 7 gears also with LSD
DFI
powerkit for current 997 turbo for next spring cancelled
Confirmed by WHO?
Your information sounds nice but it actually contradicts pretty much what I heard from OUR sources.
No problem, I like better what you know about
Nov 23, 2007 5:01:39 PM
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Super Darius
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Reply to:
RC
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
andrea said:
From my source
Paris 2008
PDK 7 gears also with LSD
DFI
powerkit for current 997 turbo for next spring cancelled
Confirmed by WHO?
Your information sounds nice but it actually contradicts pretty much what I heard from OUR sources.
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
andrea said:
From my source
Paris 2008
PDK 7 gears also with LSD
DFI
powerkit for current 997 turbo for next spring cancelled
Confirmed by WHO?
Your information sounds nice but it actually contradicts pretty much what I heard from OUR sources.
Nov 23, 2007 7:24:22 PM
- Turbo4ever
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Reply to:
RC
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
andrea said:
From my source
Paris 2008
PDK 7 gears also with LSD
DFI
powerkit for current 997 turbo for next spring cancelled
Confirmed by WHO?
Your information sounds nice but it actually contradicts pretty much what I heard from OUR sources.
come on, lets give us some info.
Nov 23, 2007 11:19:10 PM
- SoCal Alan
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Turbo4ever said:Quote:
RC said:Quote:
andrea said:
From my source
Paris 2008
PDK 7 gears also with LSD
DFI
powerkit for current 997 turbo for next spring cancelled
Confirmed by WHO?
Your information sounds nice but it actually contradicts pretty much what I heard from OUR sources.
come on, lets give us some info.
You'll never get RC to spill the beans. You have to read between the lines.
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